School for the Deaf denies deaf child with Down Syndrome placement

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jillio said:
Appropriate placement involves much more than simple accommodation. The education of cognitively challenged students requires the institution of a special program for those students. She would be better off somewhere that has a program in place and then being accommodated with a terp.
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I understand that appropriate placement involves more than simple accomodations.
 
CSign, are you in contact with the parents of this kid? You could suggest that they look into the ed programs at the School for the Blind. If there is a Deaf Blind program at the Blind School, maybe they could take her. She may not have visual issues, but I do know that Perkins is now accepting deaf kids with more severe mental issues (and no blindness) If she is dealing with autism issues, there is an autism program at Austine School for the Deaf (in VT) It's possible she may need a program that is more geared towards severely multihandicapped kids. While deaf schools may have a lot of LD and mild MR or emoitonal issues, they tend to be less experianced with severely multihandicapped kids. But blind schools are more experianced....and a lot of them have deaf blind programs too. (serving the severe kind, not just Usher's or Charge kids)
 
Well, a parallel situation is a friend of mine with a deaf autistic son, he was placed in a Deaf school but he didn't get on there because he was the only child who had additional needs other than being deaf. He wasn't making friends or fitting in in a class of intellectually and behaviourally normal children who needed the standard curriculum delivered in BSL. Similarly, a child with no other additional needs was placed in a bucketshop "special needs class" because of her deafness and was the only child who was intellectually and developmentally on target, so she had nothing in common with the other children. They suffered socially from having nothing in common with anyone else.

Placement acceptance or refusal needs to take into account so much, looking at trying to get the correct placement for the child from the start rather than put them through several failed placements. It's not always a terrible thing to deny a placement because of other factors, they are (hopefully!!!!) just looking for the best placement and suspecting this is not the best placement.
 
I wish we had more information about this particular situation. It's difficult to make useful judgments or suggestions without knowing all the facts.

How old is this child? How were her special needs taken care of before the family tried to get her into the school for the Deaf? Does she use ASL? Are there any multi-disabilities programs in their area?

Many more questions....
 
RoseRodent said:
Well, a parallel situation is a friend of mine with a deaf autistic son, he was placed in a Deaf school but he didn't get on there because he was the only child who had additional needs other than being deaf. He wasn't making friends or fitting in in a class of intellectually and behaviourally normal children who needed the standard curriculum delivered in BSL. Similarly, a child with no other additional needs was placed in a bucketshop "special needs class" because of her deafness and was the only child who was intellectually and developmentally on target, so she had nothing in common with the other children. They suffered socially from having nothing in common with anyone else.

Placement acceptance or refusal needs to take into account so much, looking at trying to get the correct placement for the child from the start rather than put them through several failed placements. It's not always a terrible thing to deny a placement because of other factors, they are (hopefully!!!!) just looking for the best placement and suspecting this is not the best placement.
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Excellent points. Thank you for sharing that. Nor is it unheard of for a young deaf child that is mainstreamed to be placed into a general special education class for resource time that has no other deaf children, but only students with cognitive disabilities. That is not appropriate. Deaf education is specialized toward linguistic differences and the ways that the deaf student processes information based on those linguistic differences. Education for students with cognitive challenges use different techniques designed to address those cognitive challenges. For a child that has both cognitive challanges and deafness, the program must first address the cognitive challenges to insure that the material is being presented on a level that child will comprehend, and then the linguistic issues are adapted to meet that level.

Just because a child with cognitive challanges speaks English does not mean that they belong in a classroom of children without cognitive challanges who also speak English. Yes, they have the language in common, but they are functioning from different perspectives. That is why children who have cognitive challanges, but also speak English, are placed in special education programs in the mainstream. The same holds true for a deaf child with cognitive challanges. They may have a language in common with deaf children without cognitive delays, but they still need a special ed program to address their needs.

Like Reba said, we don't have much information on this case...only that a child with Down's Syndrome was denied placement at a deaf school. I have to believe that placement was denied for a good reason, and that would be that the school did not have the programs needed to meet the child's needs. To simply place her somewhere based on her deafness that does not fully address her educational and psycho-social needs would be a huge dis-service to this child. The fact that she has Down's Syndrome is a concern that MUST be taken into consideration. It cannot be ignored simply because she is also deaf.
 
Babyblue said:
Florida School for the Deaf has a special needs Department. Do not know about other schools.
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Yup, in Alabama, there is Helen Keller School (HKS) that under AIDB for deaf students with down syndrome, however well educated deaf students with down syndrome can go to ASD so it is depends on cases.
 
