Hearing people's view of CI

[Bottesini]

No, that is not what I am saying at all. It is amazing how you only want to assume the worst.

She made RIT which if you know anything about the university has higher academic standards than NTID. Not only did she make RIT but the major she was in was not open to all RIT students as you had to separately apply and be accepted into the program as they had only a limited number of students they could accept each year.

She was not in a special program for CI users she was in a major with hearing and a few other deaf RIT students.

I have no idea what you are talking about when you ask: "Why do you think it is superior to create another deaf subset?" Would you care to explain that further?

No. It was a very clear statement, and I refuse to play games. Good day.

 

[Cloggy]

Cloggy is extrapolating questions and answers, but good question. One can discuss what kind of pressure he puts on his daughter by makin claims like this on Internet. Am i allowed, with deep concerns, to use "possible case of abuse", without getting banned, naisho?

You can check his blog, his daughter is basically hoh. She had speech therapy and use/used FM equipment.

"Possible case of abuse"...
Even hidden in a hint that's some accusation... !!!
I've been banned for less...

And yes... please check the blog...

 

[Cloggy]

But not understands every single word, right? I mean, you've said so.

That's what I fail to understand, why sign isn't given as another option to fill in the blanks, at least.

Even I don't understand every word that's being said. Not many people do..
Part of listening is being able to fill in the gaps. For some they are bigger than for others. For Lotte they are bigger.
The little words people - and Lotte - misses are not words like "refrigerator" or "deaf society" but the little ones..
Not words that can be substituted with sign on the fly....
So.. you know what we do.. like with any other person that doesn't unnderstand what we are saying... We repeat the question.. or word... or sentence...

Magic..

So.. Why would we use sign?

 

[rick48]

No. It was a very clear statement, and I refuse to play games. Good day.

Clear as mud and if you refuse to play games then why did you start this one? If you want to have a discussion, which is what I thought you were doing then sometimes you have to explain your statements or ask a question in a different way.

 

[Cloggy]

I am not discussing the merits of knowing sign but if she is having a spoken conversation in Dutch with a person who only speaks Dutch and they say a word she hears but does not understand, how will knowing sign "fill in the blank"? That person cannot explain it to her in sign as they do not know sign. She cannot ask the person in sign to explain the meaning of the word for again, that person does not know sign. So again, how will knowing sign "fill in the blanks" of this conversation?

excellent post... Thanks Rick..

 

[blondon704]

Even I don't understand every word that's being said. Not many people do..
Part of listening is being able to fill in the gaps. For some they are bigger than for others. For Lotte they are bigger.
The little words people - and Lotte - misses are not words like "refrigerator" or "deaf society" but the little ones..
Not words that can be substituted with sign on the fly....
So.. you know what we do.. like with any other person that doesn't unnderstand what we are saying... We repeat the question.. or word... or sentence...

Magic..

So.. Why would we use sign?

Because sign would be able to link her to the conversation in a more natural way without overloading her with more work of language. Well obviously not in her case (beautiful name by the way) since you never used sign with her but had you started with the basic simple things like people usually do she would be able to fill in gaps without repeating. She has to work to hear even with her ci's. My son has to work to hear with his ha's so I take them out and we get by with what we can with sign. By filling in the gaps.

 

[rick48]

"Possible case of abuse"...
Even hidden in a hint that's some accusation... !!!
I've been banned for less...

And yes... please check the blog...

Agree. Quite despicable to even hint at, or suggest that a parent is abusing their child but not out of character for the poster. The hatred of cochlear implants is so transparent!

Rick

 

[rick48]

Because sign would be able to link her to the conversation in a more natural way without overloading her with more work of language. Well obviously not in her case (beautiful name by the way) since you never used sign with her but had you started with the basic simple things like people usually do she would be able to fill in gaps without repeating. She has to work to hear even with her ci's. My son has to work to hear with his ha's so I take them out and we get by with what we can with sign. By filling in the gaps.

I would agree if she is having a conversation with a person who also knows sign but how will it fill in gaps, i.e. words she does not understand in a spoken conversation with someone who does not sign?

 

[dogmom]

rick, I have two questions, would you have written about your daughter the way you have and be so proud of her - if she enrolled in Gally or NTID and /or used ASL exclusively and did not speak?

why do you refuse to see how audist your views are?

You chose to do what you did because you were concerned about what some people who happened to be Deaf, called you or others around you names like you mention in the post specifying "child abusers" and "Nazi's" . You wanted to make things easier for you. These "benefits" you mention are based on the perception of what you want.

 

[Cloggy]

No problem. But on a serious note, what you are telling us about her college experience was that even with the early CI implant, she could not do it all on her own without help, and was in a special program for CI users.

Why do you think it is superior to create another deaf subset?

People being successful with technology educating themselves is considered "create another deaf subset" ...
Is this some kind fear of some people that they are regarded inferior when they are deaf?
I have heard/seen it in other forms... I recall a scene from "Sound and Fury" where a Deaf person tells another Deaf person he/she wants to try CI to hear.. and the reply is "you think we are not good enough because we cannot hear".. "you think you will be better than us when you hear"....
Or the grandmother that - after her grandson was operated and had CI - cried out that "now he will think we are stupid"...

It's strange that instead of embracing these young people, they are regarded as "another deaf subset"..

 

[Cloggy]

Because sign would be able to link her to the conversation in a more natural way without overloading her with more work of language. Well obviously not in her case (beautiful name by the way) since you never used sign with her but had you started with the basic simple things like people usually do she would be able to fill in gaps without repeating. She has to work to hear even with her ci's. My son has to work to hear with his ha's so I take them out and we get by with what we can with sign. By filling in the gaps.

