The "Mainstreaming" Experience: "Isolated cases"?

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AlleyCat said:
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i think there are two huge issues in mainstreaming.

the first is access to the curriculum. There are two ways to access the information in a mainstream class.

First, visually. That would mean that the student would need a highly quailified interpreter as well as pre-teaching and general oversight by a teacher of the deaf.

The second would be through listening. The student would need to be able to understand open set language, in noise, at an age appropriate level, without lipreading.

the second issue would be social. Inclusion is more than geography! The students would actually need to be part of the class, equal members, who are as valued as anyone else. If the child is unable to socialize and understand the other kids, they are going to struggle socially.

I agree on the second issue. That was an area very sorely lacking for me.

However, the first issue -- the 2nd part: being able to understand language without lipreading. Why? If you've got an interpreter, everything you're supposed to be learning in the class is already being conveyed to you.

that's why i said "or". If you are using visual language, you would use an interpreter. If you use oral language, you would need to be able to understand spoken language, in noise, without lipreading.
 
@ dd & Bebo: re: institutionalizing

I'm not saying that it's the same. But let's talk about young children. Everyone stresses the critical period...right? So what do you do with three, four, five year olds? What if you live in an area where ASL isn't an option? Do you send your young ones away (which would hurt you and make you look like you're just "sending your kids off") or do you keep them at home? What if you can't afford to send them away? Public schools aren't required to provide both ASL & Oral. They're not even required to give the best (in most states). "Adequate" is the standard.
 
Did your son goes on the school bus to his school or did he walk to the school close by from your home even if you are in the metro area?

I used to drive 40 minutes to get my son to a private school...now we live down the street. :D I drive him. No buses.

A lot of kids walk in the metro area. I'm further away now, but the general rule is if you live within a mile (or maybe it's two), you don't get a bus unless you have it in your IEP, which means you may ride that "short bus".
 
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TheOracle said:
@ dd & Bebo: re: institutionalizing

I'm not saying that it's the same. But let's talk about young children. Everyone stresses the critical period...right? So what do you do with three, four, five year olds? What if you live in an area where ASL isn't an option? Do you send your young ones away (which would hurt you and make you look like you're just "sending your kids off") or do you keep them at home? What if you can't afford to send them away? Public schools aren't required to provide both ASL & Oral. They're not even required to give the best (in most states). "Adequate" is the standard.

it's not about "looking bad" and a parent's feelings, it just isn't good for a child to be seperated from their family at a young age! Developmentally and emotionally, it would devistating to a young child to be sent away! Yeah, they will have dorm leaders, so they probably won't die...but so do orphanages. It would have long term emotional effects that could result in serious mental health issues.
 
Decrease of Deaf Potential in a Mainstreamed Environment

Wyatte C. Hall
Rochester Institute of Technology
Social skills are a necessary component of everyday life, yet when deaf children are mainstreamed, this is one thing they cannot be directly taught. The communication barrier between deaf children and their hearing peers can cause deaf children to develop anxiety or low self-esteem. Teachers and parents can also have a huge impact if they have distorted perceptions of deafness. The evidence suggests that decreased social interaction reduces what a deaf child can achieve in life.
Hearing loss affects many aspects of life, with many psychological ramifications and various effects on how well a person with such a loss functions in society or the world at large. A major portrayal of how deaf people interact among hearing people can be found in the mainstreamed educational setting, in which the majority of deaf people participate (Gallaudet Research Institute, 2003). It is generally common knowledge that deaf children face much more adversity than their hearing peers in terms of their educational and social development. As a result of this, their psychopathologies are impacted, sometimes in negative ways.
Communication and Social Interaction

Because of numerous economic, social and legal changes in the United States, placement of deaf students in deaf institutions has become less widespread, and mainstreaming is now the norm. This progression towards integration has resulted in much anxiety on the deaf children's parts (Gjerdingen & Manning, 1991). Good academic results are generally seen in deaf children who are mainstreamed, but they also show higher degrees of isolation and psychological problems when compared with students who associate with other deaf peers (Vostanis, Hayes, Du Feu & Warren 1997; Stinson & Antia 1999). One study that focused on the social status of deaf students compared with hearing students discovered that a large number of deaf students were rejected by their hearing peers as compared to only a small number of hearing children who, like the deaf students, also became social misfits (Cappelli, Daniels, Durieux-Smith, McGrath & Neuss 1995).
A critical part of the development of deaf children is their education, and through that, their social foundations are also built. During the primary-school development period, friendships are formed through common interests, school activities and sports. For these friendships to form, an obvious requirement is communication. For deaf children unable to utilize effective communication methods with the people around them, the difficulty in acquiring new friendships typically leads to a decrease in self-esteem.

