Is it worth to be "oral"?

[shel90]

The assertions aren't wrong for all oral deaf people. They may be wrong for you, but you don't represent everyone.

So you are equally annoying and unable to read the experiences of others..

You are just the other side of the ridiculous overly assertive coin.

I had to leave class several times a week for speech services. Who knows what education I have missed out on?

 

[dogmom]

I wanted to give many others a chance to express before I came in.

I was in speech therapy was also "pull-out" - separate building with a whole bunch of "special needs" students.

My experience may be similar to BeckLak's on a lesser/different scale. I found that if I sign and speak <which I know is not ASL> , or go voice-off, people are much more likely to help me out in communication/be patient...useful for me since I can take longer to process what is said, if I hear it, and can have difficulty with other comprehension, based on subject. I do have speech differences that make it harder for people to understand me.
If I speak, people assume I hear fine, or make other assumptions.

 

[caz12]

I too am severe to profound in one ear and 100% deaf in the other. I was a product of both deaf school and mainstreamed. Today I'm oral with a spattering of rusty ASL. As you know, being oral in a hearing world is not easy and it sure can feel terribly isolating at times.

Sylbea... I wholeheartedly agree that learning BSL is the right route to go. Don't hesitate. Don't let others stop or discourage you ok? It does open a huge door for you socially. You will feel as if you belong. You will realize what you had been missing all those years.... a sense of belonging.

Btw, in case you're not aware of this, Princess Diana learned BSL and joined the British Deaf Association!

she did not learn that much.
i dont think it possible to equate yourself to Keller,her times were hard and she was used as one of those people that overcome miseries of life as all oralist expect us to aspire to it unfair.
i bsl myself so go for it. i felt bit like you but my deafness was sudden so oral skills there.it was not easy to learn bsl to fluency but when i did life was enriched. do you live in suffolk?

 

[deafdyke]

I had to leave class several times a week for speech services. Who knows what education I have missed out on?

Right on girl! The trouble is, that dhh kids can only experiance the SHADOW of spoken language....even those of us who are really good hearing instrument (whether CI OR HA) users........a shadow of a language/experiance is NOT as good as the real actual thing.....

 

[kokonut]

Right on girl! The trouble is, that dhh kids can only experiance the SHADOW of spoken language....even those of us who are really good hearing instrument (whether CI OR HA) users........a shadow of a language/experiance is NOT as good as the real actual thing.....

All I need is one example to show the gross over-generalization regarding the so-called "shadow of a spoken language" as false. That example would be Vinton Cerf, the father of the internet. Vinton Cerf was born with a hearing loss and wears hearing aids in both ears. He has absolutely no problem speaking and interacting with his audience the full and complete use of the spoken language as the real deal.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDhXnKY2hP4

 

[KikLove]

Throwing in my two cents but he sounds "normal" to me. I wouldn't have even know him to have a hearing loss because he sounds just fine. He sounds more "normal" than I do since English is my second language.

So my assumption by hearing him talk "normally" is that he wouldn't have a hearing loss since birth. Nice to know that he did so I wouldn't make that assumption that just because they talk "good" doesn't mean there isn't a hearing loss present.

Though the girl I knew growing up who was deaf still sounded like she had deaf accent and she was oral and knew sign language (went to a deaf school for several years of her life). She spoke very well but she also chose to sign at times when she wanted to. I don't know the amount of her hearing loss but she never acquired "normal speech" either.

However, Prince Phillip's mother was profoundly deaf and I watched a video of her speaking before...she seemed to have a small 'accent' but her accent being British I couldn't tell.

Each person is different and the above examples is just one to prove that people chose on how they want to communicate and use their oral skills, if they have them in situations they chose.

Some HOH/deaf people have been pointed out to have clear speech and yet there are even children with normal hearing who don't sound normal.

Though I don't blame people for going choosing not to speak because they may sound "funny" (not quite the same but how I can sorta relate to people poking fun at how you don't sound "normal" because of your speech, in a different manner than those here on the forum however) but there are times that oral skills may be handy just as signing/whatever skills can be handy.

