Is it really so bad to know SEE (Sign Exact English?)

GrendelQ

41°17′00″N 70°04′58″W
Premium Member
A backlash for using it with your child? Hmmm...maybe with some posters BUT..

I remember it was for a different reason. Something to do with creating a thread announcing that it is a language? Correct?

Pls do not try to lie or omit important reasons and create pity on yourself. You demeaned many deaf posters so as a result, you got a backlash.

Hmm, interesting that you still don't understand what you read in Csign's 1st ever thread so long ago. She said that SEE was a language: English -- just a mode of that existing language and not a standalone, separate language like ASL. And since that time you insist on misstating that as if Csign had claimed that SEE was a language separate from English -- very much the opposite of what she said.

Now Shel, I also recall one of your first posts here in which you said that you had taught your own child SEE. And yet you comment here as though it's some unfamiliar approach you can't imagine a parent choosing.
 

Reba

Retired Terp
Premium Member
Question about SEE/signed English:

English in the oral/aural mode uses voice inflection (variations of pitch, volume, tone) to express the emotions, degree of formality/intimacy, emphasis, and question/declarative form of the discourse.

How does English in signed mode show the aspects that voice inflection would convey?
 

GrendelQ

41°17′00″N 70°04′58″W
Premium Member
Question about SEE/signed English:

English in the oral/aural mode uses voice inflection (variations of pitch, volume, tone) to express the emotions, degree of formality/intimacy, emphasis, and question/declarative form of the discourse.

How does English in signed mode show the aspects that voice inflection would convey?

That's an interesting question. Same is often asked about the written mode of English. Reba, do you interpret only ASL or do you also interpret SEE and PSE?

I don't use SEE, but I've looked into it, and ffrom what I've read by deaf SEE creator Gerilee Gustason (for example, here: http://doug.stringham.net/uvuasl/3310/ch7_mceorigins.pdf), the same physical means of conveying emotion and inflection used in ASL are used in SEE (negation, directionality, placement, questioning, etc.).

This, too, is an interesting graphical representation of the relationships between languages/systems: http://doug.stringham.net/uvuasl/3310/ch7_langcontinuum.pdf
 

CSign

New Member
That's an interesting question. Same is often asked about the written mode of English. Reba, do you interpret only ASL or do you also interpret SEE and PSE?

I don't use SEE, but I've looked into it, and ffrom what I've read by deaf SEE creator Gerilee Gustason (for example, here: http://doug.stringham.net/uvuasl/3310/ch7_mceorigins.pdf), the same physical means of conveying emotion and inflection used in ASL are used in SEE (negation, directionality, placement, questioning, etc.).

Exactly.
 
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Barbaro

Well-Known Member
Don't like SEE. I first learned SEE when I was 8 years old. It was too distracting, and took eons to complete a sentence. If I sign SEE, my brain would not function properly.
 

Frisky Feline

Well-Known Member
this is my all time favorite sign.

images
:fruit:
 

Reba

Retired Terp
Premium Member
That's an interesting question. Same is often asked about the written mode of English.
It is? Often? By whom? Written English includes adverbs, font styles, punctuation to convey tone.

Reba, do you interpret only ASL or do you also interpret SEE and PSE?
I can interpret ASL and PSE, and transliterate SEE and signed English; whatever the client requests.

I don't use SEE, but I've looked into it, and ffrom what I've read by deaf SEE creator Gerilee Gustason (for example, here: http://doug.stringham.net/uvuasl/3310/ch7_mceorigins.pdf), the same physical means of conveying emotion and inflection used in ASL are used in SEE (negation, directionality, placement, questioning, etc.).
ASL uses those means but SEE does not. I've not seen SEE users puff cheeks, CHA, purse lips, use the eyebrows to differentiate types of questions and indicate topicality, lalala the tongue, use indexing and role shifting, etc.

This, too, is an interesting graphical representation of the relationships between languages/systems: http://doug.stringham.net/uvuasl/3310/ch7_langcontinuum.pdf
Note that ASL is the only sign language, and that the others are signed systems and codes. Note also that neither signed English nor any of the SEE systems are in the "English" end of the continuum. They are not languages.
 

