oral death program question

ambrosia said:
You're right she didn't say spoken English but I think you're giving her too much benefit of the doubt. She has mentioned amplification and aiding newborns and that they're acquiring of English would be natural. Just going by the fact that she's talking about what they're hearing, and at that age written English isn't even on the table, I'm going to assume she means learning English by hearing it, spoken English.

If that's the case she must be suffering from extreme confusion. All hearing loss is not equal. The amount if possible speech reception is dependent on the level of loss. Not to mention there are ski slope, reverse ski slope, cookie bite and flat losses, all which effect how well aids are going to work for someone. You can't expect to slap hearing aids on someone and expect that no matter the degree of loss they will get the same results from being aided. I highly doubt if I had been born with the loss I have now I would ever have gotten any speech discrimination.
Click to expand...

That's pretty much what I said, but different wording.
 
dogmom said:
I think you may be more optimistic than I in this case...
Click to expand...
I did detect the spirit of stubbornness there. What was the actual point though? That the need for a culture is somehow unnecessary because technology fixes everything for everybody?
Ouch.

Technology is the right of the privileged basically. If someone is not privileged they are on the outside looking in. Huh?

Signing does not cost one thin dime to use. It is free. Freedom is a beautiful thing. Don't give up freedom. Be free together.
 
You know oral death. It is where your significant other talks and talks and talks until you want to die!
 
BecLak said:
I agree with you Botts, that fluent written English is very attainable for all Deaf. :D
Click to expand...

Precisely.......The really important thing is fluent WRITTEN English...for EVERYONE....I've seen hearing people who can't even write "the firetruck is red" without mangling it.
 
TODtobe said:
Most profoundly deaf children are implanted today. I think I have read the figure is close to 85%. Most kids in oral deaf programs have severe to profound losses.
Click to expand...

Be careful TODtobe! As a veteran TOD (nearly 20 years) I can tell you that not all implants work well for all kids and not all kids tolerate the amplification of being implanted. What you learn at school is narrow compared to real life. I have always thought of lip reading as a natural talent. Certainly, for some kiddos we cue speech to aid in total communication but I think you can't assume who will be successful and who won't. :roll:
 
Caligirlnow said:
Be careful TODtobe! As a veteran TOD (nearly 20 years) I can tell you that not all implants work well for all kids and not all kids tolerate the amplification of being implanted. What you learn at school is narrow compared to real life. I have always thought of lip reading as a natural talent. Certainly, for some kiddos we cue speech to aid in total communication but I think you can't assume who will be successful and who won't. :roll:
Click to expand...

I agree with you based on what I have seen in my career in the last 10 years.
 
deafdyke said:
They're still language delayed right? They still start out needing intense oral schools,speech therapy or AVT.....
How many of those students GRADUATE completely from speech? How many of them have on par verbal IQs?
Click to expand...

No. They are completely caught up before age 5. They completely graduate and no longer need services. Their language is no longer delayed. They are within the normal range. Can I be any clearer?
 
CSign said:
I think it's important for you to recognize that everyone responds differently to hearing technology. Not everyone gets the same benefit, and the significant majority of those deaf children will not acquire English through audition alone.

If the parent commits to using TC and SEE, then I would agree that they can acquire English naturally. Otherwise, it requires learning English through reading, writing, speech, and language therapy.

English can be acquired naturally, but in most cases not through audition alone.
Click to expand...
This is not what I am seeing. I see most children acquiring English naturally through audition. If they are fitted with appropriate hearing devices, they can hear and understand and discriminate all the sounds in spoken English. Because they have access to that, they can naturally acquire English.
 
BecLak said:
If spoken English can still be acquired naturally as you say, then why is it that after nearly 50 years......years of Speech therapy and having my speech corrected every waking hour, being declared an 'oral success' because I was raised to be a public speaker yet, I still have to concentrate on enunciating my words, I still stumble on pronunciation, and still have a aching weight in my chest from effort to push the words out?? That's not 'natural' It's like doing a work-out non-stop. That's why I've said 'Enough is enough'. My choice is Voice-off. Being voice-off, I have no weight on my shoulders, I'm free!
Click to expand...
I assume because you cannot hear. Are you able to hear and understand yourself and others?
 