I remember learning English I had to beg people to speak slowly simply because English was so weird to me. I learned to communicate in time, in my own manner.

I guess the language example is not the best but luckily with all of these experiences I've read about it is nice to have some opinions on some and learn that certain approaches are not best for all.

Personally, if I had a deaf/HOH child I would use some speech therapy and use ASL as an approach. I think deafdyke has mentioned that before in some posts in other threads...I think after reading both sides I would want my child to have a way they could get by but I wouldn't want to make them miserable either by being forced to only have an oral approach. However, I'd also want my child to have a bit of oral skills in case they needed them for emergencies or so forth.

I guess my approach would be a bad one but I'd jump on the opportunity for my child to know two languages...would help them later in life either way.

Though...I dunno if my opinion really helps either argument here.

 

[ambrosia]

Right on girl! The trouble is, that dhh kids can only experiance the SHADOW of spoken language....even those of us who are really good hearing instrument (whether CI OR HA) users........a shadow of a language/experiance is NOT as good as the real actual thing.....

What I want to know is what exactly is your point. So what if hearing aids and CI aren't exactly like hearing. We know duh. So why are you saying this, what did this have to do with whether or not it's worth it to be oral. Are saying since it's not exactly like hearing we shouldn't bother?

What's your point Captain Obvious?

 

[kokonut]

Throwing in my two cents but he sounds "normal" to me. I wouldn't have even know him to have a hearing loss because he sounds just fine. He sounds more "normal" than I do since English is my second language.

So my assumption by hearing him talk "normally" is that he wouldn't have a hearing loss since birth. Nice to know that he did so I wouldn't make that assumption that just because they talk "good" doesn't mean there isn't a hearing loss present.

Though the girl I knew growing up who was deaf still sounded like she had deaf accent and she was oral and knew sign language (went to a deaf school for several years of her life). She spoke very well but she also chose to sign at times when she wanted to. I don't know the amount of her hearing loss but she never acquired "normal speech" either.

However, Prince Phillip's mother was profoundly deaf and I watched a video of her speaking before...she seemed to have a small 'accent' but her accent being British I couldn't tell.

Each person is different and the above examples is just one to prove that people chose on how they want to communicate and use their oral skills, if they have them in situations they chose.

Some HOH/deaf people have been pointed out to have clear speech and yet there are even children with normal hearing who don't sound normal.

Though I don't blame people for going choosing not to speak because they may sound "funny" (not quite the same but how I can sorta relate to people poking fun at how you don't sound "normal" because of your speech, in a different manner than those here on the forum however) but there are times that oral skills may be handy just as signing/whatever skills can be handy.

I remember learning English I had to beg people to speak slowly simply because English was so weird to me. I learned to communicate in time, in my own manner.

I guess the language example is not the best but luckily with all of these experiences I've read about it is nice to have some opinions on some and learn that certain approaches are not best for all.

Personally, if I had a deaf/HOH child I would use some speech therapy and use ASL as an approach. I think deafdyke has mentioned that before in some posts in other threads...I think after reading both sides I would want my child to have a way they could get by but I wouldn't want to make them miserable either by being forced to only have an oral approach. However, I'd also want my child to have a bit of oral skills in case they needed them for emergencies or so forth.

I guess my approach would be a bad one but I'd jump on the opportunity for my child to know two languages...would help them later in life either way.

Though...I dunno if my opinion really helps either argument here.

What you have showed is that you understand that the range of speaking ability among deaf and HH people go from just having intelligibile speech enough so for people to understand even with a heavy deaf accent to people who speak you wouldnt even suspect the person was born with a hearing loss. Look up Sarah Churman video in Youtube with Ellen DeGeneres, listening to her you wouldnt think she was born with a hearing loss. There is a video of a deaf girl probably like 3 or 4 years old who was implanted very early with a CI of her speaking in a cute southern voice playing with her hearing cousin both of them listening and babbling on with their southern accent like best friends. But watching that video you couldnt tell which one was wearing her CI hidden underneath her hair. Their are examples after examples on the breadth of speaking ability and skills.

