SEE (Signing Exact English) is the best sign language for a child to start with..

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posts from hell

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Admin. Sometimes they will convene an IEP meeting to make sure we are following all the modifications. Which is bullshit.

1. I'm a certified teacher of the deaf and I do my job. I DO follow mods, even though, technically, for a special education classroom, you do not need the modification page from the IEP because that page is designed for the regular education classroom...
2. Some kids are just LAZY and don't want to do their work...I'm qualified to make that determination.
3. If a child is really struggling due to his/her disability, I would have convened an IEP meeting long before the report card is due.

I've had kids flat out tell me..."you can't give me an "F" in this school" with smirks on their faces.

Well, I did get "permission" to put Fs on their report cards. When the parents called (oh, boy they were mad!) and asked why I gave their kids "Fs" I shot back, I didn't! They EARNED their Fs.

The next grading period, almost all of them started turning in assignments, studying for their tests, and oh my! EARNED their good grades.

That was the reason I got an I on my report card... In my entire high school I havent gotten a F but an I. But the strange thing - 2nd quarter of the semester i got an A and the overall semester grade was an A. So needless to say a lot of teachers knew I was taking full advantage of the system.
 

jillio

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Admin. Sometimes they will convene an IEP meeting to make sure we are following all the modifications. Which is bullshit.

1. I'm a certified teacher of the deaf and I do my job. I DO follow mods, even though, technically, for a special education classroom, you do not need the modification page from the IEP because that page is designed for the regular education classroom...
2. Some kids are just LAZY and don't want to do their work...I'm qualified to make that determination.
3. If a child is really struggling due to his/her disability, I would have convened an IEP meeting long before the report card is due.

I've had kids flat out tell me..."you can't give me an "F" in this school" with smirks on their faces.

Well, I did get "permission" to put Fs on their report cards. When the parents called (oh, boy they were mad!) and asked why I gave their kids "Fs" I shot back, I didn't! They EARNED their Fs.

The next grading period, almost all of them started turning in assignments, studying for their tests, and oh my! EARNED their good grades.

The IEP is a mixed bag. One the one hand, it protects the student from not getting any services at all. On the other hand, it is so important to admin to meet the goals listed that educators are encouraged to "inflate" **ahem** the actual progress being made toward those goals.
 

shel90

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Admin. Sometimes they will convene an IEP meeting to make sure we are following all the modifications. Which is bullshit.

1. I'm a certified teacher of the deaf and I do my job. I DO follow mods, even though, technically, for a special education classroom, you do not need the modification page from the IEP because that page is designed for the regular education classroom...
2. Some kids are just LAZY and don't want to do their work...I'm qualified to make that determination.
3. If a child is really struggling due to his/her disability, I would have convened an IEP meeting long before the report card is due.

I've had kids flat out tell me..."you can't give me an "F" in this school" with smirks on their faces.

Well, I did get "permission" to put Fs on their report cards. When the parents called (oh, boy they were mad!) and asked why I gave their kids "Fs" I shot back, I didn't! They EARNED their Fs.

The next grading period, almost all of them started turning in assignments, studying for their tests, and oh my! EARNED their good grades.


I have given "F"'s out in report cards when I felt it was justified. I always kept proof/documents just in case and that usually shuts certain people up.
 

jillio

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Anyone else notice that with the increase in implanted children there also seems to be an increase in digging up old and outdated methods of communication and teaching language? SEE hasn't been an issue for years. The deaf educational establishment has come to a consensus several years ago that TC was one of the worst things to happen to deaf ed. All of a sudden, they are being drug back into the spotlight. CS was there for awhile, too, and being touted as a communication method. It has dropped back out of the spotlight, and the other two seem to be taking it's place.

Shoot me if you will, but I believe this is happening because people are putting unrealistic hopes, whether they admit it or not, on the CI making their child more hearing than any other child before them. These things will work for their kids because technology has changed the way a deaf kid functions. And I find that to be a damned shame, because all it means is we will have yet another generation of deaf kids not getting their needs met.
 

jillio

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I have given "F"'s out in report cards when I felt it was justified. I always kept proof/documents just in case and that usually shuts certain people up.

