Hearing parents and siblings, HOH 9-month-old.

rebeccalj said:
I agree with deafdyke. Don't listen to people who want to push you into an oral only environment for your little man. It's *SO* so important to provide him access to the visual language that is natural for him.
Click to expand...

+ 1

Lauren, rebeccalj and I are both deafies who grew up oral-only and who wished that we had sign language from the beginning. Oral-only is achievable but it is very tiring and does not come naturally for us, it takes conscious effort to annunicate syllables etc, even after 40 years or more, it does not get easier. What comes naturally is visual language, and cues such as facial expressions and body language. Sign language will make your son's path to language and communication so much easier. Let it be his first language. English will follow more smoothly from there.
 
BecLak said:
+ 1

Lauren, rebeccalj and I are both deafies who grew up oral-only and who wished that we had sign language from the beginning. Oral-only is achievable but it is very tiring and does not come naturally for us, it takes conscious effort to annunicate syllables etc, even after 40 years or more, it does not get easier. What comes naturally is visual language, and cues such as facial expressions and body language. Sign language will make your son's path to language and communication so much easier. Let it be his first language. English will follow more smoothly from there.
Click to expand...

Grew up oral-only here too and I feel the same as BecLak and rebaccalj.
 
Oral only is based on the assumption that a) ASL is a "crutch" (the way a wheelchair/walker/ Braille whatever) and B) that dhh kids need to expend all their energy on speech, speech and more speech.
Some kids are introduced to both, and decide they don't want to use ASL, but unfortunatly that is kind of rare.
 
Thank you so much for all of your input! It is definitely interesting to see the differences in what HOH/deaf individuals recommend versus what the audiologists and my parental adviser have recommended all this time.

My main concern is that I don't KNOW for a fact what his hearing loss is at this point, since all the tests have not matched. In fact, since I have TWO people who I know who have been told their kids had hearing loss and needed hearing aids and now are older and DO NOT have hearing loss or need them just shows me that these doctors do NOT know everything and tests CAN be wrong. For now, I am keeping them on him until we get a test that matches, because I don't want to take chances with him. At the same time, how can I NOT want to sign with him, even if it is just a little bit? Since I feel I can't trust the tests as of yet, what if his hearing is worse and he isn't hearing what they think he can? How can I not try to teach him some basic signs since the tests haven't matched yet?

My oldest son knew basic baby signs. He started signing at 8 months. I have been trying for the past 2 months to teach Grayson some basic signs, but he has not reciprocated yet. I am pretty sure he knows what the sign for milk means (well, boobie), and I think he probably knows what the sign for more means, but I can't be sure since he has not done them himself. He doesn't seem very interested in signing yet. I am trying to be as consistent as I can, but I find signing a little hard since you need your hands free to do it...that is hard having 3 boys :) But, I'm trying!

Grayson's first audiologist was born with a severe hearing loss and wears hearing aids, and she discouraged me from signing as well, saying he wouldn't need it and that he would be able to hear very well and would probably speak very normally with the help of his HAs. I have been told that his hearing aids are programmed to his specific loss and that only sounds he has trouble hearing are amplified, but I still feel very lost in all this. I have been given a mountain of reading material that I am working on reading...it has been since October that I've been trying to get it all read, but there is just so much!

I have not joined GA Hands and Voices yet, but I was planning on doing that soon. I have so much going on and so much to process, and right now I'm just trying to get a correct test or one that is at least very close to one of the two we have already done.

I have so many different opinions from so many people, it is hard for me to choose which path is right. My mother-in-law was a deaf interpreter for years with Georgia PINES, but she has been very anti-hearing aids and says I shouldn't use them, that he doesn't need them, and that the sound he is hearing with them is probably not good quality.

I've also had mixed opinions about speech therapy. Some say he won't need it, that his loss is the "best" kind of hearing loss and that he should have no trouble developing speech, and others say he still needs it to put meaning to sound and learn to listen. I guess I am going to contact Atlanta Speech School soon and start the application process for the baby program...? It is almost an hour away, but I guess once or twice a week, which is what I have heard is standard for babies there, isn't so bad.
 
deafdyke said:
Hey Lauren! Welcome! I had an extensive post typed out and then my browser froze!
Does he have atresia/stenosis? I also have a reverse slope hearing loss. It's a weird loss....Like I can't hear thunder unless it's directly overhead. But I can hear females pretty well, even without speechreading!
WOOHOO!!!! Don't listen to the people who are discouraging you from signing. Hoh kids have as much right to ASL as their deafer peers. Here's the way I view it. Most of the time, hoh kids can easily aquire spoken language abilty. So it's thought that we don't "need" :roll: ASL and Deaf culture and Deaf Ed.
Yet, we get a LOT of hoh as kids posters saying they wish they'd been able to learn ASL and been a part of Deaf Ed.
Besides, isn't it always good to be bilingal? Also, there's the fact that visual processing is a STRENGH for dhh kids. Plus, he'll be able to function fully both WITH and without his hearing aids! It's kind of rare for hoh kids to get a full toolbox. Most of the time, we just get oral speech and Hearing Health 101 stuff. :roll: ASL and Deaf stuff is a LOT more fun!
If you want to pursue ASL as a second language option, you can. Both Deaf Schools in Georgia (Atlanta Area School for the Deaf and Georgia accept kids with moderate loss.
So I would assume that Deaf Ed in Georgia is VERY hoh friendly.
Click to expand...

