Literacy of Deaf People

[Desumon]

I can't even explain the pic (nor do I get it!) but Ill try. It's a black and white drawing cartoon. The first panel has a guy jumping and landing on the floor with his chest, pointing to a group of people who are looking at him. The second panel has a close-up of that guy on the floor saying "Grammar." The third panel has the floor guy watching as the group of people start attacking each other, their faces were greatly exaggerated with sharp teeth baring, eyes widened.

I understand how this comic fits into the topic but I don't understand the comic itself! Sorry desumon!

Yep, that's pretty much the gist of it.
The main point of the comic is to state how a random comment by a troll can inflame an entire forum. While nobody is going to call jihad just because someone said "Grammar," it does a good job as social/internet satire.
It was made from a template. Just blank out "Grammar." and replace it with something like "Bush was great." or "There is no god." for the same effect whenever/wherever you want.

 

[Desumon]

And I believe it is time for introductions.

'Tis I, the creator of the video, and (unfortunately) Zaicate's boyfriend. You may now bask in my glory. </sarcasm>

I joined this forum several months ago back when a certain supermod (he shall not be named) sent naughty videos of his hotdog (minus the mustard and relish) to my girlfriend via email. I have been infrequently lurking since then.

Now, to answer replies...



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It seems the maker of the video has contempt for deaf and will probably have a divorce in future.

All true. Except for the contempt thing. I have nothing but love for deaf people, and frequently go out of my way to defend them. As for the divorce thing... *points to Zaicate*

I thought it was a good opinion until the smart-aleck comment at the end of the video in regards to the sound file of people having sex and that we can't hear it.

Made me lose total respect for the said opinion.

If one wants to present a respectable opinion, they should without the expense of making fun of the Deaf community.

I did it for the lulz - Encyclopedia Dramatica

dont forget he insulted his own wife too.

Nah, you should see it when I REALLY insult her.

I lost respect for this too... I thought it's great vidoe clip but... Um, okay. Whatever. I do understand about grammar lessons and English writing skills that they have a hard time to deal with it, like I do. But only deaf people have that problem? No, not quite so...

I never once said deaf people are the only ones with said problems. Go to any MySpace page and you will see the product of the modern education system in action.

This is just the opinion of a person. Take it out of context, do with it what you choose. The longer Im deaf the less I care about grammatical differences or cuturally accepted jargon. He may not like what he sees on a paper or manuscript, but, I'll bet he understood it just fine. Isn't that the point, to be understood?

You can't make everybody happy. It's impossible. Sometimes, though difficult, one just has to sigh and understand we are all different. If they will not politely hear out your point of view just move on and appreciate those who are close to you and those who do.

Oh, well .... life is too short. Why worry ? Let this person be happy for who he/she really is. That person who created this video have to learn to accept deaf people who don't write in English very well. Accept them.

Exactly. It's a take-it-or-leave-it world. Trying to change someone because of their opinions is like trying to convert an Atheist into a Christian (which, in turn, is like trying to introduce someone with a severe cat allergy to a room full of kittens).
Just laugh it up, wave your hand dismissively, and move on.

While the creator of this video may have seemed a bit too blunt, I do agree with him in many ways.

I've never been known to sugar-coat words.

The person is very angry and many of their points if they were not directed directly at the D/deaf community would be valid.

Actually, I'm pretty happy. The only things that really anger me are furries, Christians, MySpace losers, furries, people in general, and furries. Did I mention I hate furries?

This creator of Youtube cannot just overgeneralize on the D/deaf community based on what he saw on Alldeaf.com and his wife.... The couple he knows that are drug addicts... I am sure there is reason behind being addicted to drugs... but that has nothing to do with being not grammaticially advanced....

The drugs are the primary factor in their laziness (that, and they prefer to leech off of government checks rather than be functional members of society). The laziness, caused by the drugs, is the primary factor in their inability to learn.

And, he might want to check the legal status of using a quote in a video for which he did not obtain permission.

Tell you what... go to your local law office and ask about the legal status of quoting a publicly-available post on the internet. While you're there, also ask about the Fair Use Policy and copyright laws. I'd love to hear what he/she says about it.

Took a look at the video, read the first 10 replies or so, skimmed the rest.