TODtobe said:
No. They are completely caught up before age 5. They completely graduate and no longer need services. Their language is no longer delayed. They are within the normal range. Can I be any clearer?
Click to expand...
You've tracked this yourself?
 
TODtobe said:
This is not what I am seeing. I see most children acquiring English naturally through audition. If they are fitted with appropriate hearing devices, they can hear and understand and discriminate all the sounds in spoken English. Because they have access to that, they can naturally acquire English.
Click to expand...
"Most children?" Of what demographic?
 
Caligirlnow said:
Be careful TODtobe! As a veteran TOD (nearly 20 years) I can tell you that not all implants work well for all kids and not all kids tolerate the amplification of being implanted. What you learn at school is narrow compared to real life. I have always thought of lip reading as a natural talent. Certainly, for some kiddos we cue speech to aid in total communication but I think you can't assume who will be successful and who won't. :roll:
Click to expand...
I don't believe that cochlear implants work for everyone. I also think that lipreading is the very last thing a child should be using to understand language! That is cruel and ineffective. My reference was to deaf children being caught up in language, regardless of their language.
 
TODtobe said:
This is not what I am seeing. I see most children acquiring English naturally through audition. If they are fitted with appropriate hearing devices, they can hear and understand and discriminate all the sounds in spoken English. Because they have access to that, they can naturally acquire English.
Click to expand...

You're clearly very new to this, with much to learn.
 
TOD, why is it so difficult for you to believe people who have actually lived -LIVED - the experience which you seem to love to -describe - but actually have not ACTUALLY BEEN THROUGH YOURSELF?

Studies and things you -think- you've seen, is not the same as actually living in the situation, day after day for years. Especially as a child. What experiences do you have where people assumed you understood, because:

-everyone else got it;

-"something" was supposed to work or be effective, based on studies or numbers or some company/product/"authority" said so;

-it 'looked like' you understood because you FAKED IT;

-or because you tried like hell and what you did looked good on paper but
you were still ALONE, LOST, feeling, inadequate;

and this went on every day. For years.

No study, expectation or growth chart, rating or percentage figure by some people in lala-land, can compare to the actual day-to-day feeling of having this happen to you.
 
TODtobe said:
This is not what I am seeing. I see most children acquiring English naturally through audition. If they are fitted with appropriate hearing devices, they can hear and understand and discriminate all the sounds in spoken English. Because they have access to that, they can naturally acquire English.
Click to expand...

Not always.

I have seen some of hearing kids do have struggles of acquiring English too. I know lot of Deaf/HOH kids who do have good English through reading. Why can't heairng kids do the same by reading?
 
dogmom said:
TOD, why is it so difficult for you to believe people who have actually lived -LIVED - the experience which you seem to love to -describe - but actually have not ACTUALLY BEEN THROUGH YOURSELF?

Studies and things you -think- you've seen, is not the same as actually living in the situation, day after day for years. Especially as a child. What experiences do you have where people assumed you understood, because:

-everyone else got it;

-"something" was supposed to work or be effective, based on studies or numbers or some company/product/"authority" said so;

-it 'looked like' you understood because you FAKED IT;

-or because you tried like hell and what you did looked good on paper but
you were still ALONE, LOST, feeling, inadequate;

and this went on every day. For years.

No study, expectation or growth chart, rating or percentage figure by some people in lala-land, can compare to the actual day-to-day feeling of having this happen to you.
Click to expand...

AMEN! Not all of us are those kids who heard 40% with hearing aids....MANY of us who are AUDILOGICALLY HOH ALSO dealt with the exact same issues....
I've got a moderately severe loss,and was caught up speech and language wise by age five.In fact my verbal IQ is in the supeior range....I STILL experianced ALL of the downsides. Even thou,guess what? I'm an AURAL learner?!?!?!..The trouble is that oral TODs think that the only tool should be a "pretty voice"...........they think "get them hearing and talking and in the mainstream and that's enough."
 
Back
Top