Combining an oral/aural approach with a heavy emphasis on visual communication is a good idea. Again, factors and circumstances can play a role on the decision and outcome.

 

[shel90]

The problem with that view is that society generally applies it to all deaf/hoh people. If they see one person who is deaf and has no problem interacting with hearing people using speech, they tend to assume that all deaf/hoh can do it and if they don't, then that means something is wrong with them. Like they are failures, didn't try hard enough, not as bright and etc.

Then society oppresses them especially in the job market. So, it is a double edge sword.

 

[tomm]

The assertions aren't wrong for all oral deaf people. They may be wrong for you, but you don't represent everyone.

So you are equally annoying and unable to read the experiences of others..

You are just the other side of the ridiculous overly assertive coin.

Have I ever claimed to represent everyone? No. Have I ever made any statements/assertion that I claim is true for the whole group? No. So GTFA and think of a better retort than that.

I do feel sorry for DeafDyke that she had the experiences that she had, but I do not feel sorry for highlighting the fact that she is taking her experiences and applying it to the whole of the group.

 

[Bottesini]

Have I ever claimed to represent everyone? No. Have I ever made any statements/assertion that I claim is true for the whole group? No. So GTFA and think of a better retort than that.

I do feel sorry for DeafDyke that she had the experiences that she had, but I do not feel sorry for highlighting the fact that she is taking her experiences and applying it to the whole of the group.

No, what you claimed when you got here was that you joined specifically to pick on one member, and you are certainly doing so.

If you really felt sorry, you would just let it roll over you like the rest of us. She isn't speaking for all of us.

Only a child would take it seriously and get all outraged.

 

[Beowulf]

Outraged? Who's outraged?
I's merely regusted.

 

[kokonut]

No, what you claimed when you got here was that you joined specifically to pick on one member, and you are certainly doing so.

If you really felt sorry, you would just let it roll over you like the rest of us. She isn't speaking for all of us.

Only a child would take it seriously and get all outraged.

He has also responded in other threads. But to "pick on one member" vs joining so one can offer an input to a questionable comment and engage in with a poster seems more reasonable. I'm sure people have come out of lurk-mode and decided to chime in because of some particular posts or threads. Probably no different what Tomm did as why he decided to join and come out of lurk-mode because he found certain posts questionable rather than stay silent.

 

[Bottesini]

He has also responded in other threads. But to "pick on one member" vs joining so one can offer an input to a questionable comment and engage in with a poster seems more reasonable. I'm sure people have come out of lurk-mode and decided to chime in because of some particular posts or threads. Probably no different what Tomm did as why he decided to join and come out of lurk-mode because he found certain posts questionable rather than stay silent.

Here is the first post he made.

I wish you'd stop spouting shite, really. I've lurked AllDeaf for a long time and have just signed up cos I've had enough of you saying all this crap.

Why the fcuk are you putting us oral lot into this box that somehow our lives is always difficult, always saying "what", cannot understand what hearing people are saying or would be 100% better off with sign language. Then when someone contradicts you and say that they have decent speech and listening skills, you say that they were privileged, it was a "perfect storm" of factors etc and thereby putting them down by implying that they wouldn't have decent speech skills if their parents was less well off or some crap like that.

You can argue semantics all you want, but that's why he signed up.

 

[kokonut]

Here is the first post he made.
You can argue semantics all you want, but that's why he signed up.

I've already reviewed his post on that one before I posted my comment and were aware of it. He came out of lurk-mode to address a questionable post. I wonder how many past lurkers did the same that got them to join AD?

 

[ambrosia]

No, what you claimed when you got here was that you joined specifically to pick on one member, and you are certainly doing so.

If you really felt sorry, you would just let it roll over you like the rest of us. She isn't speaking for all of us.

Only a child would take it seriously and get all outraged.

