MSNBC: Texas to let teachers bring guns to school

[dreamchaser]

And how do kids learn primarily? Example, example, example.

 

[Jiro]

Reposted.

for clarification. You revised it after I posted my response so that's why there's a bit of confusion.

Sorry, but you REALLY need to read more carefully, and then work on keeping what you have read (and stated) in your short term memory long enough to make your next post. You've contradicted yourself so many times that you can't even keep up with yourself. The policy, in fact, does provide the allowance for every teacher to be armed. Do I need to explain the meaniong of "every" for you, or do you think you can work real hard and get it on your own?

can you kindly point out where in the article or anywhere that said "every" teacher should be armed?

HOUSTON - A Texas school district will let teachers bring guns to class this fall, the district's superintendent said on Friday, in what experts said appeared to be a first in the United States.

The board of the small rural Harrold Independent School District unanimously approved the plan and parents have not objected, said the district's superintendent, David Thweatt.

School experts backed Thweatt's claim that Harrold, a system of about 110 students 150 miles northwest of Fort Worth, may be the first to let teachers bring guns to the classroom.

Thweatt said it is a matter of safety.

"We have a lock-down situation, we have cameras, but the question we had to answer is, 'What if somebody gets in? What are we going to do?" he said. "It's just common sense."

Board members estimate it would take first responders nearly 30 minutes to get to the rural school in an emergency.

Teachers who wish to bring guns will have to be certified to carry a concealed handgun in Texas and get crisis training and permission from school officials, he said.

Recent school shootings in the United States have prompted some calls for school officials to allow students and teachers to carry legally concealed weapons into classrooms.

The U.S. Congress once barred guns at schools nationwide, but the U.S. Supreme Court struck the law down, although state and local communities could adopt their own laws. Texas bars guns at schools without the school's permission.

either I need to get a new pair of glasses or Jillio needs to :clit:
(Sorry to be crass but that's how I am in IRL )

 

[jillio]

and what makes you think proactive thing is going to help effectively? and how is that possible in ghetto schools? is that part of your thesis? sorry to disappoint you but it's not going to work as you think - only in your little lab and paper.

What makes me think proactive would work? Because it has been supported empirically, across disciplines, and over time, that prevention is more effective than correction. And why wouldn't it be possible in urban, inner city schools. (The use of "ghetto", BTW, is letting your prejudice hang out for all to see. Better tuck that back in.)

Why isn't it going to work? You keep saying that, but you have yet to offer an explanation of how it won't work. Or is it that you haven't thought any farther than your first sentence, and therefore don't have an answer?

don't you ever think about a kid being shunned if he were singled out by teacher/counselor for being a potential mental case?
Speaking from personal experience?:giggle:

And your statement implies that you would prefer a child be ignored and allowed to deteriorate to the point of becoming a school shooter and killing himself and others rather than risk his suffering the stigma of a "potential mental case". Why don't we just shoot him when he starts to exhibit at risk behaviors, and then we wouldn't have to worry about the stigma! God, jiro, try to form a logical thought here!

That is the life of high school. But when it comes to college - that is a different story and I agreed with you that they need to seriously revise/improve their policy regarding treatment and follow-up of depressed/mentally-disturbed/illed students. I was deeply disturbed about their lack of follow-ups on VT shooter. it's such a bullshit that they did not just because he does not reside on campus.

And, perhaps if his problems had been recognized and dealt with in high school, (despite the OMG! stigma of having seen a high school counselor!), his problems would not have followed him to Virginia Tech.

Look what you are doing now. First you say, "a proactive solution won't work", then you turn around and say, "A proactive solution needs to undertaken by colleges." You can't have it both ways. Find a side and stick to it. Either it works, or it doesn't work. Which is it?

in fact - you're trending a thin line of discrimination/defamation or whatsoever - possible lawsuits by angry parents especially in upper class area. No parents want their kids to be labeled as "possible/potential mental case." Expect some serious lawsuits. :roll: Another EPIC FAIL.

Oh, I see. Parents would rather their kids be known as a school shooter than someone who has seen a mental health counselor. Yeah, that makes sense. NOT.:roll:

And it in no way falls under the category of "discrimination." Nor is it "defamation". You need to consult a dictionary here.Teachers are there with their students. They have genuine concern for their students. They will protect them with their life.... as we've seen such courageous display in school shootings. 1% chance of school shooting as you said - a rare occurrence thus no need to thin the limited budget but school shooting do happens and will happen again. It is logical choice to me that 1-2 teacher/principal/school official should be armed if they want to.

