Literacy of Deaf People

shel90

Audist are not welcome
Premium Member
yes but look at AD. there are several ASL ADers who have trouble with writing English writing language properly and I don't blame them. It's this damn confusing education system for deaf that has yet been established by federal government. :mad2:

And there are several ADers who grew up with ASL as their first and primary languages but have excellent English skills.

ASL is not the problem...everyone is different. If ASL was the problem then all hearing people should have perfect grammar but since they dont, then something else is the problem.
 

shel90

Audist are not welcome
Premium Member
The deaf community will ALWAYS defend themselves in terms like this. One statement that is repeated is that a lot of hearing people have poor English skills too, but let's say that an extensive study was made and there indeed is a much larger percentage of deaf adults who have less than high school literacy than hearing people. Do you think deaf people will then admit "Okay maybe we need to kick up on our literacy"? Nope, there's a lot of other things to blame "English is hard", "My language was delayed", "Why should I work harder for the damn hearing world?" and so on.

You should not judge people just because you saw that they have bad grammar in a forum or something because you know nothing about them. However, if I meet someone, got to know them a bit, and realize that they have really bad grammar because they didn't make the effort, I will be irked.


At least with native ASL users, they are bilingual because English is their 2nd language ..how many hearing people are fluent in two languages especially in the written form of their 2nd language?
 

shel90

Audist are not welcome
Premium Member
Yeah, that's one big problem...

They say two things:

"English is so hard!" "They should take it easy on us cuz we're deaf!" "I can't help it if my ASL makes me like this."

"I wish hearing people would treat us deaf people as equals!"

Well, that's the problem... if deaf people want hearing people to treat them as equals, then they should suck up and learn everything just as hearing people did. If hearing people learned English, then deaf people should learn English too.

By using your logic, hearing people should learn ASL.
 

Zaicate

New Member
@ Naisho: I don't know if it will keep him away from making more posts (since I don't believe in telling him to stop doing what he want to do since I think its controlling and he more likely will resist me on that) but we will have to see. As long as people in here don't rise to his bait and give him what he want (indignation, anger AIMED toward him, and negative things that is not related to Literacy of Deaf People - not sure if I got the 'title' correctly but I will look it up), he won't have any reason to come in here and keep doing what he is currently doing. AKA ignore him if he don't contribute to the discussion but you guys will have to admit, he DOES have good points (in here AND in the video. Just pretend the crack he made about us not being able to hear the sound at the end is not IN the video).
Just a comment before we return to the center issue here about the SSI thing, maybe I should make this thread based on literacy and SSI issue for deaf people since that way, we can continue discussing about this issue.
ANYWAY! Like I say, I am only on SSI so it could help me get things I need (education, bills paid off, rent paid, food, cat supplies (since I MUST have a cat for companion and snuggle time whenever boyfriend don't feel like it LOL), and etc. Right now the economy is terrible so chances of finding a job is really slim so I have decided to focus on my education (ACT, get in the university) but between those events, I will be trying to find a job that will HELP me get out of my debts AND move me up from lower class (poverty) to middle class.
Desumon is using his SSI check for HIS own stuff and I am using my SSI checks for MY own stuff. Only time we share the money is when rent and bills pops up or when one of us runs out of the money (usually near the end of the month). So I don't really see this as us taking advantage of the government.
But let me repeat myself, I do not intend on staying on SSI for my entire life.. just until I get back on my feet WITH good job, WITH my own place (maybe a mobile home), WITH good education so I can get good job. It will be awhile but at least I am DOING something about it
. :)

Anyway.. literacy of deaf people.... hm..

@ Jillo: He is NOT dictating you guys to IMPROVE, he wants to encourage you and let you know his opinions (no crime being committed here) but I can see that you are letting your personal feelings about him cloud your thinking process so all I am asking of you is to relax, take a deep breath and try to see from my point of view. I CAN see your reasons from YOUR point of view along with REST of others that have posted in here. I hold no hard feelings toward you guys and I am asking the same from you.

At least he didn't degrade EVERYBODY that is on SSI, right? He only targeted those two because they are jobless (and have no desire in finding one, since it have been years since they had a job), no educations and have no interest in getting any (except for the woman but I think she only want to get GED then forget about it), and they do drugs. Granted, BAD example for the video.. that I can give you but its one of the examples.
Again, no we are not manipulating the system, READ the underlined portion of my response to Naisho because I don't feel like repeating myself over and over.

