Social Issues in School & Identity Crisis

Iam an adult...40 years old and I work with hearing people who do not use ASL. I am totally isolated during social events at my job. I know that no matter how hard I try, I will never understand everyone in a group setting which makes it difficult for me to participate in social situations unless it is on an one on one basis. However, the good thing is that I got this job with the attitude that my co workers will never be my friends and that I have many friends in the Deaf community whom I can socialize with after work. That's why I Sked about sending your daughter to a deaf school?
 
SSnow98 said:
Hi! I am 17 and a junior in high school. School is hard. I experience a lot of what your daughter goes through so I know how she feels. I don't ever hate being Deaf but is a burden sometimes! I am mainstreamed but went to TSD for a semester and loved it! I am going back next year as a day student. At a Deaf school, it is easier to belong. If she needs a friend that totally understands, let me know! I know how much when I started high school I had someone to tell me what to expect.
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Hi there friend! Glad you responded!!!!!!! What SSnow says is 100% true..... At a deaf school it IS easier to belong. There's no guarentees, but at the same time the social issues at deaf school are not as bad as a mainstream school. Remember what it was like to be a teen and how you felt like you didn't fit in? High school sucks for almost everyone.... Imagine how bad mainstream high school is for minority kids?!?!? It's a thousand times worse!
 
It's amazing (or maybe not) how with time passage (30+ years for me), the experiences of the Jr High and HS students mentioned in this thread are exactly the same as mine were. The only difference is the internet and the ability to more easily connect with other deaf kids. I didn't meet another deaf person until I went to college- minus one other kid in elementary school a grade lower than me and we met...once that's it.
 
If she is still in contact with deaf people she met through the deaf camp, she could get a Visual phone to talk with them after getting their phone numbers. That way she could have a good friend to talk to after school or maybe help each other with school work.

I use Sorenson but you can find one by google "VRS Deaf". They are free but internet access is required.
 
DeafDucky said:
It's amazing (or maybe not) how with time passage (30+ years for me), the experiences of the Jr High and HS students mentioned in this thread are exactly the same as mine were. The only difference is the internet and the ability to more easily connect with other deaf kids. I didn't meet another deaf person until I went to college- minus one other kid in elementary school a grade lower than me and we met...once that's it.
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Not that amazing..... I talk with a HOH woman who is almost old enough to be my grandma (she's only 15 years younger then my actual grandma as a matter of fact) and her experience was IDENTICAL as to mine. I remember jillo saying that she hears the same things from her current clients as she heard from the kids who she talked with, who wore body worn aids and attended schools for the Deaf.
The HOH experience is STILL the same....Sure some kids with CIs may get up to really good listening levels.... but they still are at best HOH....which isn't even close to being hearing.
 
Buffalo said:
If she is still in contact with deaf people she met through the deaf camp, she could get a Visual phone to talk with them after getting their phone numbers. That way she could have a good friend to talk to after school or maybe help each other with school work.

I use Sorenson but you can find one by google "VRS Deaf". They are free but internet access is required.
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Visual phones are awesome, and it's a part of the puzzle... but it really doesn't replace physical contact.......It's great that she has Deaf camp experience (and pretty much all dhh kids SHOULD take advantage of that if possible) but maybe MSSD or WPSD might be a really important part of the puzzle for her to come out of her shell.......I think she might still be geneticly shy, but it also seems like she's deaf shy if that makes any sense..... shy from not having a lot of confidence being in a mainstream situation.....and that's tough for a dhh kid! Very tough!!!! And maybe attending a deaf school or a program might reveal a whole new kid!!!!!
http://www.maryhare.org.uk/cache/downloads/60rxr4yld9s88ow4cgc04wcw4/BATOD article P Gale.pdf
Couple of quotes from that link:
"‘I didn’t have
many friends in my old school due to me being
deaf and I couldn’t keep up with the speed of the
discussion that was taking place.’ All the circle time
in the world will not help a young person who feels
fundamentally different and alone."
‘I didn’t have many friends.’ The lack of real
friendships is a major issue for these young people
and one which we ignore at our peril. Ask the deaf
children you work with how many birthday parties
they have been to this year."
"I’ll leave you with the words of a 14-year-old girl that I
found the most moving of all the responses I received.
I quote her, not to blow the trumpet of my school, but
because of the aching sadness her words show in the
placement which did not work out. She says, ‘I didn’t
have any friends and was very lonely because I was
deaf and kept getting bullied by people saying deaf
names. I didn’t have confidence to make friends with
other people because I was too scared they wouldn’t
accept me or like me. At Mary Hare I like to do lots of
activity with my friends and being able to socialise
with them and talk about girl things like I couldn’t do
before.’ A significant challenge lies in her words. She’s
not asking for the world, just to have some friends and
be able to talk about ‘girl things’.
What do I conclude from all of this? Well, I’m not
suggesting that all deaf pupils should be returned to
special schools. But I am suggesting that there is some
practice out there which is not as good as it could be."
 
