School for the Deaf denies deaf child with Down Syndrome placement

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deafdyke

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Bajagirl, and deafskeptic, right on!!!!!!
With that said, you really need to drop this whole Deaf-Blind placement thing. It would be in no way appropriate to put a sighted child in a class consisting solely of Deaf-Blind children.
Really? Then how come Perkins offers that option? They admit Deaf kids with significent disabilties. You have to understand that while there are some Helen Keller style Deaf Blind kids at Perkins, most of them have significent mental handicaps, and most of those kids have residual vision. It's not like a class full of Helen Kellers.
Also, her expressive language skills have everything to do with the fact that she has Down syndrome.
You're missing that the expressive language delay is due to apraxia....Not Down's Syndrome. Again, I know a lot about Down's Syndrome style functioning due to my genetic syndrome. When a kid with apraxia is given ASL/Sign they can really thrive. Like a kid (including a hearing kid with Down's/apraxia) could only speak a handful of words, but they could express themselves in a sophiscated manner with ASL/AAC. (alternative and augmentive communication)
 

CSign

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Bajagirl, and deafskeptic, right on!!!!!!

Really? Then how come Perkins offers that option? They admit Deaf kids with significent disabilties. You have to understand that while there are some Helen Keller style Deaf Blind kids at Perkins, most of them have significent mental handicaps, and most of those kids have residual vision. It's not like a class full of Helen Kellers.

You're missing that the expressive language delay is due to apraxia....Not Down's Syndrome. Again, I know a lot about Down's Syndrome style functioning due to my genetic syndrome. When a kid with apraxia is given ASL/Sign they can really thrive. Like a kid (including a hearing kid with Down's/apraxia) could only speak a handful of words, but they could express themselves in a sophiscated manner with ASL/AAC. (alternative and augmentive communication)

Like I said, not all children with Down syndrome have apraxia. Please substantiate what you are saying since you continue to want to push the point.

Did you read my last two posts? You didn't respond to the link I provided which contains relevant information on the topic. It substantiates my point that children with Down syndrome have an expressive language delay. It's not that they cognitively don't understand, it's that their receptive language surpasses their expressive language. Nothing to do with Apraxia in most cases.
 

shel90

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The Oracle, I KNOW that they do much more then exclusively concentrating on communication in those types of set ups. That was simply an example. I actually have a lot of friends whose kids have signifcent mental disabilties, so I am not just talking out my hat here.
We are not looking down on kids with severe mental handicaps. I don't know where you even get that. We're simply saying that a local deaf school isn't nessarily the best placement for her. Most kids in the multihandicapped programs tend to have mild/moderate disabilties. (shel and bajagirl, can you back me up here?
You're missing that a deaf school may not be able to meet any of her needs either. She needs a specialized program. Heck, did you know that Austine has a Deaf Autism program? It's not b/c the rest of the country's state schools discrimate against Deaf Autistic students, but b/c they are very low incidence and need very specialized programming. That's the same with this kid!

DD, totally correct in addition to what DBG said. Problem is that the OP and Oracle would turn it around and say that we are against deaf children with special needs so ib am not even gonna bother with explaining about the different programs at different Deaf schools. It would be a waste of mytime. I jusdt hope that should do have the resources and trained staff to meet her needs.
 

deafskeptic

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DD, totally correct in addition to what DBG said. Problem is that the OP and Oracle would turn it around and say that we are against deaf children with special needs so ib am not even gonna bother with explaining about the different programs at different Deaf schools. It would be a waste of mytime. I jusdt hope that should do have the resources and trained staff to meet her needs.

So do I. I don't want any students like that deaf austic girl that I mentioned to fall thru the cracks because deaf schools were not equipped to deal with needs that are unrelated to their deafness.
 

CSign

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DD, totally correct in addition to what DBG said. Problem is that the OP and Oracle would turn it around and say that we are against deaf children with special needs so ib am not even gonna bother with explaining about the different programs at different Deaf schools. It would be a waste of mytime. I jusdt hope that should do have the resources and trained staff to meet her needs.

I haven't twisted anyones words.
 

CSign

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So do I. I don't want any students like that deaf austic girl that I mentioned to fall thru the cracks because deaf schools were not equipped to deal with needs that are unrelated to their deafness.

I wouldn't want that either, and it sounds like that student was clearly in an inappropriate placement. Fortunately, with the laws that have changed over the years something like that wouldn't be allowed anymore. It certainly would seem that the school she was at didn't really do what needed to be done for her. She probably would have benefitted from an intervenor or a 1:1 aide to help facilitate language and interactions.
 

deafbajagal

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Some of the best placement options may not always seem like it at first. As DD mentioned, some deaf-blind programs do take children who are not deaf-blind because the programming offers what the child needs. I've seen it. Most teachers in those programs are highly specialized and trained to handle a variety of needs. ;) I'm not saying that is the best case for this particular child because I can't- I'm not in the position to say where is the best placement because I need to be at the meeting with the information and documentation at hand before I can provide input. Every deaf school is completely different from one another...what one deaf school CAN do with its staffing, resources, equipment - another deaf school may not. That's the purpose of the MDT meeting. If the child's syndrome of DS is significantly impacting his language abilities as it has been described, then I'm really surprised that deafness is his/her primary disability. I hate labels and avoid them when possible, but in a MDT when discussing educational programming, the labels become important in determining appropriate services. And funding.