Nor is it unheard of for a young deaf child that is mainstreamed to be placed into a general special education class for resource time that has no other deaf children, but only students with cognitive disabilities.
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As well as LDs, behavorial disorder kids and kids that are just there b/c they are dumping ground kids. The problem with mainstream sped is that it is "one room schoolhouse" and teaching is targeted towards the majority.
 
My former school, when I was growing up, used to have many special needs kids. However now, they don't accept many special needs kids, and they end up going to specialist schools instead of deaf school.

Why?

Small enrollment which meant less funding for staff to educate special need kids. Plus it is felt that resources are better put to use educating kids that can benefit from it more than special needs kids.
 
Wirelessly posted

jillio said:
CSign said:
They are saying that they don't have an "appropriate" placement for her. The challenge is that there aren't any other viable options. With some accomodations at the school, her needs could be met there.
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Appropriate placement involves much more than simple accommodation. The education of cognitively challenged students requires the institution of a special program for those students. She would be better off somewhere that has a program in place and then being accommodated with a terp.
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she doesn't deserve direct communication with peers and teachers because she has a cognitive disability? The LRE is going to be free communication with support for her disability (ds) which would mean a deaf school.
 
Good point Miss Delectable. Most kids with intelletcual disabilty and deafness can benifit from attending a Deaf School. Something like 90% of kids with MR have mild MR. But at the same time, there are still a lot of kids who have more severe issues, where they may be deaf or use ASL....but they use ASL not as a language, but more as an augmentive and alternative communcation system.
 
faire_jour said:
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she doesn't deserve direct communication with peers and teachers because she has a cognitive disability? The LRE is going to be free communication with support for her disability (ds) which would mean a deaf school.
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Where do you read that? Making stuff up again.:roll:

Maybe you need to go tell the school that denied placement about the LRE and appropriate placement. I'm sure they would be very interested in yourself proclaimed expertise and authority.
 
So who has the responsibility of educating this child? If language is the single most important success factor in any child's life, then why not place her in an environment where she can communicate? I have met a lot of kids with DS. Some have very low 'intelligence' based on tests, but some are a shade shy of MMR.


I'm not convinced this is a case where the school just can't meet her needs. :/ Children who are functioning with DS fare pretty decently being partially mainstreamed (from what I've seen). They usually need extras like basic care, money management, transitional services, whatever. If this girl is deaf and DS, then I'm almost betting she'd suffer more in an environment without ASL or deaf sensitivities.

edit: again, we don't know the details. i'm just going off the impression that CSign gave.
 
TheOracle said:
So who has the responsibility of educating this child? If language is the single most important success factor in any child's life, then why not place her in an environment where she can communicate? I have met a lot of kids with DS. Some have very low 'intelligence' based on tests, but some are a shade shy of MMR.


I'm not convinced this is a case where the school just can't meet her needs. :/ Children who are functioning with DS fare pretty decently being partially mainstreamed (from what I've seen). They usually need extras like basic care, money management, transitional services, whatever. If this girl is deaf and DS, then I'm almost betting she'd suffer more in an environment without ASL or deaf sensitivities.

edit: again, we don't know the details. i'm just going off the impression that CSign gave.
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We don't even know if this child uses ASL, or what her communication level is. The school, I'm sure, has that information, and determined that they did not have the programs necessary to meet her needs.

Nothing wrong with putting her in a DS program with ASL accommodation. But to put her in a deaf classroom with children who are functioning above her level academically, socially, and psychologically just because she is deaf is the wrong thing to do.
 
jillio said:
Nothing wrong with putting her in a DS program with ASL accommodation. But to put her in a deaf classroom with children who are functioning above her level academically, socially, and psychologically just because she is deaf is the wrong thing to do.
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We don't know her ASL needs or levels. But some kids go to Deaf school and have zero ASL.

Anyway, as far as her placement goes -- it is norm for DS to be mainstreamed most of the day, provided they are met in terms of emotional and social needs. Interaction with typical children is a damned good thing for a lot of kids with 'special needs'.

I hate having 15 IEPs in my class and trying to meet everyone's needs and having 10 AHD a-holes and juggle it all while trying to retain a degree of actual academics while addressing the rest of the class that, you know, wants to learn. :D

But your DS child may not be, oh, talking in depth about the framers of the constitution, but that doesn't mean he/she can't grasp the concepts of natural rights or human conflict.

