Missouri House Bans Contraception for Poor Women

THAT bunch of conservatives, anyway. I was having a talk about something like this with a liberal friend and we both agreed about how essential contraceptives are. I don't think they're the ONLY resource that's necessary...I'd like to see better educational programs, better services to help single mothers cope, and MUCH more shoring-up of adoption programs so that mothers who give their babies up don't have to worry about their kids being condemned to a childhood of institutional hell.
 
I had lived in Missouri 6 months back in 2002, it was hard to get much needed services there when I lived there. They are one of the states that have that monthly downspend for Medicaid and outrageous monthly payments for it! Glad I moved out of there!
 
Her argument was that it was an inappropriate use of tax dollars...and I'm surprised that people here would disagree with her, other than she is a Republican. Nobody wants to pay taxes, but they want the state to pay for everything...even rubbers. Why should the state pick up the tab on contraceptives? Its not a matter of 'keeping the poor poor'...the goverment has no say in who you have sex with, how you have it, and whether you put on a rubber or not...how is your choice of sexual activities the governments responsibility to keep you from getting pregnant? That is your responsibility.

Like RoseImmortal said, I believe that contraceptives are essential, but why does everyone want the goverment to take care of the worlds ills...and yet want the goverment to stay out of their lives?

Here in Maryland, there are non-profit groups that give out free contraceptives (including abortion clinics) and these are readily available. There are also a variety of other programs available for the poor that do not need to be government funded.
 
Taylor said:
Nobody wants to pay taxes, but they want the state to pay for everything...even rubbers. Why should the state pick up the tab on contraceptives?

1. I do want to pay taxes, and am happy to do so, despite the fact that my tax dollars are used to execute people, pay for tools of war, and have in other ways been used to violate my personal and religious values, because i recognize that a. this is a democarcy and b. what the government gives, it must first take away.

2. Because as a taxpayer I will pay for homeless, low income and indigent people to be treated for STD's. I will pay for children of low-income families to receive food, medical care, education and other social services. I will pay for children to be processed into foster care, and into jeuvenile detention, and I will pay for adults to be incarcerated. I will, through my taxes, pay for all kinds of services designed to alleviate the societal problems caused by the birth of children to people ill-equipped to provide for their needs. I would rather, as a taxpayer, pay the few cents for a contraceptive to prevent the problem, rather than pay the potentially $1000's that may come as a result. This is not to suggest that ALL children born to poor families will be a burden on society, or that NO children born to well-off families will later become a burden, but in the strictest sense, it's a matter of economics.

3. Because we are one of the most affluent countries in the history of this planet, and as a person who has rarely had to go without anything I needed because of finances, I feel it's the least I can do to try to share some of my affluence with those who could most benefit from it - both through my taxes, and through private charities.
 
I have mixed feelings on this one. I see the state spending more money now on Welfare and Health Care because these people who couldn't afford the pill are now having more OOPS and getting pregnant.
 
Taylor said:
Her argument was that it was an inappropriate use of tax dollars...and I'm surprised that people here would disagree with her, other than she is a Republican. Nobody wants to pay taxes, but they want the state to pay for everything...even rubbers. Why should the state pick up the tab on contraceptives? Its not a matter of 'keeping the poor poor'...the goverment has no say in who you have sex with, how you have it, and whether you put on a rubber or not...how is your choice of sexual activities the governments responsibility to keep you from getting pregnant? That is your responsibility.

Like RoseImmortal said, I believe that contraceptives are essential, but why does everyone want the goverment to take care of the worlds ills...and yet want the goverment to stay out of their lives?

Here in Maryland, there are non-profit groups that give out free contraceptives (including abortion clinics) and these are readily available. There are also a variety of other programs available for the poor that do not need to be government funded.

That's great, Taylor! Now allow me a lil stab at levity as to the the question of "why" here: It's cuz Billary, ummm, Hillary said so with the: "...it takes a community........".
:mrgreen:
 
You know...I've been thinking about this post and my response to it. I have determined that I *might* be a little jaded in my attitude.

Just a couple of weeks ago, I had to remove 5 children from a home from a mother who was 24 years old. She could not care for these children at all and that is why they were removed (one of the most difficult things I've ever had to do was take kids away from their parents). These children had no clothes, no toys, no nothing. The house was a pig sty with rotten food piling up and bugs all over everything. It was a 2 bedroom apartment with the mother in 1 room and the 5 kids piled up in a small room.

I would like to think that a free contraceptive would have helped prevent this, but it does not.


Here is what I generally see, and this is why its a sore subject with me:

There is a mother...we'll call her "Shellie". Shellie receives $500 a month welfare. Her rent is $70 per month. All of her utilities (including phone bill) are also paid for by the welfare system. She receives food stamps, so her food is paid for. A community group has given her clothing to wear so she purchases no clothing from her $500. Shellie has a drug problem and she refuses any type of free treatment. She spends about $300 a month on crack. She has no job, nor have the desire to work. If she gets a job, her $500 a month is reduced and her rent goes up. There is no incentive to get a job because the welfare system 'punishes' her for gaining employment.

Shellie sleeps with a guy down the street. She knows this guy has 4 kids by 3 different women (that she knows of) and he does nothing to support those kids. Shellie believes that her relationship with this man will be different than those other women.