As well you should. Why should you not have the same expectations for academic performance for a deaf student that teachers have for a hearing student? Especially in a bi-bi arena. Expect a kid to perform poorly and they will. Expect them to make their best effort and they will. Cheat them out of an opportunity for a full education and pass them on for convenience sake and you have no right to call yourself an educator.
 

SilenceGold

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Back to my original statement - SEE is still the best sign language a child should start with. So far, I have not heard anything or seen evidence that disagrees. :p
 

shel90

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Back to my original statement - SEE is still the best sign language a child should start with. So far, I have not heard anything or seen evidence that disagrees. :p

One example....

Signing "FACE" for the actual face and then "BOOK" for an actual book to represent the social network, Facebook is linguistically confusing. Another is signing "SUPER" as in someone is super and then "BOWL" for an actual bowl to respresent the football game, Superbowl. Those are the few examples out of many that makes SEE rebundant.
 
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DeafidomUK

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SEE eh? That's a new one to me. Over here across the pond we call it SSE. Sign Supported English.
 

AlleyCat

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Back to my original statement - SEE is still the best sign language a child should start with. So far, I have not heard anything or seen evidence that disagrees. :p

Sorry, but just about everyone disagrees.

You would be okay with a child learning and using the sign for break, and fast, to convey breakfast? Should the child learn spoken skills, that wouldn't even be spoken right.

Or hot and dog to convey a hot dog? The child will learn that as a hot canine.

Or a pen and and a man and a ship to convey penmanship? Even when none of those individual signs even comes remotely close to what penmanship means?

We could go on and on.
 

katz4life

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First, one must keep in mind... Average high school graduates are reading at a 6th-7th grade level.

50% of Americans can't read at the 8th grade level. 46% of Americans cannot understand the language used on their Rx bottle.

So, now.

That explains why USA Today newspaper contain articles are written on a ninth grade level.
 

chipmunkis

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Back to my original statement - SEE is still the best sign language a child should start with. So far, I have not heard anything or seen evidence that disagrees. :p
I am hearing, and a Deafblind Intervenor who uses sign language with my students... and I would NEVER use SEE with them. It is inaccurate, and cumbersome. It is not an actual language, merely a manual representation of English.
AlleyCat says it well:
Sorry, but just about everyone disagrees.

You would be okay with a child learning and using the sign for break, and fast, to convey breakfast? Should the child learn spoken skills, that wouldn't even be spoken right.

Or hot and dog to convey a hot dog? The child will learn that as a hot canine.

Or a pen and and a man and a ship to convey penmanship? Even when none of those individual signs even comes remotely close to what penmanship means?

We could go on and on.
 

posts from hell

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One example....

Signing "FACE" for the actual face and then "BOOK" for an actual book to represent the social network, Facebook is linguistically confusing. Another is signing "SUPER" as in someone is super and then "BOWL" for an actual bowl to respresent the football game, Superbowl. Those are the few examples out of many that makes SEE rebundant.

Sorry, but just about everyone disagrees.

You would be okay with a child learning and using the sign for break, and fast, to convey breakfast? Should the child learn spoken skills, that wouldn't even be spoken right.

Or hot and dog to convey a hot dog? The child will learn that as a hot canine.

Or a pen and and a man and a ship to convey penmanship? Even when none of those individual signs even comes remotely close to what penmanship means?

We could go on and on.

I am hearing, and a Deafblind Intervenor who uses sign language with my students... and I would NEVER use SEE with them. It is inaccurate, and cumbersome. It is not an actual language, merely a manual representation of English.
AlleyCat says it well:
Hence the reason I am not going to waste any more time in this thread.
 

BecLak

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deafbajagal said:
Then, by your definition, I'm extremely unintelligent and a backward-thinker. Which is fine by me. Luckily I know better than to be defined by numbers and systems. I define myself.

Measuring intelligence with language and/or communication mode isn't advisable. That is exactly how the misconstrued views of what intelligence really means started from. Especially for deaf people.