I have not been told that he has atresia or stenosis, and there are no visible deformities to his ear, but normally you can look at someone's ear and see the canal easily, but you sort of have to pull his ear out for it to be circular. Otherwise, it's crescent shaped.

That is also interesting that you say you can hear females very well. I read an article on a hearing loss site written by audiologists and a hearing aid manufacturer that said oftentimes people with reverse slope loss, mild or moderate, do not get much benefit from hearing aids or don't need them or don't miss many speech sounds, and I believe women's voices were supposed to be heard very well, which definitely makes sense due to the high frequency. I am hoping that he has no trouble hearing his mommy :)
 
I have a severe profound hearing loss since birth and wore hearing aids all of my life. They did help me a lot. Not 100%, but did help me with lipreading in one-on-one situations or small group settings. Large group settings, lectures, or announcements...forget it! lol


I wish I had both...ASL and oral instead of oral-only.
 
Grayson's first audiologist was born with a severe hearing loss and wears hearing aids, and she discouraged me from signing as well, saying he wouldn't need it and that he would be able to hear very well and would probably speak very normally with the help of his HAs.
Click to expand...
:roll: Oh lord one of THOSE experts. There are some oral deaf people in the audi and auditory verbal business who insist that dhh kids don't "need" sign b/c it's a "crutch" :roll: Ask her how he's supposed to function without his hearing aids? They are expensive and a big part of the reason why there's huge unemployment among dhh people is b/c hearing aids generally aren't covered by insurance.
Plus I think that a lot of the pro oral people tend not to understand the social and emotional downsides of oral only. Ten bucks says that the audi is one of those " speaking and hearing is SO freeing" and then in their next breath, they whine that they don't fit into the hearing world and have very few friends, and they whine that there's no accomondations like 'terps easily available for oral only folks. Heck....an audi shouldn't even be advising on communication options. You should report her!
WO people who I know who have been told their kids had hearing loss and needed hearing aids and now are older and DO NOT have hearing loss or need them just shows me that these doctors do NOT know everything and tests CAN be wrong. For now, I am keeping them on him until we get a test that matches, because I don't want to take chances with him. At the same time, how can I NOT want to sign with him, even if it is just a little bit? Since I feel I can't trust the tests as of yet, what if his hearing is worse and he isn't hearing what they think he can? How can I not try to teach him some basic signs since the tests haven't matched yet?
Click to expand...
ABR can be tricky. You're doing the right thing.
I've also had mixed opinions about speech therapy. Some say he won't need it, that his loss is the "best" kind of hearing loss and that he should have no trouble developing speech, and others say he still needs it to put meaning to sound and learn to listen. I guess I am going to contact Atlanta Speech School soon and start the application process for the baby program...? It is almost an hour away, but I guess once or twice a week, which is what I have heard is standard for babies there, isn't so bad.
Click to expand...
He may not need Speech/ oral School speech therapy, but I think a good idea would be to take him there for an evalution and see how he's doing. Many audilogically hoh kids don't need intense speech therapy. But it would be really good to get him evaluated and see where he's at.
 
Oh and just to add, just so you don't think we're all audilogically deaf, advocating for someone who's hoh, I am audilogically hoh (Born with moderately severe loss in both ears. Now sloping to profound in one ear/frequency, and mild-moderate my other ear)
I too also wish I'd had ASL and access to Deaf Ed as a kid. One of the HUGE problems with oral only and mainstreaming is that it can be very difficult to get accomondations. And teachers/experts think " Oh they don't sign..they don't need a lot of accomodnations or special stuff" :roll: If you took advantage of the Deaf ed system, then they wouldn't be able to get away with that. Trust me, dealing with Resource Room and public school sped is a nightmare. They usually aren't very good at educating low incidence disabilty students.
Not 100%, but did help me with lipreading in one-on-one situations or small group settings. Large group settings, lectures, or announcements...forget it! lol
Click to expand...
That is also a GREAT point you bring up shel!!!! Virtually ALL hoh people are OK one on one or maybe in small group situtions, but beyond that, they tend to be totally lost. Which is why things like ASL and cued speech and speechreading are also helpful.That is why you gotta give dhh kids a full toolbox, so they can easily code switch in different situtions.
Saying that oral only is enough for all situtions, is like saying that b/c you're a good driver in optimal situtions, you're a good driver in ALL situtions.
 