Shellie gets pregnant and has a little boy. Because Shellie now has a child, her welfare check goes up to $700 a month. Her rent drops down to $60 a month. Instead of purchasing clothes for the child, Shellie now has an additional $200 a month to spend on drugs. She also receives an additional amount of food stamps.

Shellie has realized that she can now make a profit. Shellie gets pregnant again and has a girl. Her welfare check goes up to $850 a month. She also receives additional food stamps. Her rent is now down to $48 a month. She now has even more money to spend on drugs.

Shellie has another kid...Now she is pulling in $1000 a month, rent is $38 a month...more food stamps and more welfare.

Her 'man', as it turns out is a local drug dealer. He has no 'employment' yet drives a Lincoln Navigator. He 'stays' with Shellie frequently but she still has to pay him for her drugs. They do not tell Housing Authority that he is living there as it would violate her lease.

Shellie goes on to have a total of 5 children. Her drug habit has become such that even with the now $1700 a month in welfare checks, hundreds of dollars in food stamps and other allowances and a $28 a month rent, she cannot afford to clothe her children...her money goes to drugs and supporting her 'man' (even though he is a drug dealer and has his own income). The children are hungry, have no clothing except for a few hand-me-downs from the Salvation Army.

Now, an a$$hole like me has to come in and take her children away from her because she cannot care for them. When I get there, she is not at the house...just the 5 kids including an infant. Shellie arrives 1/2 hour later and tells me that 'This is F***ed up' because she will now lose most of her welfare money, food stamps, and her rent will go back up. That is the first thought she has about losing her kids...not about seperation of mother/children...not about where her kids will go, but where her money will come from. Her 'man' will also be pissed that she doesn't have the money coming in, so now she is worried about where she will get her drugs from.

I can absolutely, 100% guarantee you that giving shellie free rubbers or pills will NOT fix that situation at all...and this is the reason I agree that providing them for the poor is a waste of tax dollars and resources.

Stop punishing people for getting a job, and stop rewarding them for having more children. Put that money to get Shellie off of drugs, help her get a job, and reward her for getting a job instead of rewarding her for having children.

So, as I said, I am probably skewed and somewhat bitter in my previous response and I hope that what I see daily indicates why I am the way I am and why I said that.
 
Taylor said:
I can absolutely, 100% guarantee you that giving shellie free rubbers or pills will NOT fix that situation at all...and this is the reason I agree that providing them for the poor is a waste of tax dollars and resources.

I appreciate your prespective, and I appreciate your taking the time to share it too.

That said, it has been shown that free and easy access to contraceptives and sex-education significantly reduces the incidence of unplanned pregnancies, especially among teenagers. I am afraid that when drugs/alcohol are in the mix, all bets are off - these are people with impaired judgement and limited coping skills - so in Shellie's case, you may darn well be right, but Shellie is not every poor or young person out there. I want to see all kinds of better education and availability of services to help the Shellies of this country, and those who are not like her as well.
 
MorriganTait said:
I appreciate your prespective, and I appreciate your taking the time to share it too.

That said, it has been shown that free and easy access to contraceptives and sex-education significantly reduces the incidence of unplanned pregnancies, especially among teenagers. I am afraid that when drugs/alcohol are in the mix, all bets are off - these are people with impaired judgement and limited coping skills - so in Shellie's case, you may darn well be right, but Shellie is not every poor or young person out there. I want to see all kinds of better education and availability of services to help the Shellies of this country, and those who are not like her as well.

Morrigan,
You are correct and that is why I said that I was probably jaded. I can only speak of what I know (and guess at everything else ;) ) I deal with more families on welfare who live in the housing projects (what I would classify as poor). Unfortunately, drugs/alcohol play a large roll in the mix. If we were talking about a more simple problem, then IMO contraceptives would be more beneficial, but society's ills are much deeper than giving out condoms.
 
I can absolutely, 100% guarantee you that giving shellie free rubbers or pills will NOT fix that situation at all...and this is the reason I agree that providing them for the poor is a waste of tax dollars and resources.
Oh agreed......there is a small albielt significent percentage of druggies and or folks with REALLY poor decision making skills.......but access to rubbers and pills WOULD help the majority of poor folks. Hey, even the morning after pill would really help a lot of Shellies. I also think that they should require that if you're on welfare, that you should be in drug treatment.
 
Taylor said:
Her argument was that it was an inappropriate use of tax dollars...and I'm surprised that people here would disagree with her, other than she is a Republican. Nobody wants to pay taxes, but they want the state to pay for everything...even rubbers. Why should the state pick up the tab on contraceptives? Its not a matter of 'keeping the poor poor'...the goverment has no say in who you have sex with, how you have it, and whether you put on a rubber or not...how is your choice of sexual activities the governments responsibility to keep you from getting pregnant? That is your responsibility.

Like RoseImmortal said, I believe that contraceptives are essential, but why does everyone want the goverment to take care of the worlds ills...and yet want the goverment to stay out of their lives?

Here in Maryland, there are non-profit groups that give out free contraceptives (including abortion clinics) and these are readily available. There are also a variety of other programs available for the poor that do not need to be government funded.

Right on target, dude. Said everything I was thinking.
 
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