GrendelQ

41°17′00″N 70°04′58″W
Premium Member
It is? Often? By whom? Written English includes adverbs, font styles, punctuation to convey tone.
You've never heard people discuss how often intent, emotion, and tone are not always accurately conveyed in posts vs. face to face discussion? It's one of the reasons why people tend to add emoticons or write out such things as (j/k) or //sarcasm//.

I think that written English can convey emotion very precisely and powerfully -- but isn't always used to its full capacity. Seems like that same issue may be what you are also seeing with SEE if people are not effectively using the same elements ASL uses to convey emotion, directionality, and so on, given that those are explicitly defined as part of SEE.
 

saywhatkid

Huked on fonix werx!
Premium Member
I think that written English can convey emotion very precisely and powerfully -- but isn't always used to its full capacity.

Some people can make beautiful art with only charcoal and paper, while others barely make garbage with a huge drawer full of paints, pens, oils, etc.
 

Reba

Retired Terp
Premium Member
You've never heard people discuss how often intent, emotion, and tone are not always accurately conveyed in posts vs. face to face discussion? It's one of the reasons why people tend to add emoticons or write out such things as (j/k) or //sarcasm//.
Most text messages, many emails, and some forum posts are written in non-standard English, hence the problem with lack of tone expression. If standard written English is used there are fewer problems with misunderstanding.

I think that written English can convey emotion very precisely and powerfully -- but isn't always used to its full capacity. Seems like that same issue may be what you are also seeing with SEE if people are not effectively using the same elements ASL uses to convey emotion, directionality, and so on, given that those are explicitly defined as part of SEE.
SEE doesn't use elements of ASL grammar. SEE uses some ASL signs, and even then it doesn't always use them correctly.

If you want to use SEE that's your prerogative but please don't make it out to be something that it isn't.
 

CSign

New Member
Most text messages, many emails, and some forum posts are written in non-standard English, hence the problem with lack of tone expression. If standard written English is used there are fewer problems with misunderstanding.


SEE doesn't use elements of ASL grammar. SEE uses some ASL signs, and even then it doesn't always use them correctly.

If you want to use SEE that's your prerogative but please don't make it out to be something that it isn't.

That's the thing Reba, is that SEE does use the same visual elements that ASL does. If you'd had truly studied SEE you would have known that. If you had read the study, you would have known that.

If you don't like SEE, that is your prerogative- but don't belittle something that you have clear misconceptions about.
 

Frisky Feline

Well-Known Member
That's the thing Reba, is that SEE does use the same visual elements that ASL does. If you'd had truly studied SEE you would have known that. If you had read the study, you would have known that.

If you don't like SEE, that is your prerogative- but don't belittle something that you have clear misconceptions about.

I see what reba explained that I agree because I used to sign SEE. I believe that she is very familiar with this SEE thingy since she met some people in the past.
 

saywhatkid

Huked on fonix werx!
Premium Member
SEE doesn't use elements of ASL grammar. SEE uses some ASL signs, and even then it doesn't always use them correctly.

If you want to use SEE that's your prerogative but please don't make it out to be something that it isn't.

If you don't like SEE, that is your prerogative- but don't belittle something that you have clear misconceptions about.

Oh boy, the hearing Mom versus the ASL interpreter. Wonder who knows the subject better?

You want another comparison? Which is more musical:
  • Nursery song
  • Beethoven's 5th

Both use the same kind of notes, staff, rests, etc. Your call.
 

saywhatkid

Huked on fonix werx!
Premium Member
Yes.. guess it's with ASL like with other languages..

You would guess wrong. See it any way you wish. Language is language. SEE is an attempt to sign something using English structure.

I actually have no issue with people knowing SEE, or using SEE. My issue is with people saying it is another sign language.
 

CSign

New Member
You would guess wrong. See it any way you wish. Language is language. SEE is an attempt to sign something using English structure.

I actually have no issue with people knowing SEE, or using SEE. My issue is with people saying it is another sign language.

Yet nobody in this thread said it was a "language" in and of itself... So... :dunno:
 
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