How do you sign...

EDIT: And also "Sometimes we wear our special Korean outfits." I can think of a couple ways to sign it, but none feels right. :P
Can anybody still help me with this one? I got the others figured out (I was able to ask him, since the deadline is apparently midnight tonight (that's two hours)), but I didn't have time to ask him this one, too, and my other questions about the story were more pressing.

I'm sure I'll figure out some way to sign it if I don't get a response, but I figured I'd try one more time.
 

MDCodeRedFreak

Active Member
To convey someone is heartbroken, you can use various combinations of signs and facial expressions to show extreme sorrow, agony, grief or despair. One that I use is the twisting motion of GRIEF in front of the heart. Example:

TOUCH-HEART (with a stabbing motion) GRIEF
I've seen that sign, yes - the TOUCH-HEART is used with the bent middle finger while all the other fingers were spread wide open. The physical heart and the sign BREAK is never seen by myself.
 

tuatara

pro-water
Premium Member
The signs for saying that you should do something, or have to do something, or need to do something, these are all the same, right? Maybe different facial expressions?

I've been in a few situations where I really wanted to say "You shouldn't have to..." Like maybe the person is being forced to work overtime without being paid for it, so they do have to, but it seems wrong, and I want to say that I think they shouldn't have to. Like expressing emotional support in the way of saying I don't agree with the people forcing them etc.

When I imagine how to sign this expression "You shouldn't have to" it always seems awkward. (Plenty of the signing I do with Deaf people, I'm very certain, is terribly awkward, and is only understood because they can figure it out, not because it's proper ASL. But this seems further out there, like I probably won't get the idea across.)

Anyway, I know I can combine the "not" with the "should" sign, but still it feels like I'm kind of using the same sign twice in a row, and it seems like I'm going down the wrong road. Can anyone steer me right?

Thanks!
 

kellycat

New Member
I have been on a quest to find some semblance of the conditional mood in ASL...it just doesn't exist.

So "would" and "should" and "could"...nope.

Like I tell my students, if the two languages lined up perfectly, they'd be the same language. People in one part of the world came up with a way to express something they felt the need to convey. People in another part of the world came up with a way to express a similar need. And they didn't consult each other. In English we intoduce ourselves saying "My name is _____." In Spanish, word-for-word it comes out "I call myself______". In ASL it can be "Me name ________". All express the same IDEA but use different ways of phrasing.

So there is no exact sign for "would" or "should"...but you can express the idea of "You should go" by signing "you need go" (along with right facial expressions to indicate if you're saying someone really should go and not miss something or if you're kicking them out and they gotta go now.

The more languages you see/hear/learn, the more it gets easier to let go of the way things are phrased in your native language and just accept how the other language does things. But I still want a way to sign the conditional mood.
 

tuatara

pro-water
Premium Member
Kellycat- Thanks so much for addressing my question. So I guess I just have to come at the conversation from a completely different angle. Like in my example above, I'd just say something like "wow, I think it's wrong that they make you do that, I don't agree with them, you deserve better" or something along those lines. (I realize this is still in English, but at least it's English I have a better chance of getting into ASL.)
 

MissLady

New Member
I have been on a quest to find some semblance of the conditional mood in ASL...it just doesn't exist.

So "would" and "should" and "could"...nope.

So there is no exact sign for "would" or "should"...but you can express the idea of "You should go" by signing "you need go" (along with right facial expressions to indicate if you're saying someone really should go and not miss something or if you're kicking them out and they gotta go now.

The more languages you see/hear/learn, the more it gets easier to let go of the way things are phrased in your native language and just accept how the other language does things. But I still want a way to sign the conditional mood.
Umm... I beg to differ with you. You can say would/should/could. Would is usually glossed as the sign WILL. There's an English sign that's a W-->D for would (essentially an intialized Will sign). Not used very often in these parts, but I do see it. Should is the same sign as Need, just with more emphasis. Really all depends on the NMS's and Facial Expression. Need around here is an "x" that is tapped whereas Must/should/have-to is an "x" that only taps one time, kinda dramatically. Could is the sign "can" done twice, at least around here.

Conditionals are definitely possible in ASL. Remember that the words above are modals, not conditional. There is actually a conditional sentence type in ASL. They typically start with IF (whatever is anticipated that could happen) HAPPEN....(whatever the desired outcome is). Example: IF you clean your room, THEN (happen in ASL) you can go to the party tomorrow.

With all due respect, I'm not sure where you are in your ASL journey, but I strongly suggest going to some kind of formal ASL classes, if only for the linguistic components. These types of linguistic questions, which are fairly challenging, are taught there. When taught by Deaf teachers, these kinds of linguistic conundrums can be completely clear.

And I completely agree with you, sometimes you just need to go for the concept. I think too many people learning ASL these days think that English word= ASL sign for every single word in the world. Just not true.
 

tuatara

pro-water
Premium Member
With all due respect, I'm not sure where you are in your ASL journey, but I strongly suggest going to some kind of formal ASL classes, if only for the linguistic components. These types of linguistic questions, which are fairly challenging, are taught there. When taught by Deaf teachers, these kinds of linguistic conundrums can be completely clear.
I think that part was directed toward me? Sorry if I thought wrong, but I'll respond. I am taking classes at the Deaf school here at night. ASL 2 is just finishing now, and I'll start ASL 3 in the fall. (all deaf teachers) In the meantime, I'm trying to get as much practice as I can with people at the local Deaf club, so these questions come up for me. I really appreciate your posting about this - everything (including disagreements!) are helpful. Thanks!
 

kellycat

New Member
I think it was meant for me. I must not have typed my response clearly, because the points you wrote isn't contradictory to what I meant...what I was saying was that the English word "would" doesn't have a direct translation to ASL as its own sign. You can't sign word-for-word "I would go to the party..." or " That was what I meant. Because the conditional mood in English is formed by using the word "would" (I would go, he would want, we would sleep) I had to dig deep to find some irregular verbs in English that use it, could and should are the best I could come up with, although as you mentioned, these are more sign-able through NMM, etc.

