Speech: A blessing or a curse?

[shel90]

Okay. I'll say this as a hearing person who has spoken to (er?) deaf and people of oral languages that weren't my L1.

1. When I dated a guy who was French (meow), I appreciated his translation and us sharing words> Since we were in an English speaking environment, he appreciated my patience! There was something to be said for him parsing out the words in English or me struggling to find a root Latin word so we could conjugate a verb or something.

When I have someone struggle in English to pay me a compliment when they could say it in Spanish, I extra appreciate it: they were trying to honor me by saying it in my L1.

2. Just like Deaf want hearing to sign for them (if they can), hearing people like to hear voices. It connects with emotion. It's *our* language.

I think your family loves you and wants to hear your voice because that's what they know. There's a neurological response that's activated when they hear your voice. I think if you can do some ASL and voice (both groups) you'll find your own (new) niche. Maybe as you teach them ASL you can be voice on but when they want to talk to you they have to do it voice off?

There are many deaf people who were unable to develop speech skills and dont have access to spoken English hence the use of ASL. So if a family is forcing a deaf child to develop speech skills but the child struggles with it, that's bordering on abuse.

 

[BecLak]

Wirelessly posted

I have always considered my family first hence the reason I have to use speech when supporting my husband in his work. Question remains that the very fact that I am requesting these accomdations because they are important to me shouldn't that be reason enough for my family to comply? They have been very supportive of me in many ways already in regardness to my deafness, but learning not so long ago that I was more than just a little hard of hearing as they understood it, it will take just a little more time for them to realise how it really is for me. They will come around once they can understand it somewhat. I don't expect them to understand 100 percent as they are all hearing afterall. Perhaps I should take it a little slower for them and gradually make changes. This debate arose from my going voice off for a whole day. r

 

[naisho]

Someone pointed out to me that it was not the same case for them in their family, and I realize that it is different for different cultures.

BecLak, in ways I have thought we are similar, because we are from an ethnic culture that places a higher impact on the foundations given in the culture. We seem to follow the functions of asian families. For me, personally, I know if I decided to go completely hearing off one day, and that I know I can (because I've done it before), in front of my family, whom are all hearing - it would anger and make them uneasy with my choice.

It is the same principle that places a higher emphasis on construction in the family.. Why it seems it is ok for many asian families to have their children living at home after the age of 18, but this is traditionally not encouraged in families of certain cultures. Although you are a mother of your own and I think you have a right to form what you want between your children.

Some of these situations are iffy at best. I can understand if they are pulling the "you are hearing" card and don't let you become Deaf by being a powerhouse that judges what you can and can't do.. but that is something I'm setting aside from this situation.

There is way too much to it, but simply there is something in probably more than just asian cultures that places a higher priority into families than acquaintances, friends and random people out there. I had a feeling this was going on when I first posted in here. :P

 

[rebeccalj]

Unfortunately, these situations are always about what is easiest for them. It has always puzzled me that the hearing want to label the D/deaf as having a disability, but then they also expect the D/deaf to accommodate them rather than the other way around. Ironic, ain't it?

Very ironic! I think going 'voice off,' after accommodating hearies for so many years, reinforces the 'disability.' Makes it a reality that may have been ignored.

Going 'voice off' might equate with 'now you aren't like us.' Emphasizes the difference instead of the similarity.

It also might equate with Deaf being less than a hearie so to go 'voice off' means the person is now, somehow, less whereas before, as a speaking Deaf person, there was a sense of equality.

 

[rebeccalj]

After 25 years of not living like a Deaf person, I became Deaf after learning about Deaf culture from one of my ASL classes. I am sure Becklack is like me...we got fed up with trying to fit in the hearing world without any help from them.

^^^^^^ This!

Sometimes it takes others longer to find their identity. An identity that works for who *we* are as opposed to what everyone else wants us to be. Becklak is no different than many thousands of other Deaf/deaf/HoH people who weren't simply born with a confidence of being Deaf/deaf/HoH. I know I wasn't but this is common when you are born into a hearie family. You are taught to accommodate for them from the get go. Not the other way around. As we get older, and wiser, and learn more about ourselves, this becomes unacceptable and identification with our Community means everything.