Sign would be so un-natural... (btw.. we used sign.. don't assume too much)

If your son has to work hard with his HA's... signlanguage is a solution... CI is another solution.. but I guess that's not an option..

Here's a question..
In the following video... how do we fill in the gaps with sign?
Or go straight to the video: "Baby Baby"


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4g0O4wc9pw&feature=player_embedded]Lotte zingt "Babe Babe" - YouTube[/ame]
Or this one.. 3½ years ago.
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6VTL8YeNQLA&feature=player_embedded]Lotte aan de telefoon. - YouTube[/ame]

 

[dogmom]

Botti I know what you mean.

Audism is running rampant in this thread. That's what I see people hating.

 

[rivenoak]

That handful of us who are hearing and deaf parents of deaf kids can and do learn a lot from this community, and can also provide a great deal of info. about what our children are experiencing both to this community and to the next generation of new parents who come here. But the deaf community here and beyond is not homogeneous, so some of us may be listening to those who are deaf/hoh, as you suggest: listening to the majority of those who say go mainstream (whether with ASL or oral support) or deaf school (oral) vs. a minority who advise that deaf kids need to learn in an ASL environment.

IME, the AD community has a much more Deaf/ASL/deaf school way of looking at things than the d/hh I have met IRL so far. This has surprised me IRL.

Maybe I haven't been exposed to enough Deaf d/hh IRL?

But, I try to take in the information from everyone on all sides. It all informs how I consider raising my DS.

For a comment on the topic of the thread's title, I have to say that most hearing people I've talked to on the subject of CI are uninformed. They don't know if/when a CI is appropriate and seem interested to know that it isn't a cure-all or always appropriate. They might have heard of CI, but that's about it.

 

[Cloggy]

Botti I know what you mean.

Audism is running rampant in this thread. That's what I see people hating.

Yeh... if we don't agree, or cannot think of anything else to say, or the arguments are too strong... ... using any form of the word "AUDISM" is a good way to come back...

Good luck with that..

 

[CSign]

Cloggy- Lotte is beautiful! It's very apparent to me that she is a happy, healthy, typical child. I find it to be wonderful that she is fluent in two languages, and emerging with a third. It's clear that she is doing well, and benefitting from her use of the CI's.

 

[rick48]

rick, I have two questions, would you have written about your daughter the way you have and be so proud of her - if she enrolled in Gally or NTID and /or used ASL exclusively and did not speak?

why do you refuse to see how audist your views are?

You chose to do what you did because you were concerned about what some people who happened to be Deaf, called you or others around you names like you mention in the post specifying "child abusers" and "Nazi's" . You wanted to make things easier for you. These "benefits" you mention are based on the perception of what you want.

I have written about my daughter long before she chose her college so her college choice has nothing to do with my pride of her as a person. If you think that how I feel about her are tied to college and language choices then I am afraid that you are wrong as you really do not know me or the relationship I have with my children.

I have long stopped trying to justify my decisions to people like you. If you have determined them to be audist, however you choose to define the term, I really do not care. What you think of me is of no concern. I do not seek your approval nor give a rat's ass about it.

We chose what we did because we determined it to be in our child's best interests. We chose to expose her to a wonderful community of deaf people who provided us with support and inspiration and viewed our child for who she is not for what device she wore on her head.

Wanted to make things easier for us, honey, deciding in 1989 to implant your child was far from easy, shielding her from people who hate like yourself was easy, but not deciding to implant and then following through with it. My wife put her career on hold and we made great economic sacrifices to do what we thought was best for our child so until you have walked a mile in our shoes, please don't be so presumptuous as to think you can judge us or understand our decisions.

 

[Cloggy]

Cloggy- Lotte is beautiful! It's very apparent to me that she is a happy, healthy, typical child. I find it to be wonderful that she is fluent in two languages, and emerging with a third. It's clear that she is doing well, and benefitting from her use of the CI's.

AH.. but you're missing the point.. We FORCED it upon her and we are REFUSING to give her SIGNLANGUAGE.. Not even talking about the abuse..

 

[sallylou]

Rivenoak, I have a lot of experience in real life with the Deaf/HOH community. I don't need to be educated. I have 4 degrees, including a doctorate and post-doctorate degree. Notice how well I write? Editor on the Law Review. Cut the patronizing act.

 

[CSign]

AH.. but you're missing the point.. We FORCED it upon her and we are REFUSING to give her SIGNLANGUAGE.. Not even talking about the abuse..

LOL. Can't help but laugh

 

[Cloggy]

rick, I have two questions, would you have written about your daughter the way you have and be so proud of her - if she enrolled in Gally or NTID and /or used ASL exclusively and did not speak?

why do you refuse to see how audist your views are?

You chose to do what you did because you were concerned about what some people who happened to be Deaf, called you or others around you names like you mention in the post specifying "child abusers" and "Nazi's" . You wanted to make things easier for you. These "benefits" you mention are based on the perception of what you want.

Here's a definition:
"What is audism? A simple definition would be that it is a negative or oppressive attitude towards deaf people by either deaf or hearing people and organizations, and a failure to accomodate them. People who have audist attutides are considered to be audists. For example, the refusal or failure to use sign language in the presence of a sign language-dependent person is considered audism."

DogMom...
.....................with Ricks daughter being deaf...

why do you refuse to see how audist your views are