Like I said...we don't know about this kid...but being deaf is -10 right now. There's already a speech/language issue, a cognitive disability and specific educational needs. *sigh* If the child had some kind of HA before, it's possible she has a degree of English already.

Edit: If this girl signs, even if it's bad sign, and she's at a certain age/language level, then it's a serious disservice to not admit her. FJ has a point. In a 'typical' DS case, the LRE is mainstreamed most of the time or part of the day. It is extremely beneficial for the child.

If that can be transferred to a Deaf school for this child, then yes, that is the reasonable LRE environment. It could just be that the school doesn't want to deal with it. They presumably have SPED resources. I donno. It could be a matter of language, but I still argue that for her social development, she does need to be 'with her peers'. If her respective peers are hearing and do not know ASL or have any understanding of deafness, that's only going to make an unfortunate situation worse.

I thought deaf ed was about educating deaf children. :(
 
TheOracle said:
We don't know her ASL needs or levels. But some kids go to Deaf school and have zero ASL.

Anyway, as far as her placement goes -- it is norm for DS to be mainstreamed most of the day, provided they are met in terms of emotional and social needs. Interaction with typical children is a damned good thing for a lot of kids with 'special needs'.

I hate having 15 IEPs in my class and trying to meet everyone's needs and having 10 AHD a-holes and juggle it all while trying to retain a degree of actual academics while addressing the rest of the class that, you know, wants to learn. :D

But your DS child may not be, oh, talking in depth about the framers of the constitution, but that doesn't mean he/she can't grasp the concepts of natural rights or human conflict.

Like I said...we don't know about this kid...but being deaf is -10 right now. There's already a speech/language issue, a cognitive disability and specific educational needs. *sigh* If the child had some kind of HA before, it's possible she has a degree of English already.

Edit: If this girl signs, even if it's bad sign, and she's at a certain age/language level, then it's a serious disservice to not admit her. FJ has a point. In a 'typical' DS case, the LRE is mainstreamed most of the time or part of the day. It is extremely beneficial for the child.

If that can be transferred to a Deaf school for this child, then yes, that is the reasonable LRE environment. It could just be that the school doesn't want to deal with it. They presumably have SPED resources. I donno. It could be a matter of language, but I still argue that for her social development, she does need to be 'with her peers'. If her respective peers are hearing and do not know ASL or have any understanding of deafness, that's only going to make an unfortunate situation worse.

I thought deaf ed was about educating deaf children. :(
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Deaf ed is about educating deaf children. But simply placing a child with cognitive disability in a deaf classroom of average functioning deaf students does not address her needs. Any more than putting a student with cognitive disabilities in a classroom of average functioning hearing students would address a hearing student's needs.

You cannot presume that the school has SPED resources. That is the whole issue. Deaf education is specialized methodology designed to address the cognitive and linguisitic needs associated with deafness. It is not special ed. It does not address the cognitive delays that are indicative of DS.

I do not feel that it is a disservice not to admit her based on the fact that she may be using a little sign. What are her receptive levels? What are her expressive levels? Why would you propose putting a child in a classroom where she cannot function at the same level of the other students, linquistically, socially, or academically? Simply based on the fact that she can use a degree of manual communication?
 
Wirelessly posted

but how will she be served in a hearing setting? She needs free communication, and that will not happen unless she is in a deaf setting. I feel like you are saying deaf schools show be for "vanilla deaf" only. They should be for any child with a hearing loss. If the child is an asl user, the LRE will be with other asl users. The deaf school MUST provide accomodations for this child's special needs, just like a hearing school would for a hearing child with ds.
 
Wirelessly posted

how come an interpreter is "good enough" for a deaf child with a handicap but it is NOT the lre for a deaf child who is not?
 
Isn't there any program including ASL for mentally challenged children?
 
Bottesini said:
Isn't there any program including ASL for mentally challenged children?
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As far as I know of, yes. I have encountered parents who have mentally challenged children that they, and the child, both learn ASL as a form of communication where other forms of communication are difficult. I work with a woman who has a mentally challenged child; he is now in his mid-20's (I have met him) and still lives at home with his parents (his mom said he always will, unless they can find an appropriate living placement for him) and their primary form of communication is ASL. She often signs with me at work.
 
Bottesini said:
Isn't there any program including ASL for mentally challenged children?
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Yes, of course there are. As a matter of fact, most DS programs now include sign in their curriculum and language of instruction simply because the research has shown the benefit to DS children, including the hearing DS children.
 
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