 

[flip]

No one complained because that's how they all did it.

Actually, we're not sure how language developed. And there is nothing that suggests primitive gestures were anything like a full blown language.

Who told you that?

Quote by Nicole Krauss: "The first language humans had was gestures. There..."

"The first language humans had was gestures. There was nothing primitive about this language that flowed from people’s hands, nothing we say now that could not be said in the endless array of movements possible with the fine bones of the fingers and wrists. The gestures were complex and subtle, involving a delicacy of motion that has since been lost completely."

 

[jillio]

Okay. I'll say this as a hearing person who has spoken to (er?) deaf and people of oral languages that weren't my L1.

1. When I dated a guy who was French (meow), I appreciated his translation and us sharing words> Since we were in an English speaking environment, he appreciated my patience! There was something to be said for him parsing out the words in English or me struggling to find a root Latin word so we could conjugate a verb or something.

When I have someone struggle in English to pay me a compliment when they could say it in Spanish, I extra appreciate it: they were trying to honor me by saying it in my L1.

2. Just like Deaf want hearing to sign for them (if they can), hearing people like to hear voices. It connects with emotion. It's *our* language.

I think your family loves you and wants to hear your voice because that's what they know. There's a neurological response that's activated when they hear your voice. I think if you can do some ASL and voice (both groups) you'll find your own (new) niche. Maybe as you teach them ASL you can be voice on but when they want to talk to you they have to do it voice off?

Why is it up to the deaf person to accommodate the needs or wants of the hearing?

That same neurological response is triggered by signing with a familiar person. It is the faliliarity that triggers the response, not the mode of communication.

 

[naisho]

Who told you that?

Quote by Nicole Krauss: "The first language humans had was gestures. There..."

"The first language humans had was gestures. There was nothing primitive about this language that flowed from people’s hands, nothing we say now that could not be said in the endless array of movements possible with the fine bones of the fingers and wrists. The gestures were complex and subtle, involving a delicacy of motion that has since been lost completely."

This is true, the first language was effectively hypothesized as gestural and haptic language. Even if you follow the phylogeny of animals, primates do the same thing.. it is a form of communication using gestures. Speech followed after due to various hypothesis for why speech became beneficial in certain instances.

 

[Beach girl]

It's interesting how some ethnic groups today still use gestures a lot more when they talk than do others. My Italian dad used to joke that if you tied his hands behind his back, he wouldn't be able to talk. When he got together with his brothers and sister and cousins, the hands were flying!

I'm the same way. I gesture a lot when I talk. Not as much as he did, but the tendency is definitely there.

 

[Hohtopics]

There are many deaf people who were unable to develop speech skills and dont have access to spoken English hence the use of ASL. So if a family is forcing a deaf child to develop speech skills but the child struggles with it, that's bordering on abuse.

Sorry to hear about it. But in this case, the deaf person apparently already had very good speech but decides not to use it after doing so for many years. Apparently, she could be learning from experience that moderation is probably the key there.

 

[AlleyCat]

Sorry to hear about it. But in this case, the deaf person apparently already had very good speech but decides not to use it after doing so for many years. Apparently, she could be learning from experience that moderation is probably the key there.

That would be her choice, wouldn't it?

The same type of choices you want others to have and insist that we here don't give. Hypocrisy hurts, doesn't it?

 

[Hohtopics]

It's interesting how some ethnic groups today still use gestures a lot more when they talk than do others. My Italian dad used to joke that if you tied his hands behind his back, he wouldn't be able to talk. When he got together with his brothers and sister and cousins, the hands were flying!

I'm the same way. I gesture a lot when I talk. Not as much as he did, but the tendency is definitely there.

Underneath the humorous tone of the past, you brought up a good point. Cause I think it does show that different people or families do have different strength, traits or characteristics. Whereas some people or families are naturally more expressive, personable, more willing to make facial or eye contact when communicating or are more visual. To the point that I think they sometime also play a factor on how the deaf child is raised.