You can't speak, therefore you are dumb. The more you know English, the smarter you are. Those myths thrive, even today. It's perfectly fine if someone is incompetent in English but is fluent in ASL. English is NOT superior to ASL. It's not a hearing world. It's a world full of many languages. And ASL is one of them. If a deaf person can't read or write at all but is very fluent in ASL, then my hat is off to him/her. Being fluent in one language is better than being "okay" in two languages.

+1 :gpost: :applaud:
 

BecLak

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SilenceGold said:
Then, by your definition, I'm extremely unintelligent and a backward-thinker. Which is fine by me. Luckily I know better than to be defined by numbers and systems. I define myself.

Measuring intelligence with language and/or communication mode isn't advisable. That is exactly how the misconstrued views of what intelligence really means started from. Especially for deaf people.

You can't speak, therefore you are dumb. The more you know English, the smarter you are. Those myths thrive, even today. It's perfectly fine if someone is incompetent in English but is fluent in ASL. English is NOT superior to ASL. It's not a hearing world. It's a world full of many languages. And ASL is one of them. If a deaf person can't read or write at all but is very fluent in ASL, then my hat is off to him/her. Being fluent in one language is better than being "okay" in two languages.

No - You are able to obtain knowledge independently because you already was a proficient user of English when you graduated from high school. It is because you're not one of those who has went through a life of using only ASL and went through a state sponsored deaf school the entire time. Therefore, you have been able to master reading a novel, self educational, or any other reading materials at time of graduation. Also you have some education from college that is "different" than most of the college education that other pro-ASL students would acquire - they had more dependency on ASL than you did.

I have been hoping to find SOMEONE who, only used ASL their entire life and never had oral education, had achieved the ability to be a "forward thinker"..it would prove my opinion about the importance of SEE being wrong.

Forward thinking as you phrase it is not acquired by mastering language but generally by parental teaching of life observations. It has nothing to do with the acquisition of language.
 

jillio

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Back to my original statement - SEE is still the best sign language a child should start with. So far, I have not heard anything or seen evidence that disagrees. :p

Then you aren't looking. Just because you choose to stick your head in the sand doesn't mean the elephant isn't standing right in front of you.:roll:

SEE is not a sign language. SEE is manually coded English. That is the basic difference that makes it innappropriate in anything but an English teaching situation.
 

jillio

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SEE eh? That's a new one to me. Over here across the pond we call it SSE. Sign Supported English.

Sign Supported English is not exactly the same thing. SEE I and SEE II are systems that were designed by the hearing and they have features that no other sign system has. Sign Supported English is more of a TC concept, and the sign system used is generally more of a Pigin Sign.
 

jillio

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Sorry, but just about everyone disagrees.

You would be okay with a child learning and using the sign for break, and fast, to convey breakfast? Should the child learn spoken skills, that wouldn't even be spoken right.

Or hot and dog to convey a hot dog? The child will learn that as a hot canine.

Or a pen and and a man and a ship to convey penmanship? Even when none of those individual signs even comes remotely close to what penmanship means?

We could go on and on.


I always use the "nose running" example in explaining why manually coded English doesn't work, but I love your examples. Mind if I incorporate them into my explanations?

See there? You guys are still teaching me!
 

jillio

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That explains why USA Today newspaper contain articles are written on a ninth grade level.

And your average newpaper writes for a 4th grade level of reading comprehension. Sad, isn't it? How do these hearing people expect to increase the literacy of deaf kids by using hearing techniques when they can't even increase the literacy of the hearing kids?
 

jillio

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Forward thinking as you phrase it is not acquired by mastering language but generally by parental teaching of life observations. It has nothing to do with the acquisition of language.

Exactly. Action and consequence. Unfortunately, there are too many inconsistent parents out there these days, and kids are not learning this very basic concept.
 

AlleyCat

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I always use the "nose running" example in explaining why manually coded English doesn't work, but I love your examples. Mind if I incorporate them into my explanations?

See there? You guys are still teaching me!

Absolutely do not mind! :)
 
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