Quick question.... how oral is she? Another piece of the puzzle may be a MAINSTREAM camp. I attended an AMAZING all girls YMCA summer camp as a teen...It was the hearing version of a residential school....it wasn't just a camp........I was the only deaf kid at the camp, but it really did play a HUGE part in me coming out of my shell.... Even today I think of it as "home"....and I am still in touch with SO many of my friends from back then. Check it out.... HIGHLY recommended! http://camp-nokomis.mvymca.org/
 
She's actually very oral, very easily understood. Though I think most kids don't even know how well she speaks because she is so quiet. Even the school staff is surprised when I say how different she is in school compared at home (she is very outgoing and talkative at home, but usually only speaks if spoken to in school).

Unfortunately, her hearing isn't as good as her speech reflects, so I think people assume she hears better than she does. She uses a combination of hearing and lip reading to converse, so it gets overwhelming when she is in anything more than a one on one situation. And I would imagine she spends all her time trying to hear what people are saying that she doesn't have time to contribute anything herself, making her seem like she is not interested in friends.

I've tried putting her in activities with just hearing kids, like sports, but she feels she can't follow along, gets discouraged, and quits.

I am now trying to see if there are any other girls in her grade who have gone to the guidance counselor for social issues to see if they can put the girls together so they can practice social skills together (and maybe make a friend)...
 
MomToDeafChild said:
She's actually very oral, very easily understood. Though I think most kids don't even know how well she speaks because she is so quiet. Even the school staff is surprised when I say how different she is in school compared at home (she is very outgoing and talkative at home, but usually only speaks if spoken to in school).

Unfortunately, her hearing isn't as good as her speech reflects, so I think people assume she hears better than she does. She uses a combination of hearing and lip reading to converse, so it gets overwhelming when she is in anything more than a one on one situation. And I would imagine she spends all her time trying to hear what people are saying that she doesn't have time to contribute anything herself, making her seem like she is not interested in friends.

I've tried putting her in activities with just hearing kids, like sports, but she feels she can't follow along, gets discouraged, and quits.