That for someone growing up profoundly deaf with some of that "deaf accent" during the "pre-CI" days, I always had some people that pretty much "understood every word I said". Whereas there were also others that didn't understand me as well. And that it was usually the more expressive, personable, visual, those more willing to make eye / facial contacts not to also mention often sharp were the ones that I communicated better with. And those that were often more "guarded", felt more comfortable talking to others "through the sides of their mouth" or were more "auditory" (i.e. in another word if your speech were a little off, they were less likely to pick up other "cues") were the ones I usually had more difficulty communicating with. Not always, there were sometime some overlaps, but that was the general consensus.

And I've observed that the above could also sometime apply to those with foreign accents as well.

 

[dereksbicycles]

Those people are lucky that they can use their voice well. I know I can't. I have to work on that.

If you don't want to use your voice, that is your choice. Just be yourself.

 

[jillio]

Wirelessly posted

I have always considered my family first hence the reason I have to use speech when supporting my husband in his work. Question remains that the very fact that I am requesting these accomdations because they are important to me shouldn't that be reason enough for my family to comply? They have been very supportive of me in many ways already in regardness to my deafness, but learning not so long ago that I was more than just a little hard of hearing as they understood it, it will take just a little more time for them to realise how it really is for me. They will come around once they can understand it somewhat. I don't expect them to understand 100 percent as they are all hearing afterall. Perhaps I should take it a little slower for them and gradually make changes. This debate arose from my going voice off for a whole day. r

Absolutely it should.

 

[jillio]

Who told you that?

Quote by Nicole Krauss: "The first language humans had was gestures. There..."

"The first language humans had was gestures. There was nothing primitive about this language that flowed from people’s hands, nothing we say now that could not be said in the endless array of movements possible with the fine bones of the fingers and wrists. The gestures were complex and subtle, involving a delicacy of motion that has since been lost completely."

It is generally accepted that non-verbal communication in the form of manual language pre-dates all forms of spoken language.

 

[jillio]

It's interesting how some ethnic groups today still use gestures a lot more when they talk than do others. My Italian dad used to joke that if you tied his hands behind his back, he wouldn't be able to talk. When he got together with his brothers and sister and cousins, the hands were flying!

I'm the same way. I gesture a lot when I talk. Not as much as he did, but the tendency is definitely there.

Generally, the ethnicities that incorporate a lot of gesture, facial expression, and non-verbal body language are those whose society in general is accepting of displays of intense emotions.

 

[jillio]

Sorry to hear about it. But in this case, the deaf person apparently already had very good speech but decides not to use it after doing so for many years. Apparently, she could be learning from experience that moderation is probably the key there.

Who exactly, are you to make such a decision or an assumption regarding another's comfort level with communication?

 

[shel90]

Sorry to hear about it. But in this case, the deaf person apparently already had very good speech but decides not to use it after doing so for many years. Apparently, she could be learning from experience that moderation is probably the key there.

So what? Let that deaf person become 100% mute. How does it impact your life?

If that deaf person finds that being mute isnt all that cracked up to be, then that deaf person will figure it out for him/herself. If it proves to be all cracked up to be, then it was his/her destinity. Not ours.

 

[Hohtopics]

So what? Let that deaf person become 100% mute. How does it impact your life?

If that deaf person finds that being mute isnt all that cracked up to be, then that deaf person will figure it out for him/herself. If it proves to be all cracked up to be, then it was his/her destinity. Not ours.

Alright, I meant well though. And apologize if my saying that she wanted to go in a certain direction cause of this forum came across as being insensitive to some. And wish her luck in whatever direction she plans to take!

 

[BecLak]

Alright, I meant well though. And apologize if my saying that she wanted to go in a certain direction cause of this forum came across as being insensitive to some. And wish her luck in whatever direction she plans to take!

Hohtopics, I would like to respond with an 'apology accepted' but from what I see you are not really 'taking back' what you wrote, you are just replying to some heat you are receiving. You are entitled to your opinion and values and I am entitled to mine. Frankly, I don't think we will ever see 'eye to eye' so let's leave it at that. In all fairness, however, thank you for your well wishes.