TL;DR?
Desumon don't get any of my SSI money, I don't get any of his unless one of us REALLY need some money (aka running out of the money before the month is up) and the only time we 'share' the money is when the rent and bills are here.
And who is being judgmental right now? :hmm:
 

hohDougRN

New Member
The thing that rubs me the wrong way about this whole topic and debate is the spiteful nature the OP volunteered his authorship to the controversial topic as well as the stated satisfaction of 'riling' everybody up.

Did you or not in so many words say that 'we' divulge too much information that is needed that is not necessary for the rest of us needs to know. Well my friend, what a sorrowful example of hypocracy. Not to mention turning a former relationship which was private into a public agenda that you appeared to make yourself into anything BUT a class act. I cannot think of any other statement than shame on you.

You could have just left your original post open to interpretation. Instead I feel your further 'gratification' in being an adjunct to all this animosity is plain foolishness. If you expected this solely as a means to add a point to a debate, you only showed our community that your unethical, egocentrism is at the center of your soul- not intelligence.

Save your agenda from the rest of us, and spare yourself a few gratification points. PM me with any other comments and condescending or betraying comments and spare the rest of the good prople here of proof of your poor conduct.
 

shel90

Audist are not welcome
Premium Member
The thing that rubs me the wrong way about this whole topic and debate is the spiteful nature the OP volunteered his authorship to the controversial topic as well as the stated satisfaction of 'riling' everybody up.

Did you or not in so many words say that 'we' divulge too much information that is needed that is not necessary for the rest of us needs to know. Well my friend, what a sorrowful example of hypocracy. Not to mention turning a former relationship which was private into a public agenda that you appeared to make yourself into anything BUT a class act. I cannot think of any other statement than shame on you.

You could have just left your original post open to interpretation. Instead I feel your further 'gratification' in being an adjunct to all this animosity is plain foolishness. If you expected this solely as a means to add a point to a debate, you only showed our community that your unethical, egocentrism is at the center of your soul- not intelligence.

Save your agenda from the rest of us, and spare yourself a few gratification points. PM me with any other comments and condescending or betraying comments and spare the rest of the good prople here of proof of your poor conduct.

Damn! Great posting! I chose to ignore the offending remarks in the video cuz I am so used to hearing people making generalizations like that about deaf people. Nothing new here..:roll:
 

Zaicate

New Member
I've got a question for you, Zaicate. Why is it perfectly acceptable for you to post a video made by your boyfriend suggesting that an entire community of people improve to some arbitrary standards he has set, and yet you get so defensive when it it suggested that, he as well, could stand to improve?

Defensive? :giggle:
Naw. Not defensive, I do agree that he SHOULD/COULD improve in some areas. But we are not here to talk about him, are we? we are talking about LITERACY of Deaf people. Desumon is not deaf so its moot point for us to talk about him. :)

@ hohDougRN:
you have a GREAT point there. But I do not get any satisification from riling everybody up which is NOT MY INTENTION. It MIGHT be Desumon's intention but it is NOT MINE. I posted it in here so I can get you people's opinions and input so I can debate or discuss this with you guys. Truth to be told, I feel awkward (I have no idea why, to be honest) when I come in here and try to interact with people. So I decided to make a thread that will 'slide' me into the site because I wanted to discuss about things that I feel strongly about. But it blew up in my face when Desumon decided to post.
Believe me, he is HIGHLY intelligent.. but he just use his intelligence for wrong things :|
 

jillio

New Member
@ Naisho: I don't know if it will keep him away from making more posts (since I don't believe in telling him to stop doing what he want to do since I think its controlling and he more likely will resist me on that) but we will have to see. As long as people in here don't rise to his bait and give him what he want (indignation, anger AIMED toward him, and negative things that is not related to Literacy of Deaf People - not sure if I got the 'title' correctly but I will look it up), he won't have any reason to come in here and keep doing what he is currently doing. AKA ignore him if he don't contribute to the discussion but you guys will have to admit, he DOES have good points (in here AND in the video. Just pretend the crack he made about us not being able to hear the sound at the end is not IN the video).
Just a comment before we return to the center issue here about the SSI thing, maybe I should make this thread based on literacy and SSI issue for deaf people since that way, we can continue discussing about this issue.
ANYWAY! Like I say, I am only on SSI so it could help me get things I need (education, bills paid off, rent paid, food, cat supplies (since I MUST have a cat for companion and snuggle time whenever boyfriend don't feel like it LOL), and etc. Right now the economy is terrible so chances of finding a job is really slim so I have decided to focus on my education (ACT, get in the university) but between those events, I will be trying to find a job that will HELP me get out of my debts AND move me up from lower class (poverty) to middle class.
Desumon is using his SSI check for HIS own stuff and I am using my SSI checks for MY own stuff. Only time we share the money is when rent and bills pops up or when one of us runs out of the money (usually near the end of the month). So I don't really see this as us taking advantage of the government.
But let me repeat myself, I do not intend on staying on SSI for my entire life.. just until I get back on my feet WITH good job, WITH my own place (maybe a mobile home), WITH good education so I can get good job. It will be awhile but at least I am DOING something about it
. :)

Anyway.. literacy of deaf people.... hm..