I am now trying to see if there are any other girls in her grade who have gone to the guidance counselor for social issues to see if they can put the girls together so they can practice social skills together (and maybe make a friend)...
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*jaw drop* You do get it!!! Lots of points for you MomtoDeafChild!!! At least you totally understand and get it!!!! We don't have a member of the Carol Flexor Fan Club here! (aka All I Need to Do is Get My Kid Hearing and Talking and They Will Have a Typical Normal Life) If Jill was here, she'd be blown away!
It's just that there's a lack of deaf specific social supports right? Is she a completely different kid at deaf camp?
This is very common.....don't get me wrong...MANY kids with all sorts of special needs struggle socially, even the kids who do well academicly. It's one of the things they don't tell you about......It's also something you don't understand until you actually experiance it.
Social issues are TOUGH. You have to wonder if the experts and pro inclusionists really understand how hard social things are in middle/high school. It goes far beyond being the unpopular kid....it's more like most of the time hearing kids don't really care about interacting with dhh kids all that much... It's hard to go deeper socially with hearing kids. And I mean high school kids can be SO superficial anyway. And the thing is.... social stuff IS a really big part of the puzzle with life success......it really shouldn't be swept under the rug...and I know you know this, and so do many others here. I know I sound like a broken record, but just repeating it for any lurkers.
I'm wondering..... Could you send her to the Deaf camp at WPSD this summer to see if she might like it there enough to attend for high school? They DO have a gifted program.....
And then there's MSSD which serves all sorts of kids including very strongly academic kids. Actually I wonder.......Here's my thinking.... She doesn't seem too badly off. You don't have to worry too much about grades or actual academic achievement. You know...good grades and strong academic achievement are important, but they're also very much a dime a dozen... Know what I mean? She's demonstrated she can do well academicly (and she has a good solid above 4th grade level academic achievement which is AWESOME!) ...but she WOULD strongly benifit from the social scene at the Deaf Schools.....Just like Sidney! (and a multitude of other dhh mainstreamed kids/teens) It's really too bad PA doesn't have dhh program set ups.. That type of thing would be SO GOOD for her....there'd be a lot of other kids like her to socialize with, and it wouldn't be so hard. I know it's also hard b/c she's very strongly academic even for a hearing kid....but yet she doesn't have the super strong social skills that some oral deaf SUPER superstars may have. (BTW don't feel bad.....SUPER superstars who have zero issues with socialization are pretty rare. They exist but they're pretty rare. It's far more common for kids to do OK but not be superstars.....this isn't the result of something you did or didn't do. You shouldn't feel guilty at ALL)
You know what might be a good idea? I have a hunch that a semester or a year at Deaf School could get her out of her shell, and REALLY blooming socially. That in turn would really build her confidence, and then she could explorate her newly learned skills to the mainstream! Remember she doesn't have to spend her entire high school career at a Deaf School.......I think that's what we're saying... that maybe a semester or two at a Deaf School would really improve her social skills.... we're NOT saying " Oh just go send her off to live in the dorms for the four years of high school" Just saying that a semester or two at deaf school would most likely improve her socializiation as a VERY important piece of the puzzle. It would just be a temporary option... Make sense? It would be hard to send her to the dorms....and everyone understands....But the dorms really aren't something out of Charles Dickens....Most good res life programs are more like a really good summer camp program. It's like the way wealthy parents will send their kids to boarding school.... She's also old enough for the dorms, and she would be home every single weekend. Dorming it might also help her with independent living skills. Just a thought. I have a hunch that if you took the plunge and had her attend either WPSD or MSSD for a semester, you wouldn't even recognize her..... I remember when Sidney went off to TSD, I was SO amazed at the change in her......and I remember her saying that her mom was mindblown too!
Maybe too you could try to work with the Deaf School to try to start a mainstream weekend or something like a regional dhh club for mainstreamed teens.
 
MomToDeafChild said:
She's actually very oral, very easily understood. Though I think most kids don't even know how well she speaks because she is so quiet. Even the school staff is surprised when I say how different she is in school compared at home (she is very outgoing and talkative at home, but usually only speaks if spoken to in school).

Unfortunately, her hearing isn't as good as her speech reflects, so I think people assume she hears better than she does. She uses a combination of hearing and lip reading to converse, so it gets overwhelming when she is in anything more than a one on one situation. And I would imagine she spends all her time trying to hear what people are saying that she doesn't have time to contribute anything herself, making her seem like she is not interested in friends.

I've tried putting her in activities with just hearing kids, like sports, but she feels she can't follow along, gets discouraged, and quits.

I am now trying to see if there are any other girls in her grade who have gone to the guidance counselor for social issues to see if they can put the girls together so they can practice social skills together (and maybe make a friend)...
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I don't care how very orally, easily understood by you and other hearing people. It is the isolation in the mainstream school if she had other Hard Of Hearing and d/Deaf kids.