How about if we utilize schools for what they were intended: to educate.

Yes, such a rare occurrance that it does not warrant the risk of allowing teachers to go armed.

 

[jillio]

for clarification. You revised it after I posted my response so that's why there's a bit of confusion.


can you kindly point out where in the article or anywhere that said "every" teacher should be armed?

Can you read? It said, and Woka and I have both pointed out, that it says every teacher could go armed. Notice that should is spelled with an "sh" at the beginning, and could is spelled with a "c" at the beginning. Do you think you have it now, or do I need to break it down further for you? Allowing for every teacher to go armed is creating the possibility that every teacher could be armed.
either I need to get a new pair of glasses or Jillio needs to :clit:
(Sorry to be crass but that's how I am in IRL )

It would appear that your glasses need changing.

 

[Jiro]

How about if we utilize schools for what they were intended: to educate.

Yes, such a rare occurrance that it does not warrant the risk of allowing teachers to go armed.

GOOD LUCK!! trying to change the whole stigma and society! Don't blame me. Blame the society... yea the whole USA. HOWEVER - even if VT did try to do follow-up and such.... IT IS NOT A GUARANTEE. If you want guarantee, then he should be strapped away with a crazy man suit and taken to mental hospital in a padded room. But we're not gonna do that, right?

We can't always cover every single little legal things to cover everything. Mental case is difficult. extraordinary difficult.

 

[jillio]

And how do kids learn primarily? Example, example, example.

Absolutely.

 

[Wokamuka]

can you kindly point out where in the article or anywhere that said "every" teacher should be armed?

A Texas school district will let teachers bring guns to class this fall . . .

Here's what it doesn't say: some, 1-2, a handful, half of all, - it says, "teachers." That, clearly, says that anyone who has the title of being a teacher has the permission (i.e., every teacher, all teachers, teachers).

 

[dreamchaser]

Just curious, but what do you think it is teaching the kids to see their educators carry guns,, presumably loaded guns, into the classroom?

Is it promoting violence as an alternative to people actually caring enough about other people as a solution to some of the anger that is instilled in our students? Does love beget love and anger beget anger?

I am just not sure what kind of an example it would set.

Maybe we could focus more on caring about our students as real people, and maybe we could work or erradicating the reasons that our kids are angry --- like for instance prejudism,, and poverty... etc... ? Does the guy with the most guns always win,, like the school bully?

Just asking,,, Not trying to be disrespectful,,, But I do think that we are responsible for the example that we set for our kids. It would be nice to see (for a change) that love and understanding won....

 

[Jiro]

It would appear that your glasses need changing.

and I have pointed out that "teachers who wish to bring guns will have to be certified to carry a concealed handgun in Texas and get crisis training and permission from school officials."

Your fear is UNSOUND AND UNREASONABLE. Can you tell me what are the chance of school to have NEAR or 100% armed teachers & staffs? Probably half of them will fail the training and/or federal background check and another half of certified CCW will fail to get approval from school officials.

please give it up. it's foolish to continue. here's a thing - if the school was near or 100% armed... hell! it's probably the safest school in USA!!!! That's where I'd send my kids to!!

 

[jillio]

GOOD LUCK!! trying to change the whole stigma and society! Don't blame me. Blame the society... yea the whole USA. HOWEVER - even if VT did try to do follow-up and such.... IT IS NOT A GUARANTEE. If you want guarantee, then he should be strapped away with a crazy man suit and taken to mental hospital in a padded room. But we're not gonna do that, right?

We can't always cover every single little legal things to cover everything. Mental case is difficult. extraordinary difficult.

Who said anything about removing stigma? That wasn't my question to you at all.

Who asked for a guarantee?

And your experience in matters legal is questionable. On the other hand, your knowlege of, and experience in treating, mental illness is nonexistent. As you can elaborate on neither, as, once again, you have thought no further than the first judgemental sentence you are able to semi-compose, your remarks are worthless.

 

[Jiro]

Just curious, but what do you think it is teaching the kids to see their educators carry guns,, presumably loaded guns, into the classroom?

Is it promoting violence as an alternative to people actually caring enough about other people as a solution to some of the anger that is instilled in our students? Does love beget love and anger beget anger?

I am just not sure what kind of an example it would set.