Regardless of what I think about the video -- I think -- or actually I KNOW the user is on the forum right now. I prefer to know more about the user than the video itself. Because the person that posts it, has the most influence.

What seems to be known about him:
- Definitely frequents our forum. If you're reading this right now, might want to watch out. I find that I like to play detective in mysteries, I'll give you a head start with a run for your money.
- Plays/ed A LOT of videogames.
- States he is 28 years old. I am assume it is a he, but I may be wrong.
- Likes Hentai/Anime
- Likes Cats and finds them cute.
- Has understanding of video encoding lingo, as it is shown throughout his clips. Probably understands moderate computer usage at minimum.
- Quote quid pro quo "As long as there are humans, there will be jealousy. As long as there is jealousy, there will be drama."
- Definitely has another handle or alias. I will find out should I get more free time, but not now.

- Self proclaimed die hard gamer for a game called Darkness.
-- This wiki list should be fine to refer to for "The Darkness" videogame. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Darkness_(video_game) the plot of the VG seems to focus on an emo world, or much rather just kill everything that's going crazy.

With all this info, I have to say. I don't take the original feed seriously.

Holy shit, man! You can divulge all of that just from looking at the video list and getting information that an 8 year old could get using the same investigation?
Are you a psychic? Can you tell me what tonight's winning lotto numbers are? Can you tell me when the world will end? Can you tell me if Elvis is really alive? DEAR GOD, MAN, THIS IS A MATTER OF LIFE AND DEATH, YOU MUST TELL ME!

Want proof? Just hit up myspace.com for plenty of evidence or yahoo answers. It can't be denied because, for one, there is plenty of substantiating evidence out there that non-deaf/HH people cannot speak coherently albeit string two sentences together in proper format.

As stated before, MySpace and similar sites are the cesspools of the internet. You can find horrible Engrish everywhere you go, hearing people included. I blame the modern education system and Bush's "No Child Left Behind" policy. The reason for making the video deaf-specific? Everyone else had done rants/videos/Indian smoke signals/whatever about the "popular" problem areas (read: MySpace, camwhores, etc), but deaf people are virtually an untouched territory.

Looks like someone needs to take their own "advise".

Nobody (unless you're an English Major professor) has perfect grammar. However, making a simple post unintelligible is inexcusable.



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I originally planned on having the video be about how the deaf community gets so defensive. I now have enough fodder to work with should I choose to make that video.

And so, in closing, I have just one thing to say... TROLL'D!

 

[dreama]

I perfectly understand you but it's where we disagree on same issue. Let me clarify - You said that poor written english skill is due to failed oralism for deaf. But I disagreed with that because written and spoken are different skill.

Yes you are right they are. However, if a deaf person is being made to spend a lot of time learning to speak to the exclusion of learing to read and write, or sign then they don't learn to read or write so well.

Whilst it is Possible for a HOH or very deaf person to pick up writing when using oral only methods, it's not possible if a person has NO useful hearing and isn't exposed to any form of visual communication methods. (ie BiBi, ASL, TC, SEE, or CS).

So these people are labeled as 'oral failures' and have huge language delays and extra communication problems. They have problems learning to write proper english because by the time they learn sign it's too late. That's what causes the most faulty grammar amongst the deaf. Shel has noticed that.

I think that we are on the same page here but I obviously didn't explain myself very well.

 

[Rio]

I agree. I love reading, and I read all the time. I've learned to develop an eye for what's good writing and tried to emulate that in my writing. I think it was an interest in being a writer that drove me to read grammar books from the library, to read books about other writers, books that explain how writers write, and to read about poetry and how others use it.

That said, what's important is people's attitude toward languages, cultures, and clarity in general. People who love languages and their powers will strive to be as clear as possible, to empathize with the readers and see things from their perspectives. They will think about how the readers might react, and revise their drafts accordingly. It's also, I think, learning a third or fourth language will help people understand the underlying structure of communication. I've only learned Spanish, but someday I will learn another language.

That's really cool your a writer. I am not a writer just love to communicate online/offline LOL I am an interpreter ASL/Spanish. I really love learning new words in ASl/English/Spanish. It really helps in my profession perhaps oneday I can write a book from life experiences in the Deaf world
I enjoy reading books about other people's lives its so fasincating. I read Jean Sasson books mostly a series about a princess escaping her country. I haven't continued lately, need to buy the next book

 

[dreama]

that's quite an unfair generalization you're making there, dreama. i was born with a mild hearing loss that progressed to moderately-severe by age 15 and i had absolutely no difficulties with the english language.