I remembered when I was in hearing mainstream school with Hard Of Hearing/deaf kids. I had trouble trying to understand Hard Of Hearing and deaf kids as we were not allowed to have Sign Language back in the 1950 to 1960. We are all not signing at all, just oral method. I hate oral as I could not understand what teachers and students said in the classrooms. It is also the same in the cafeteria, even I sat with Hard Of Hearing/deaf. I had begged the principal (high school) to have sign language class for us to learn so that we can have ASL interpreters. But the principal said "No" and teachers don't understand why we need better accommodations for us to understand in the classrooms. They really do punished us to be like the hearing students. We had to suffered and put up with them. Our grades were not that great but we managed to graduated from our high school.

I had one of my friends went to Deaf school and she was very happy signing and making friends. I had tried to go to the Deaf school but the superintendent told my mother that I am too smart to be in the Deaf school and that I can managed quite well in the mainstream schools. But that is not true because it is difficult to be with the hearing students and still feel isolated. So I hope your daughter can go to the Deaf school whether she want to go for dormitory or Day Deaf school.

I don't know how much you and your daughter are doing growing up like as baby getting to meet other babies including siblings to play with and then going through meeting neighbor children. You seem to want her to go through regular (mainstream) school. You want her to be like you and every other hearing children. You can not change or make her to be like a hearing person. That is what make it harder for them to go through like that. Also you are not fully accepting her as a deaf or hard of hearing person. She is the way she is for the rest of her life. You have to accept her as she is.

Yoga is great and fitness is what she would like to do but if there are difficulty surrounding hearing people that would make it not easy to communicate well. I do hope she will find d/Deaf people in the yoga class.

Remember I am being blunt as you have to understand about Deaf Culture.
 
Also one more thing, the word "foreign" language for ASL is not the right way to say that. We use ASL as our primary language. That is what we were suppose to learned and signed in the Deaf community, even Deaf events. Don't ever use foreign in relating to Deaf Culture. Again being blunt. :)
 
Beo......I think this is a parent that understands and accepts their dhh kid 100%.... I think the issue is lack of Deaf specific resources..... Like if the Deaf School was down the street, she would totally send her kid there for socialization purposes.
 
SSnow98 said:
Hi! I am 17 and a junior in high school. School is hard. I experience a lot of what your daughter goes through so I know how she feels. I don't ever hate being Deaf but is a burden sometimes! I am mainstreamed but went to TSD for a semester and loved it! I am going back next year as a day student. At a Deaf school, it is easier to belong. If she needs a friend that totally understands, let me know! I know how much when I started high school I had someone to tell me what to expect.
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I'm HoH ( one deaf ear/ one hard of hearing) My parents decided to take me to a mainstream school as well. I had no problems in primary school and I loved it there. My problems just started in fifth till seventh grade. The Boys in my class made fun of my hearing sometimes. I'm pretty sure they didn't mean it but I still have it stuck in my head. I also felt left out in group conversations or group work in school. So I know it can be difficult. I never met any students with hearing issuses so I tried to fit in and hide my "problem" ( still doing it tho)It got better during my A level and I've met some really good friends there but it was not always easy. I don't know if there are deaf schools nearby but I also think it would be a good option to go to a deaf school.
Another good idea for socialising is joining a club. I was quite shy as well. I always loved horses so I took horse riding lessons and met some nice people in my age with the same interests :)
 
Lauralein91 said:
I'm HoH ( one deaf ear/ one hard of hearing) My parents decided to take me to a mainstream school as well. I had no problems in primary school and I loved it there. My problems just started in fifth till seventh grade. The Boys in my class made fun of my hearing sometimes. I'm pretty sure they didn't mean it but I still have it stuck in my head. I also felt left out in group conversations or group work in school. So I know it can be difficult. I never met any students with hearing issuses so I tried to fit in and hide my "problem" ( still doing it tho)It got better during my A level and I've met some really good friends there but it was not always easy. I don't know if there are deaf schools nearby but I also think it would be a good option to go to a deaf school.
Another good idea for socialising is joining a club. I was quite shy as well. I always loved horses so I took horse riding lessons and met some nice people in my age with the same interests :)
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Very interesting to see that the HOH mainstream experiance seems almost universal! Do they have dhh programs at mainstream schools in Germany?
 