Many children in general usually lack the social skills necessary for peer interaction. One major factor that has been identified in deaf children's social interactions is a repeated misunderstanding of how deaf children need to communicate with the people around them. Frequently hearing children mistake a request for information to be repeated as ineptitude or lack of interest as to what they were saying. The frequent need for physical contact as a way to attract attention, or facing the hearing peer when speaking can also go against social boundaries that hearing children have learned, which increases the chance of peer dismissal (Martin & Bat-Chava, 2003).

American sign language (ASL) is a very visual language. Communication usually involves one or more of these methods: touching, flickering the lights, and using waving motions, all to get someone's attention. Deaf children will also bang on tables or objects to feel the vibrations that come as a result (Harris et al., 1997). Their eyes are also easily fatigued because they must maintain constant attention to what is being said visually and this makes it easier for them to tune out. This is more of a problem for them than their hearing peers because simply turning away can cause them to miss out on information (Harris et al., 1997).

As a result of inaccessible communication, deaf students receive incomplete and inaccurate language input when communicating in English--they often leave out critical language elements needed for comprehension by another individual, usually the teacher. As a response, many students who are taught through the primary use of ASL would benefit much more greatly by using English as a secondary language. One particular study suggests that the low achievement levels that are sometimes seen are not results of learning problems related to deafness itself but are due to the poor communication between teachers and the deaf students (Cohen, Swerdlik and Smith, 1992; Harris et al., 1997).

Decrease of Deaf Potential
 
Some of those studies are dated. But I definitely think it can be a barrier. However, just because a child is deaf doesn't mean he/she can't learn social skills and fit in with his classmates. It really depends on the classroom, the teacher, the community, etc. I think most new teachers are really focusing on having a good classroom environment and are better equipped to handle mainstreaming (of any child). So the new trend in teacher education is to make them more informed...however...that doesn't mean the system isn't shitty for a lot of current deaf/hh students who are mainstreamed.
 
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that's why i said "or". If you are using visual language, you would use an interpreter. If you use oral language, you would need to be able to understand spoken language, in noise, without lipreading.

Gotcha. I missed the "There are two ways to access the information in a mainstream class."
 
If my son went deaf tomorrow, I'd probably try to keep him where he is. He has a small classroom, good teachers, and a great school. But he's in a private Jewish day school. If I sent him to a deaf school, then he wouldn't get Hebrew Ed.
 
@ dd & Bebo: re: institutionalizing

I'm not saying that it's the same. But let's talk about young children. Everyone stresses the critical period...right? So what do you do with three, four, five year olds? What if you live in an area where ASL isn't an option? Do you send your young ones away (which would hurt you and make you look like you're just "sending your kids off") or do you keep them at home? What if you can't afford to send them away? Public schools aren't required to provide both ASL & Oral. They're not even required to give the best (in most states). "Adequate" is the standard.

Some people have sent their young ones away. One of my friends started dorm life at 4 years old and she was so thankful because her family never learned ASL for her. She said if she was sent mainstreamed she wouldnt be where she is at due to having limited communciation with her family. She said if she had limited communication both at home and in the educational setting, she would be very depressed. That has happened to so many of us, including myself. Sometimes, it is not a bad thing depending on the circumstances. It would be hard for any family, yes.
 
*sigh*

but considering that a lot of deaf students have to go to deaf school far away from homes...isn't that not really the least restrictive environment? well, for parents, anyway.

LRE appliess to the educational setting. When a child is missing out on what's happening in the classroom, that is not LRE at all.

LRE has nothing to do with family life.
 
LRE appliess to the educational setting. When a child is missing out on what's happening in the classroom, that is not LRE at all.

LRE has nothing to do with family life.

Shel, in my experience, because of a high proliferation of negative family dynamics, the lre for these kids was the school for the deaf(meaning the residential component)where they flourished in more ways than one.
 
Shel, in my experience, because of a high proliferation of negative family dynamics, the lre for these kids was the school for the deaf(meaning the residential component)where they flourished in more ways than one.