My take on this- the parents and/or the advocate of the child needs to call another MDT meeting if they feel that the current decision is inappropriate. If nothing is resolved, file due process and let the due process hearing determine the next step. In the meantime, think outside the box. What programs (and don't judge a book by its cover) are available and may possible provide a fluid range of services for this child?
 

deafbajagal

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Being deaf does not automatically qualify a child for special education services. A child only qualifies if the said disability adversely affects the child's educational performance.
 

shel90

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I haven't twisted anyones words.

didnt you get upset with some of us who have stated the possibility of the deaf school not having the appropriate resources to meet this child's need totally unrelated to her deafness? Nobody is advocating for the rejection of this child but somehow the thread turned around and made it seem like she wasn't accepted by the coomunity because of her Down's Syndrome. That was when I started seeing this thread as something else entirely that I don't want a part of.
 

deafskeptic

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didnt you get upset with some of us who have stated the possibility of the deaf school not having the appropriate resources to meet this child's need totally unrelated to her deafness? Nobody is advocating for the rejection of this child but somehow the thread turned around and made it seem like she wasn't accepted by the coomunity because of her Down's Syndrome. That was when I started seeing this thread as something else entirely that I don't want a part of.

Ditto here. *sigh*
 

deafdyke

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I don't want any students like that deaf austic girl that I mentioned to fall thru the cracks because deaf schools were not equipped to deal with needs that are unrelated to their deafness.
Amen! If she was around now, she would be sent to Austine. (which has a Deaf austism program)
The simple fact of the matter is, that in a low incidence population, the addition of a really low incidence disabilty really complicates things.
It is exactly like how at a hearing school, the sped dept can give LD kids decent basic education (and even with that, they sometimes have to send kids who are more severe LD off to a specialized school). Thjey can also handle things like ADD and all kinds of relatively high incidence disabilties, including mild intellecutcal disabilty. But they generally cannot serve intense low incidence special needs. Heck, there are a bunch of Deaf Schools that have specialized behavorial disorder programs(a disabilty that is actully...*gasp* quite common)
 

deafdyke

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Nobody is advocating for the rejection of this child but somehow the thread turned around and made it seem like she wasn't accepted by the coomunity because of her Down's Syndrome.
Exactly.
It boils down to the fact that she isn't going to be served adaquatly at a local School for the Deaf. She needs a very specialized Deaf program. Exactly like the program at Beverely School for the Deaf or the one at Perkins.
It would be great if the local deaf school offered an intense day class...but it doesn't.
 

TheOracle

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So do I. I don't want any students like that deaf austic girl that I mentioned to fall thru the cracks because deaf schools were not equipped to deal with needs that are unrelated to their deafness.

It's likely that the deaf autistic girl would suffer in a non-deaf setting. :/

I worked with autistic kids in a supposed 'awesome' school. Dude, suckage.

One of the kids (not autistic, but MR) was deaf and his mom hated the school so much she fought to have him pulled out.
 

TheOracle

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Exactly.
It boils down to the fact that she isn't going to be served adaquatly at a local School for the Deaf. .

Probably isn't going to be served well elsewhere, either.

If she were at a school for the Deaf, she'd probably qualify to get a para for her to be there at all times. The state pays for that.
 

deafdyke

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It's likely that the deaf autistic girl would suffer in a non-deaf setting. :/
Ummmmm we're arguing for specialized programs at Deaf Schools for them. That is why Austine now has a Deaf Autism program!!
We're not saying that kids with significent/low incidence disabilties shouldn't be able to go to Deaf School. Just that they need very specialized programs. Which is why there's a program at Perkins for "just deaf" with significent mental handicaps, and as bajagirl pointed out, a lot of deaf with complex mental disabilty have been served well in deaf/blind programs.
Probably isn't going to be served well elsewhere, either.

If she were at a school for the Deaf, she'd probably qualify to get a para for her to be there at all times. The state pays for that.
Sigh.....again we're saying that she needs a specialized program. A very specialized program.
 

CSign

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Ummmmm we're arguing for specialized programs at Deaf Schools for them. That is why Austine now has a Deaf Autism program!!
We're not saying that kids with significent/low incidence disabilties shouldn't be able to go to Deaf School. Just that they need very specialized programs. Which is why there's a program at Perkins for "just deaf" with significent mental handicaps, and as bajagirl pointed out, a lot of deaf with complex mental disabilty have been served well in deaf/blind programs.
Sigh.....again we're saying that she needs a specialized program. A very specialized program.

Austine probably has that program because they likely have a higher incidence of children who are deaf and also have autism. You have to have the population to start a program like that.
 

whatdidyousay!

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If the school does not have teachers that are trained to work with students that have Down Syndrome , that could put the child at risk . Some kids are more high functioning than others and this child may needed more support that school was capable of giving. I would like to know the whole story before I made a judgement on the school. I know I would not want send a child to a school that was not able to take care of all their needs
 

jillio

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A I have been asking around in the Deaf community about if they know of a school that has denied placemnt for a child with down's syndrome because I really would like to know what school did that so I can help out as I work in a program for deaf children with additional needs. Like if the school doesn't have th resources, I can contact their curriculm specialist and give them a list of resources so this child's are adequately met.

True. If it happend it will be well known in the Deaf community. Not just here on AD. Bet you a dollar to a donut, not one person closely associated with the Deaf or with deaf education has heard a word about this.
 
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