I am sorry but I'm not talking about people like us who were born HOH. I am talking about people who were born PROFOUNDLY DEAF WITH NO USEFUL HEARING.

It happens that some of these children get stuck in using the oral only aproach too. If they are not exposed to any visual clues how can they possibly manage?

 

[Frisky Feline]

Desumon, oh, you and Z were divorced and now you guys got back together? just clear up my mind from the youtube video.

 

[naisho]

asdf

So, what RPG do you play? Do you work at Jack in the box? Forgot to give Mr. Whatshisname his order of fries today and he ranted you out to your supervisor?

Sorry, I'll get off my soapbox. Just wanted to drop you a welcome since I didn't do that last night.

 

[Desumon]

Desumon, oh, you and Z were divorced and now you guys got back together? just clear up my mind from the youtube video.

Yep.
"Officially" we divorced because of "incompatibility issues."
But the truth is, she gets more from SSI being single than she does being married. I wanted to give her the best jump-start on her upcoming college education that she can get, to include getting more money to save for tuition, drivers license, whatever. We both agreed on it, and went ahead with the divorce. After all, marriage is nothing but a shiny piece of paper from the courthouse. It's the love and devotion that makes a relationship special.

 

[Desumon]

So, what RPG do you play? Do you work at Jack in the box?

1) What don't I play?
2) I don't think there's one of those around for miles.

 

[dreama]

it is black and white cartoon of people. ( i cant tell if they are girl or boy)


*first, the people stands looking down at the person when the person jumps landing on the floor with his finger points at the group.

*second, the close picture of the person who is on the floor saying "GRAMMAR!", still his finger points at the group.

*last, the group ended up fighting each other so violently. while the person on the flooor had big teeth smiling like *hehehe*.

Thanks for describing the picture for me and Hear again.

 

[Frisky Feline]

Yep.
"Officially" we divorced because of "incompatibility issues."
But the truth is, she gets more from SSI being single than she does being married. I wanted to give her the best jump-start on her upcoming college education that she can get, to include getting more money to save for tuition, drivers license, whatever. We both agreed on it, and went ahead with the divorce. After all, marriage is nothing but a shiny piece of paper from the courthouse. It's the love and devotion that makes a relationship special.

Gotcha, i wasn't asking you what happened between you guys. Just to clarify if you and her are the item. nothing more. tsk tsk about the SSI part.

 

[naisho]

Yep.
"Officially" we divorced because of "incompatibility issues."
But the truth is, she gets more from SSI being single than she does being married. I wanted to give her the best jump-start on her upcoming college education that she can get, to include getting more money to save for tuition, drivers license, whatever. We both agreed on it, and went ahead with the divorce. After all, marriage is nothing but a shiny piece of paper from the courthouse. It's the love and devotion that makes a relationship special.

So, wait.
Let me get this straight...
a. You hate crack dealers that siphon off the government. > Case noted.
b. You hate people that can't use grammar properly. > Case dully noted.
c. You created a video some months ago rambling about the incoherent usage of grammar of deaf people. > Also noted.
d. You married your G/F, but split with her so she can get some extra cash out of the process, while you guys are still together. > Smart, but wtf?

Dude, your sudden attempt on a AYBABTM against the deaf grammar world will fall on "deaf ears" (ironically). No one will really give two rat's crap to thinking twice over what you wanted to say on youtube.

Tis' the fact, you just gotta realize you're just trying to stir poop and brew trouble here till your topic gets locked up.

 

[Desumon]

Tis' the fact, you just gotta realize you're just trying to stir poop and brew trouble here till your topic gets locked up.

Never denied it.

Also, the video was created just days ago, not months. :P

 

[jillio]

And I believe it is time for introductions.

'Tis I, the creator of the video, and (unfortunately) Zaicate's boyfriend. You may now bask in my glory. </sarcasm>

I joined this forum several months ago back when a certain supermod (he shall not be named) sent naughty videos of his hotdog (minus the mustard and relish) to my girlfriend via email. I have been infrequently lurking since then.

Now, to answer replies...