@ Jillo: He is NOT dictating you guys to IMPROVE, he wants to encourage you and let you know his opinions (no crime being committed here) but I can see that you are letting your personal feelings about him cloud your thinking process so all I am asking of you is to relax, take a deep breath and try to see from my point of view. I CAN see your reasons from YOUR point of view along with REST of others that have posted in here. I hold no hard feelings toward you guys and I am asking the same from you.

Actually, I have no personal feelings about him. I do, however, have an objection to paternalistic and judgemental treatment of others, and he hasa adequately demonstrated both. I have no hard feelings, either. However, I would be ethically remiss if I did not speak out against the propogation of stereotypes and paternalism. Perhaps you are comfortable with that sort of treatment from him, and if so, that is great. However, just because you find it acceptable does not mean that an entire community should find it acceptable. You have a personal relationship with him, which affects your tolerance of his behavior. We do not have a personal relationship with him, and are under no obligation to accept such.

At least he didn't degrade EVERYBODY that is on SSI, right?
So you think it is justifiable for him to degrade even one person, given the fact that he has already admitted to manipulating the system, and has, in fact, placed both of you in danger of getting assessed for overpayments that you will have to pay back? He only targeted those two because they are jobless (and have no desire in finding one, since it have been years since they had a job), no educations and have no interest in getting any (except for the woman but I think she only want to get GED then forget about it), and they do drugs. Granted, BAD example for the video.. that I can give you but its one of the examples.
Again, no we are not manipulating the system, READ the underlined portion of my response to Naisho because I don't feel like repeating myself over and over.

Getting divorced in order to receive more in SSI benefits is indeed manipulating the system.TL;DR?
Desumon don't get any of my SSI money, I don't get any of his unless one of us REALLY need some money (aka running out of the money before the month is up) and the only time we 'share' the money is when the rent and bills are here.

Sounds to me like you are doing quite a bit of sharing, given that rent and bills are the majority of one's living expense.And who is being judgmental right now? :hmm:

Hey, when you put yourself in the position of judging others, you also place yourself in the position of being judged.
 

naisho

Forum Disorders M.D.,Ph.D
Good way of summing it up, Doug, you really deserve my praise in that. I was saving up my 777th post for something good, and here it is.

I also have to say to some of you guys here -- not towards anyone in specific --- don't quote big wall-o-text too much, personally for me I don't mind sometimes, but when I'm on my laptop I find having to scroll past that gigantomungo wall of text annoying. I can only imagine that it'll be worse for PDA, treo and iphone users.

Anyways, back on topic.
Let's toss out the SSI and human morals thing out of the brain clusterstorm right now. The OP wants to discuss about deaf people and their grammar usage, if we want to discuss about the OP we can simply open another thread regarding SSI and people that leech off of it; and refer to Desumon/Zaicate as an example for everyone else to give their opinions, etc (No offense to you Zaicate, it's an eye for an eye) . I feel that this topic is a good contribution and can set role standards for others as a whole, despite the negative implorations Desumon attempted on it.

So we'll just pretend the fact that they weren't using SSI and we never read it, so here we are mulling over the grammar bits. It probably stings like a mofo to gulp this down, and I personally can feel it - but if we don't want this topic to be locked up, better to do so.


remember - Desu-mon clearly stated that he attempted to troll us and he also got that satisfaction that we were trolled.
 

jillio

New Member
The thing that rubs me the wrong way about this whole topic and debate is the spiteful nature the OP volunteered his authorship to the controversial topic as well as the stated satisfaction of 'riling' everybody up.

Did you or not in so many words say that 'we' divulge too much information that is needed that is not necessary for the rest of us needs to know. Well my friend, what a sorrowful example of hypocracy. Not to mention turning a former relationship which was private into a public agenda that you appeared to make yourself into anything BUT a class act. I cannot think of any other statement than shame on you.