The conditional mood, as I'm using the term, is different from the conditional sentences you listed. I teach Spanish so I tend to reach for those terms when labeling or explaining grammar concepts. I was talking more about general linguistic/grammar things that apply to many language. I had forgotten about the conditional sentences that you mention (If ____, then ____.) Totally different type of "conditional" for my grammar brain. (Conditional sentence vs. Conditional Mood)

I hope this makes sense, I'm at work and people keep coming in and talking to me which disrupts my no-doubt absolutely brilliant train of thought. :roll:(hee hee)

Thank you for your advice, I have taken formal ASL classes in addition to having a pretty large number of signers (Deaf and hearing) in my social circle, and have tried to study the more picky grammar concepts. That's the kind of nerd I am. I pester the (Deaf) ASL teachers I work with for grammar tips and explanations all the time. Maybe I can find an advanced course somewhere around here. I'm in a big enough city it's easy to find beginner classes, but the highest level I've seen around here is 3, and the nearest ITP is like 1.5-2 hours away, although they do offer advanced classes in ASL linguistics. :hmm:
 

Jiro

If You Know What I Mean
Premium Member
What is the sign for "crypt" (like an underground graveyard typically in a mansion)?
for me - I'd sign the word grave (which is same as cemetery/graveyard/etc) - Sign for GRAVE | ASL Sign Language Video Dictionary

and since you're specifically talking about a crypt... an underground graveyard inside mansion... describe it just like that. there are several ways to do it.

big house. in. basement. *point* cemetery.
 

MDCodeRedFreak

Active Member
for me - I'd sign the word grave (which is same as cemetery/graveyard/etc) - Sign for GRAVE | ASL Sign Language Video Dictionary

and since you're specifically talking about a crypt... an underground graveyard inside mansion... describe it just like that. there are several ways to do it.

big house. in. basement. *point* cemetery.
Hmm since there are no specific sign for that - and ASL signs represent concepts ....

You mean like the left C with the right bent, face-down U "inserting" into the left C? Although that's more like a morgue though (ick, I know ... I've seen it).

How about this conceptual sign for that crypt - the left forearm (representing the ground) with the right face-down U "inserting" under the forearm (basement)? Aggh I dunno. I know I can't just make up signs like that out of the whim, but still ... I know there are some conceptual signs out there that's not specific to every word, you know?

Oh - and "mausoleum" (above-ground grave) - like the right U on top of the left hand?
 

Jiro

If You Know What I Mean
Premium Member
Hmm since there are no specific sign for that - and ASL signs represent concepts ....

You mean like the left C with the right bent, face-down U "inserting" into the left C? Although that's more like a morgue though (ick, I know ... I've seen it).

How about this conceptual sign for that crypt - the left forearm (representing the ground) with the right face-down U "inserting" under the forearm (basement)? Aggh I dunno. I know I can't just make up signs like that out of the whim, but still ... I know there are some conceptual signs out there that's not specific to every word, you know?

Oh - and "mausoleum" (above-ground grave) - like the right U on top of the left hand?
keep it simple. don't think too hard. you can either just fingerspell it as "crypt" or... simply sign it like what I described above. all you gotta do is "draw a picture" and describe it.

a sign for words like grave, crypt, graveyard, etc. is pretty much same thing. you just gotta add more description to it like big house (mansion) and underground and we can easily figure out what you're trying to say. if some people are clueless, well they're clueless anyway... just like some hearing people may not have heard of the word "crypt" or never knew there's such thing like a crypt in basement :lol:
 

MDCodeRedFreak

Active Member
keep it simple. don't think too hard. you can either just fingerspell it as "crypt" or... simply sign it like what I described above. all you gotta do is "draw a picture" and describe it.

a sign for words like grave, crypt, graveyard, etc. is pretty much same thing. you just gotta add more description to it like big house (mansion) and underground and we pretty much would understand what you're trying to say. if some people are clueless, well they're clueless anyway... just like some hearing people may not have heard of the word "crypt" or never knew there's such thing like a crypt in basement :lol:
Lol yeah, good point. Thanks!

The reason I asked is b/c I was telling a friend about the old HBO show "Tales From The Crypt" (1989 to 1996) and I bought the complete set of DVDs last year - it's still my fave show along with NBC's Friends and a few others.
 

Reba

Retired Terp
Premium Member
Lol yeah, good point. Thanks!

The reason I asked is b/c I was telling a friend about the old HBO show "Tales From The Crypt" (1989 to 1996) and I bought the complete set of DVDs last year - it's still my fave show along with NBC's Friends and a few others.
In that case, you should spell it out because it's part of a title. If someone asks what does "crypt" mean, then you can explain that with signs and classifiers.
 
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