Meh, I don't think that's semantics, it's jumping to your own conclusions and opinions on what he's doing. I don't see tomm's coming out of lurk mode to tell dd to stfu with all her bs as "picking on her". But whatever

Also I don't think he's sorry for saying anything, he feels sorry FOR her, like she's someone to pity.

But what I find most interesting is......so you don't think DD should be taken seriously?

Personally I don't either, most of her posts are not really on topic. They could be copy and pasted basically, the same crap over and over that doesn't even really have a definite. Like a screechy monkey, it's damn annoying especially since she is down right serious and thinks everyone else should take her seriously.

There's a difference also between outrage and exasperation.

 

[Bottesini]

Meh, I don't think that's semantics, it's jumping to your own conclusions and opinions on what he's doing. I don't see tomm's coming out of lurk mode to tell dd to stfu with all her bs as "picking on her". But whatever

Also I don't think he's sorry for saying anything, he feels sorry FOR her, like she's someone to pity.

But what I find most interesting is......so you don't think DD should be taken seriously?

Personally I don't either, most of her posts are not really on topic. They could be copy and pasted basically, the same crap over and over that doesn't even really have a definite. Like a screechy monkey, it's damn annoying especially since she is down right serious and thinks everyone else should take her seriously.

There's a difference also between outrage and exasperation.

Of course I don't. It's embarrassing .

But ignoring it is the best way to proceed, in my opinion.

I don't take any garbage from her and she has pretty much learned to leave me alone, but it's also pointless to follow her around trying to correct her misapprehensions. She is not going to learn from any of us.

 

[ambrosia]

Of course I don't. It's embarrassing .

But ignoring it is the best way to proceed, in my opinion.

I don't take any garbage from her and she has pretty much learned to leave me alone, but it's also pointless to follow her around trying to correct her misapprehensions. She is not going to learn from any of us.

I think you're absolutely right and I need to take a page out if your book.

 

[VamPyroX]

Take off your hearing aids (or cochlear implants) and that leaves you with what... deaf.

You will always be deaf. That's the one thing a lot of people get wrong. They get hearing aids (or CIs) that allows them to hear very well... and they immediately consider themselves "cured" or capable of being like hearing people. So, they don't sign or find any need to sign.

Well, take off their hearing aids (or CIs) and they can't hear. Now what? Gonna go crazy trying to find a replacement? What if you can't get your replacement right away. What if you can't afford a replacement. What if your insurance company won't cover the replacement? What now? You're... DEAF! Whoa... shocking news, eh?

In reality, that's up to you... but what I said above is something you should think about.

I consider myself deaf. Yes, I can speak orally with my hearing counterparts... but I have also accepted the fact that I am deaf and do use sign language when with others that use sign language. I find it very convenient when I'm doing something without wearing my hearing aid. I can easily communicate with my wife while swimming, working out, while in bed, while cutting the lawn, etc. I'm not wearing my hearing and and I can still sign to her in times of need.

I could even communicate with other people from across the room when I need to be quiet like in church, a meeting, a crowded assembly, etc. It's moments like these that make me glad that I learned sign language.

 

[Mewtilation]

Wirelessly posted

No, what you claimed when you got here was that you joined specifically to pick on one member, and you are certainly doing so.

If you really felt sorry, you would just let it roll over you like the rest of us. She isn't speaking for all of us.

Only a child would take it seriously and get all outraged.

Meh, I don't think that's semantics, it's jumping to your own conclusions and opinions on what he's doing. I don't see tomm's coming out of lurk mode to tell dd to stfu with all her bs as "picking on her". But whatever

Also I don't think he's sorry for saying anything, he feels sorry FOR her, like she's someone to pity.

But what I find most interesting is......so you don't think DD should be taken seriously?

Personally I don't either, most of her posts are not really on topic. They could be copy and pasted basically, the same crap over and over that doesn't even really have a definite. Like a screechy monkey, it's damn annoying especially since she is down right serious and thinks everyone else should take her seriously.

There's a difference also between outrage and exasperation.

I wanted to like it, but the mobile version doesn't seem to allow that.... so far I've not seen the ability anyway... :P