You could have just left your original post open to interpretation. Instead I feel your further 'gratification' in being an adjunct to all this animosity is plain foolishness. If you expected this solely as a means to add a point to a debate, you only showed our community that your unethical, egocentrism is at the center of your soul- not intelligence.

Save your agenda from the rest of us, and spare yourself a few gratification points. PM me with any other comments and condescending or betraying comments and spare the rest of the good prople here of proof of your poor conduct.

Good post!
 

hohDougRN

New Member
Oh no, Zaicate, none of that post was directed toward your comments, please pardon me for not clarification of to whom it was directed to in my heading.
 

jillio

New Member
Defensive? :giggle:
Naw. Not defensive, I do agree that he SHOULD/COULD improve in some areas. But we are not here to talk about him, are we? we are talking about LITERACY of Deaf people. Desumon is not deaf so its moot point for us to talk about him. :)

Why,yes we are discussing him as the autor of the video, and especially since he identified himself as such. By doing so, he opened himself to discussion. And it would appear, from the postings in this thread, that his literacy is more of a concern than that of the deaf posters.@ hohDougRN:
you have a GREAT point there. But I do not get any satisification from riling everybody up which is NOT MY INTENTION. It MIGHT be Desumon's intention but it is NOT MINE. I posted it in here so I can get you people's opinions and input so I can debate or discuss this with you guys. Truth to be told, I feel awkward (I have no idea why, to be honest) when I come in here and try to interact with people. So I decided to make a thread that will 'slide' me into the site because I wanted to discuss about things that I feel strongly about. But it blew up in my face when Desumon decided to post.
Believe me, he is HIGHLY intelligent.. but he just use his intelligence for wrong things :|

He certainly does not present himself as a highly intelligent individual.
 

Zaicate

New Member
I do not judge other people, Jillo. How many times do I have to repeat that? And frankly, I go by this motto- "Judge me all you want, but keep the verdict to yourself" AKA think whatever you want, I don't care :)
So.. judge me all you want, Jillo.. feel free to do that. I will just believe what I want to believe (unless someone give me the STURDY proof that will change my reasoning for the belief).
I might have a personal relationship with Desumon but I do not take that crap from him. But I have learned to ignore his comments that pisses me off and tell him to STFU (basically). You guys might not have a great tolerance for people talking badly about Deaf community and culture but I do because I have been seeing it ALL OVER the damn world and net. I have learned that it is NOT WORTH getting worked over when you could have just calmly prove them wrong without getting all riled up (which MOST of them would like to see).
I have SO much to say about this but I am going to refrain myself and perhaps make another thread because I am getting quite annoyed right now with your posts, Jillo.

Did you NOT read the part that we got divorced.. but NOT for JUST those reasons? If you want, I CAN tell you the full story about the reason of the divorce over the PM. :| I do NOT use the government like that, period. I only use SSI to get things I need.. not things like games, jewelry, hair stuff, or WHATEVER like MOST of people I know.

In one simple sentence: Be quiet about the SSI issue, Jillo. I do not want to hear it, I do not want to discuss it. If you want to make a thread in this subforum about SSI thing, go for it. But this thread is for Literacy of Deaf People, not "Ganging up on Zaicate because her boyfriend is a douchebag (I bet you guys are thinking of that)".


Thank you, Naisho. I really appreciate that. :)
 

Zaicate

New Member
@ hohDougRN: All right. My bad :)

@ Jillo: again, you don't know anything about him so refrain from making those comments please. I am tired of trying to explain things to people that won't listen. And this is not a thread for this kind of topic. So let's get back to the REAL topic, shall we?
 

shel90

Audist are not welcome
Premium Member
@ hohDougRN: All right. My bad :)

@ Jillo: again, you don't know anything about him so refrain from making those comments please. I am tired of trying to explain things to people that won't listen. And this is not a thread for this kind of topic. So let's get back to the REAL topic, shall we?[/QUOTE


How about an apology from your boyfriend cuz it did come across as putting the Deaf community down especially here on AD when in the past, there has been hurt feelings or arguments about grammar skills and SSI especially by hearing poeple in the past?
 

Zaicate

New Member
@ hohDougRN: All right. My bad :)

@ Jillo: again, you don't know anything about him so refrain from making those comments please. I am tired of trying to explain things to people that won't listen. And this is not a thread for this kind of topic. So let's get back to the REAL topic, shall we?[/QUOTE


How about an apology from your boyfriend cuz it did come across as putting the Deaf community down especially here on AD when in the past, there has been hurt feelings or arguments about grammar skills and SSI especially by hearing poeple in the past?