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All true. Except for the contempt thing. I have nothing but love for deaf people, and frequently go out of my way to defend them. As for the divorce thing... *points to Zaicate*



I did it for the lulz - Encyclopedia Dramatica



Nah, you should see it when I REALLY insult her.



I never once said deaf people are the only ones with said problems. Go to any MySpace page and you will see the product of the modern education system in action.





Exactly. It's a take-it-or-leave-it world. Trying to change someone because of their opinions is like trying to convert an Atheist into a Christian (which, in turn, is like trying to introduce someone with a severe cat allergy to a room full of kittens).
Just laugh it up, wave your hand dismissively, and move on.



I've never been known to sugar-coat words.



Actually, I'm pretty happy. The only things that really anger me are furries, Christians, MySpace losers, furries, people in general, and furries. Did I mention I hate furries?



The drugs are the primary factor in their laziness (that, and they prefer to leech off of government checks rather than be functional members of society). The laziness, caused by the drugs, is the primary factor in their inability to learn.



Tell you what... go to your local law office and ask about the legal status of quoting a publicly-available post on the internet. While you're there, also ask about the Fair Use Policy and copyright laws. I'd love to hear what he/she says about it.



Holy shit, man! You can divulge all of that just from looking at the video list and getting information that an 8 year old could get using the same investigation?
Are you a psychic? Can you tell me what tonight's winning lotto numbers are? Can you tell me when the world will end? Can you tell me if Elvis is really alive? DEAR GOD, MAN, THIS IS A MATTER OF LIFE AND DEATH, YOU MUST TELL ME!



As stated before, MySpace and similar sites are the cesspools of the internet. You can find horrible Engrish everywhere you go, hearing people included. I blame the modern education system and Bush's "No Child Left Behind" policy. The reason for making the video deaf-specific? Everyone else had done rants/videos/Indian smoke signals/whatever about the "popular" problem areas (read: MySpace, camwhores, etc), but deaf people are virtually an untouched territory.



Nobody (unless you're an English Major professor) has perfect grammar. However, making a simple post unintelligible is inexcusable.



------------------------

I originally planned on having the video be about how the deaf community gets so defensive. I now have enough fodder to work with should I choose to make that video.

And so, in closing, I have just one thing to say... TROLL'D!

Simply because something is legal doesn't mean it is ethical. Quite obviously, you have no understanding of ethics.

And you are correct. No one has perfect grammar; which means, in effect, that you have no business finger pointing at an entire community until you have resolved your own deficiencies in that area.

Likewise, you have no business judging another on their "laziness" or their addiciton issues, as you are quite obviously unqualified to make those determinations. Lack of tolerance doesn't qualify you for anything other than being a judgemental individual with an overblown sense of his own superiority.

But thank you for confirming all of our suspicions regarding the nature of your character.

 

[jillio]

Yep.
"Officially" we divorced because of "incompatibility issues."
But the truth is, she gets more from SSI being single than she does being married. I wanted to give her the best jump-start on her upcoming college education that she can get, to include getting more money to save for tuition, drivers license, whatever. We both agreed on it, and went ahead with the divorce. After all, marriage is nothing but a shiny piece of paper from the courthouse. It's the love and devotion that makes a relationship special.

And you have the utter gall to judge someone else for "sucking the government's teat"?

 

[Desumon]

But thank you for confirming all of our suspicions regarding the nature of your character.

You are most welcome.

 

[Zaicate]

Naisho and Jillo,

Yes we both are on disability checks but MOST of the money goes to rent, bills, food, cat supplies (food, medicine, vet visits and etc) while we both (well.. I am trying to enroll in the same university as him next fall after I take my ACT on Feb 7th, wish me luck! ) are attending university and job hunting. I do not plan on staying on SSI for very long time, just until I get a VERY good job that make me feel confident that I could pay everything I need EVERY month without having to go "Oh fuck (pardon my language), I can't afford this bill next month because the paycheck is crappy". So SSI is basically my life-saving net right now, helping me stay afloat while I get everything I need then cut it off.. my boyfriend Desumon is the same way.
So we got divorced, yes.. those reasons Desumon listed was PART of the package but we both discovered that the marriage is not for us so we chose to be boyfriend/girlfriend.
So in sense, we are just using SSI for reasonable things (rent, bills, new clothes when we need it, food, cat supplies).