deafdyke said:
Very interesting to see that the HOH mainstream experiance seems almost universal! Do they have dhh programs at mainstream schools in Germany?
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What are dhh programs? (deaf/ hard of hearing?) And what does this actually mean?I grew up and went to school in Hanover ( small city in lower saxony).In Hanover children who are deaf or hearing impaired get guidance from the so called "Mobiler Dienst". So basically one teacher from the deaf school was my counselor. Their task was to clarify my teachers about my disability and what they can do to help me in the classroom. They also had to make sure that I don't have a disadvantage because of my hearing. I don't know how is it in your country but we get grades for the oral Participation in class (60%oral/40%in writing).
 
Lauralein91 said:
What are dhh programs? (deaf/ hard of hearing?) And what does this actually mean?I grew up and went to school in Hanover ( small city in lower saxony).In Hanover children who are deaf or hearing impaired get guidance from the so called "Mobiler Dienst". So basically one teacher from the deaf school was my counselor. Their task was to clarify my teachers about my disability and what they can do to help me in the classroom. They also had to make sure that I don't have a disadvantage because of my hearing. I don't know how is it in your country but we get grades for the oral Participation in class (60%oral/40%in writing).
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A dhh program is where a group of deaf/HOH kids from a particular area are educated at a hearing school, and it also offers all the things that you'd find at a really good School for the Deaf. (ie well trained TODs, courses in Sign, Deaf studies, speech therapy etc)
 
courses in sign, doesnt mean sign is the primsry language for them, which is what a deafie school offers. Amongst other thinhgs
 
I grew up profoundly deaf (and still am), and mainstreamed my whole life. I had an interpreter from 2nd through 8th grades (long story), and also have good lipreading/faking/speaking skills that make people think I can hear more than I really do.

The loneliness sounds familiar -- and I wish my family had understood the situation as well as you seem to! (Especially since as a teenager, I wasn't quite as good at articulating and stepping back from my own situation as I am now.)

I actually rejected associating with ASL and the Deaf community when was that age (middle school, high school) because of the audism I was swimming in -- I didn't know the word, I didn't recognize it for what it was, but I knew I didn't want to be associated with "being dumb," so I stayed away. Your daughter may be different -- it sounds like she may be more comfortable with a Deaf/ASL identity -- but for me, suggesting my "leadership" come in those areas would have been an immediate lash-back no. Again, your mileage may vary.

Two things that helped me were (1) participating in online communities -- I got into programming and computers, and started asking questions and working on code projects with people from around the world via email. I had great reading/writing skills in English, which this was dependent on. But there are all sorts of online groups for different interests -- writing, science, science fiction, knitting, art... I got to know some people pretty well through that, and was eventually able to meet them at conferences later on as an adult.

(2) was going to a magnet school. I went to a gifted math and science high school, and that was wonderful for me -- instead of finding "others like me" in the Deaf world, I found them in the geek world... and those kids took the time to slow down, make sure I could lipread, turn on subtitles, etc. b/c they genuinely enjoyed hanging out with me and doing computer, math, theatre, etc. projects. Those kids had some understanding of what being "different" was like -- although they were all hearing, everyone had some sort of "I'm the smart/geeky kid that nobody would hang out with" experience from junior high.

So the takeaway? Maybe it's that communication and socializing and like-minded souls that understand the need for consideration and connection... can happen with Deaf/ASL communities, but also outside of them. I think it depends on which community your daughter would most want to connect to.

I'm studying education (finishing my PhD right now, going to become an engineering professor) and would be happy to talk with you/your daughter over email or skype or something just to connect and say hi -- PM me if you like.
 
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