I don't know if I can get him to do it, to be honest :| He more likely won't apologize. But I will apologize for him.
 

naisho

Forum Disorders M.D.,Ph.D
@ hohDougRN: All right. My bad :)

@ Jillo: again, you don't know anything about him so refrain from making those comments please. I am tired of trying to explain things to people that won't listen. And this is not a thread for this kind of topic. So let's get back to the REAL topic, shall we?

I'm going to stand up for jillio here, attempt to be a middleman, and say that it's desumon and the initial posts that got her riled up. You aren't doing any better by talking back to her, because it's still an attempt to weasel out of the wrongdoing. It's like, think if your post about the deaf and grammar stuff was greeted with "fuck you", "why are you posting this" and "who the hell are you posting here?" even though you presented the material in orderly and fashionable form. Don't take it personally, I wasn't talking in that aspect.

She's very fair in retrospect to morals, but when she sees wrongdoings, or negative acts, she does her job as an american to stand up for the values she believes in. Some people are just mutes, they just see things, quiet and pipe up and walk away. Some people voice out their thoughts about what they think is unjustifiable.

With this in regard, and hopefully Desu-mon eventually reading this, please refrain yourself from having to feel inclined to speak out and stand down to let the discussion regarding grammar and deaf continue. (Desu-mon asked for it when he jumped up with the SSI thing in the first place)
 

jillio

New Member
I do not judge other people, Jillo. How many times do I have to repeat that? And frankly, I go by this motto- "Judge me all you want, but keep the verdict to yourself" AKA think whatever you want, I don't care :)

Nor did I say that you did judge people. I was referring to your ex-husband.
So.. judge me all you want, Jillo.. feel free to do that. I will just believe what I want to believe (unless someone give me the STURDY proof that will change my reasoning for the belief).

Nor am I judging you. Simply pointing out that Desumon is judging others for things that he, himself is guilty of.I might have a personal relationship with Desumon but I do not take that crap from him. But I have learned to ignore his comments that pisses me off and tell him to STFU (basically). You guys might not have a great tolerance for people talking badly about Deaf community and culture but I do because I have been seeing it ALL OVER the damn world and net. I have learned that it is NOT WORTH getting worked over when you could have just calmly prove them wrong without getting all riled up (which MOST of them would like to see).
And, quite frankly, what several of us are saying to him is STFU. So why do you object to that?
I have SO much to say about this but I am going to refrain myself and perhaps make another thread because I am getting quite annoyed right now with your posts, Jillo.

I'm sorry that you are getting annoyed. I thought your intent was to debate.

Did you NOT read the part that we got divorced.. but NOT for JUST those reasons? If you want, I CAN tell you the full story about the reason of the divorce over the PM. :| I do NOT use the government like that, period. I only use SSI to get things I need.. not things like games, jewelry, hair stuff, or WHATEVER like MOST of people I know.

Yes, I read the post. I personally could care less why you divorced. But the SSA might.

In one simple sentence: Be quiet about the SSI issue, Jillo. I do not want to hear it, I do not want to discuss it. If you want to make a thread in this subforum about SSI thing, go for it. But this thread is for Literacy of Deaf People, not "Ganging up on Zaicate because her boyfriend is a douchebag (I bet you guys are thinking of that)".
I did not bring the issue of SSI into this. Your ex-husband did.

Thank you, Naisho. I really appreciate that. :)

So much for debate, I guess.
 

jillio

New Member
I'm going to stand up for jillio here, attempt to be a middleman, and say that it's desumon and the initial posts that got her riled up. You aren't doing any better by talking back to her, because it's still an attempt to weasel out of the wrongdoing. It's like, think if your post about the deaf and grammar stuff was greeted with "fuck you", "why are you posting this" and "who the hell are you posting here?" even though you presented the material in orderly and fashionable form. Don't take it personally, I wasn't talking in that aspect.

She's very fair in retrospect to morals, but when she sees wrongdoings, or negative acts, she does her job as an american to stand up for the values she believes in. Some people are just mutes, they just see things, quiet and pipe up and walk away. Some people voice out their thoughts about what they think is unjustifiable.

With this in regard, and hopefully Desu-mon eventually reading this, please refrain yourself from having to feel inclined to speak out and stand down to let the discussion regarding grammar and deaf continue. (Desu-mon asked for it when he jumped up with the SSI thing in the first place)

:ty: naisho.
 
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