Maybe we could focus more on caring about our students as real people, and maybe we could work or erradicating the reasons that our kids are angry --- like for instance prejudism,, and poverty... etc... ? Does the guy with the most guns always win,, like the school bully?

Just asking,,, Not trying to be disrespectful,,, But I do think that we are responsible for the example that we set for our kids. It would be nice to see (for a change) that love and understanding won....

Look at Switzerland. Each household is required to have guns. Any problem? nope. any detrimental case? nope.

 

[jillio]

Here's what it doesn't say: some, 1-2, a handful, half of all, - it says, "teachers." That, clearly, says that anyone who has the title of being a teacher has the permission (i.e., every teacher, all teachers, teachers).

Perhaps you need to reduce it from a 1st grade level to a pre-K?

 

[Jiro]

Perhaps you need to reduce it from a 1st grade level to a pre-K?

**hint - not me!

 

[jillio]

and I have pointed out that "teachers who wish to bring guns will have to be certified to carry a concealed handgun in Texas and get crisis training and permission from school officials."

Your fear is UNSOUND AND UNREASONABLE. Can you tell me what are the chance of school to have NEAR or 100% armed teachers & staffs? Probably half of them will fail the training and/or federal background check and another half of certified CCW will fail to get approval from school officials.

please give it up. it's foolish to continue. here's a thing - if the school was near or 100% armed... hell! it's probably the safest school in USA!!!! That's where I'd send my kids to!!

Greater than the risk of a school shooting.

I don't doubt that his where you would send your kids, with their little Uzis strapped to their book bags.:roll:

 

[Jiro]

Who said anything about removing stigma? That wasn't my question to you at all.

Who asked for a guarantee?

And your experience in matters legal is questionable. On the other hand, your knowlege of, and experience in treating, mental illness is nonexistent. As you can elaborate on neither, as, once again, you have thought no further than the first judgemental sentence you are able to semi-compose, your remarks are worthless.

and I did not imply at all that students with mental case should be ignored. Nope nope nope. I'm just telling you the reality of America. You say proactive thing is useful. I'm just pointing out that you are opening a whole load of lawsuits from angry parents. If you want to change that perception, go ahead. If you cannot convince me or Reba, how can you convince a society?

 

[Wokamuka]

Probably half of them will fail the training and/or federal background check and another half of certified CCW will fail to get approval from school officials.

Individuals with a Master's degree will fail a CCW certification program? Teachers failing a federal background check? They shouldn't be teaching in the first place!

The approved plan does not make a provision for the school's approval criteria.

 

[jillio]

Look at Switzerland. Each household is required to have guns. Any problem? nope. any detrimental case? nope.

Do you just make stuff up as you go along?

The Swiss household gun-ownership rate is 27 percent excluding militia weapons. Contrast this with the household gun-ownership rates (at least for households willing to divulge gun ownership to a government-affiliated telephone pollster) of 16 percent for Italians, 23 percent for French, and 9 percent for Germans.

Swiss Mess

Better check under than dunce cap again. Sure looks like you!

 

[jillio]

and I did not imply at all that students with mental case should be ignored. Nope nope nope. I'm just telling you the reality of America. You say proactive thing is useful. I'm just pointing out that you are opening a whole load of lawsuits from angry parents. If you want to change that perception, go ahead. If you cannot convince me or Reba, how can you convince a society?

Do you know what proactive means?

And exactly how would it open up a load of lawsuits from parents?

I would hope that the majority of society is capable of thought. And that was directed at you, not Reba. Fight your own battles.

 

[Reba]

Accord your post.

According to my post what?

"It happens"? Unarmed pregnant women, teenagers, children, senior etc were being hurt/killed by Police Officer with taser or gun. It´s bad judgement and unprofessional of Police Officers. Do you call it "It happens"?

I never denied that it sometimes happens.

Sure, it´s not common to you as an American but for me as an European, yes.

Show me statistics that prove that it's a "common" occurrence. Whether you are American or European doesn't effect the numbers.

 

[Jiro]

Greater than the risk of a school shooting.

I don't doubt that his where you would send your kids, with their little Uzis strapped to their book bags.:roll:

um... kids are not allowed to carry guns - you need to be minimum of 18 years old. Most states do not allow fully-automatic weapons - you need to have a separate license for that :roll:

perhaps you meant to be sarcastic or just joking around but this is a pretty bad joke. Gun is not funny. It's a serious responsibility for serious people. Apparently you thought it is funny. How offensive.