From my understanding, the law regarding LRE was passed to place children with special needs with "normal" children at their home school. However, for deaf children, it is a double edge sword because it would mean they need to be placed in their home school with "normal" children and then they end up practically cut off from the lessons, language, communication, and information making it more restrictive for them.
 
From my understanding, the law regarding LRE was passed to place children with special needs with "normal" children at their home school. However, for deaf children, it is a double edge sword because it would mean they need to be placed in their home school with "normal" children and then they end up practically cut off from the lessons, language, communication, and information making it more restrictive for them.

Shel, while that is correct as to what the LRE means, I remember at the time years ago, the lawyers were having a hard time arriving at a decision. Of course, the final legal definition was/is from the hearing perspective. Did they ask us? Of course not! :P
 
From my understanding, the law regarding LRE was passed to place children with special needs with "normal" children at their home school. However, for deaf children, it is a double edge sword because it would mean they need to be placed in their home school with "normal" children and then they end up practically cut off from the lessons, language, communication, and information making it more restrictive for them.

Shel, while that is correct as to what the LRE means, I remember at the time years ago, the lawyers were having a hard time arriving at a decision. Of course, the final legal definition was/is from the hearing, medical perspective. Did they ask us? Of course not! :P
 
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Why didn't the deaf community object to this?

and yes, I can see what you mean about a 4 year old going to a dorm school and having language...but i mean what if parents do learn ASL and they are loving and supportive? but they're more secluded? or maybe they don't learn ASL, but they have home sign?
 
Deaf parents get offended when hearing parents suggest its best for their children to be taken away from them. I'd assume hearing parents feel the same way. I know the situations are different, but most people don't have children just to send them away. MOST people WANT their children near...society has changed. People usually have children because they want them - and they want to be parents.
 
Even for disabled kids who aren't dhh, it works better in theory then in practice. Believe me. I think mainstreaming works best for kids who have relatively common issues. It does seem like mainstreaming and inclusion are pushed by people who are CLUELESS about the lack of qualified teachers, (even sped teachers aren't generally trained in low incidence disabilties) about how bright kids who do not respond to minimal accomondations get lumped in with the low acheivers...
Good points.

... we are "nominally" included but we never go to prom, and we have NO friends in school and we are not even really included in any real community.
I'm on the fence about that statement. I've known some very popular deaf students who were in mainstream schools. I think there's more to socialization success than whether or not a student is in a mainstream program.

(As an aside, I was a hearing student who never went to the prom, never had a date, and had very few friends in high school; it's not just the special ed kids who fit that description. :) )


Not quite. Insistutionalization would be just warehousing them.
You beat me to it! :giggle:

...Remember, nowadays, virtually all Deaf Schools have a weekend home policy (except for MSSD, but that is a high school)
It's no longer the old old days when kids lived at school for months and months without seeing their families.
True. In the past, kids went home for Christmas and the summer only. Now, at least in SC, they go home every weekend in addition to school holidays.

But sometimes there are cases where it might be a good idea for kids to live at school.
I've heard many testimonials from residential school graduates that, after the initial separation trauma, flourished at school. Their classmates and the staff became their family.

Of course, there are the horror stories, too. It all depends on the school. They aren't all created equal.
 
Deaf parents get offended when hearing parents suggest its best for their children to be taken away from them. I'd assume hearing parents feel the same way. I know the situations are different, but most people don't have children just to send them away. MOST people WANT their children near...society has changed. People usually have children because they want them - and they want to be parents.

Huh? Nobody is saying that hearing parents should have their deaf kids taken away. The point was that some mentioned institutionalizing but it is not true for everyone.
 
Why didn't the deaf community object to this?

and yes, I can see what you mean about a 4 year old going to a dorm school and having language...but i mean what if parents do learn ASL and they are loving and supportive? but they're more secluded? or maybe they don't learn ASL, but they have home sign?

What makes you think they didnt?
 
Good points.

I'm on the fence about that statement. I've known some very popular deaf students who were in mainstream schools. I think there's more to socialization success than whether or not a student is in a mainstream program.

(As an aside, I was a hearing student who never went to the prom, never had a date, and had very few friends in high school; it's not just the special ed kids who fit that description. :) )
Not all mainstreamed deaf students were in special ed. Some were in the regular classes. Some were even in the honor classes.
 
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