I started this thread to get OPINIONS and debate going on.. not to stir up any trouble or drama *jabs her boyfriend's side*

Jillo, Desumon have GREAT grasp on english (compared to some others, not just deaf people, mind you) but he is not perfect.. nobody is. But beside his reason (to provoke the deaf community), from what I can see is to ENCOURAGE deaf people to prove him wrong by picking up a book or pen and paper (I noticed I have been repeating this over and over XD; Sorry guys! ) and IMPROVE themselves.. there is ALWAYS room for more improvement!
As you can see, my english is FAR from perfect but I am trying.. I am currently studying the english part of the ACT practice book I have so I could improve myself.

 

[naisho]

Well, thanks for calming him down then. Keep the topic healthy and drama free and we can discuss this like gentlemen and gentlewomen.


I want to say, if you are currently working on your grammar then good for you. No, I'm not being sarcastic for those who have seen my sarcasm around the forum. I'm actually proud that you're taking that extra step to prove that you are capable of what you can do.

It's just your boyfriend conveyed it in such a negative way and replied so curtly to us, all I could feel was like watching a hopeless bully beating on a little kid, and it was time I stepped in. But now I read your post, I understand actually to what's going on, minus the negativity.

The deaf community has no harm in gaining proper grammatical use. There's nothing bad that can come out of it, that I can imagine - what's wrong with a few extra words in your sentences, unless you're lazy!



Now with that's that is my true opinion about those who are TRYING to work on their grammar. Not those who are insulted on their grammar.


By the way, even though your reasoning for going on SSI may seem valid, and I can see why you're doing it -- you have to realize there is two sides to every story, and a consequence in everything you do. While I was at college at my university, we learned about the percentages and statistics of divorce. Now knowing to what some people are actually doing, I would have no doubt to believe that some of the statistics in my studies (one researched divorce rates) were skewed off by some people who did these. So just saying, I can forgive you once but please don't stay on it longer than you need to and I won't respect you if you know you're past the point you still need to be on it. You have to understand, if everyone thought of doing this, our government would be in chaos. That's what is being dealt with.

But I'll step down on this issue, as this isn't the center of this debate.

 

[jillio]

Naisho and Jillo,

Yes we both are on disability checks but MOST of the money goes to rent, bills, food, cat supplies (food, medicine, vet visits and etc) while we both (well.. I am trying to enroll in the same university as him next fall after I take my ACT on Feb 7th, wish me luck! ) are attending university and job hunting. I do not plan on staying on SSI for very long time, just until I get a VERY good job that make me feel confident that I could pay everything I need EVERY month without having to go "Oh fuck (pardon my language), I can't afford this bill next month because the paycheck is crappy". So SSI is basically my life-saving net right now, helping me stay afloat while I get everything I need then cut it off.. my boyfriend Desumon is the same way.
So we got divorced, yes.. those reasons Desumon listed was PART of the package but we both discovered that the marriage is not for us so we chose to be boyfriend/girlfriend.
So in sense, we are just using SSI for reasonable things (rent, bills, new clothes when we need it, food, cat supplies).

I started this thread to get OPINIONS and debate going on.. not to stir up any trouble or drama *jabs her boyfriend's side*

Jillo, Desumon have GREAT grasp on english (compared to some others, not just deaf people, mind you) but he is not perfect.. nobody is. But beside his reason (to provoke the deaf community), from what I can see is to ENCOURAGE deaf people to prove him wrong by picking up a book or pen and paper (I noticed I have been repeating this over and over XD; Sorry guys! ) and IMPROVE themselves.. there is ALWAYS room for more improvement!
As you can see, my english is FAR from perfect but I am trying.. I am currently studying the english part of the ACT practice book I have so I could improve myself.

I suggest he spend some time improving himself prior to attempting to dictate what anyone else needs to do to improve.

And, no matter what the money is spent on, it is still judgemental and hypocritical for him to degrade one person for being on SSI, when he has admitted, in public, that he and you are manipulating the system in order to receive more free gvernment money. I certainly hope that no one working for SSA reads your posts.

 

[jillio]

I've got a question for you, Zaicate. Why is it perfectly acceptable for you to post a video made by your boyfriend suggesting that an entire community of people improve to some arbitrary standards he has set, and yet you get so defensive when it it suggested that, he as well, could stand to improve?