Grayson had more hearing testing done today. He had an OAE, and he PASSED in both ears! The significance of that OAE is that he has NEVER passed on his left ear...he has passed here and there on his right ear, but he has always failed on the left, so the fact that he passed on the left and right today is great! Then we went into the sound booth. He has been in the booth 2 other times and didn't do that well. He would respond to the audiologist speaking to him at 15 dB, which is normal, but he wouldn't really turn and look toward a static noise that they would play...only if it were pretty loud. I wasn't sure at the time if it was because he couldn't hear it or because he was bored and upset. Well, TODAY I couldn't believe it...he was looking every time! The only time he didn't turn and look toward the sound was after the aud had come in and given him a teddy bear...then she played the static noise at a very soft level...it was hard for me to even hear, so I am not surprised he didn't turn to that. He responded at levels of 10, 15, and 20 dB...he did have one time where they played a static sound and he responded when it was 30 dB, which would be in the range of a mild hearing loss, but she told me that she played it again later in the test and that he responded at 20, which is normal. She only tested 2 frequencies today, and I should have asked, but I am thinking that since we have had so much testing that she obviously tested his alleged worst hearing frequencies...that would make the most sense...I mean, why would she test his hearing first at the "best" frequencies based on other tests? Sooo...I'm going to assume she tested his "worst" frequencies for hearing, and anything 20 and up is normal hearing, so since he only had down to 30 and just that one time and he responded at 20 later in the test, I am going to assume he heard it at 20. Anyway, I'm so excited...I've been on an adrenaline rush ever since the appt...we are going for more booth testing in 2 weeks to see if he has the same kind of results. The audiologist today is my 3rd aud and she was very knowledgeable, and she seemed to agree with me that perhaps it really is his ear canals and that they are just getting bigger and letting more sound through, thus explaining his prior bad tests. We are still going to do an ABR under anesthesia, but I really don't even know what the point of that is...because they say they hold booth behavioral testing to a higher level of accuracy, so if he is responding normally and keeps getting those types of results, he may have "outgrown" it if there was an issue of conduction. All along the auds have been saying it is permanent and that with the ABRs his nerve is not responding to all sounds. WELL, that would make sense because how can the nerve respond if the sound is not hitting the drum properly because his ear canals are funny? And this aud agreed with me, but there are also other things that can explain his good testing today, like a fluctuating loss....and she also said there COULD be undetectable fluid in his ears, because the tests they use for that are not great for babies and usually just detect a large amount of fluid, but she said he could have a small amount and that he could have had it all this time. She also said sometimes the chemical composition of fluid in the cochlea is not right and that it can damage cells and then the fluid changes and the hearing is better because it's no longer being damaged. I don't know. Just excited. My baby boy MAY not need his hearing aids if he keeps testing like this. He could be another story just like the nurse at my PCPs office whose son was said to have a hearing loss, and now he is 5 and doesn't.
 
3littlemen said:
Grayson's first audiologist was born with a severe hearing loss and wears hearing aids, and she discouraged me from signing as well, saying he wouldn't need it and that he would be able to hear very well and would probably speak very normally with the help of his HAs. I have been told that his hearing aids are programmed to his specific loss and that only sounds he has trouble hearing are amplified, but I still feel very lost in all this. I have been given a mountain of reading material that I am working on reading...it has been since October that I've been trying to get it all read, but there is just so much!
Click to expand...

Probably grew up in hearing world and don't spend much with Deaf kids. There are plenty like this, esp now most of them are being mainstreamed.
 
Lauren I'de still continue with the sedated ABR....not sure why they would have said those were the less proficient but I have always counted the results of the sedated ABR as the correct ones with my daughters. Are you being seen at a Pediatric/Childrens Hospital? Has he had a CT Scan? You keep getting different results ........ kinda confusing to me it has to be that much more so to you!
 
3littlemen said:
... We are still going to do an ABR under anesthesia, but I really don't even know what the point of that is...because they say they hold booth behavioral testing to a higher level of accuracy...
Click to expand...

The tests measure different aspects of the auditory system, in the case of the OAE and ABR, one indicates how the inner ear is responding, the other evaluates the auditory brainstem response. They are complementary, and neither is definitive alone. The sleeping ABR is less susceptible to external variables (your child's mood, attention-span, external cues and hints that he might be picking up) that you see affecting some of the behavioral tests.
 
BecLak said:
+ 1

Lauren, rebeccalj and I are both deafies who grew up oral-only and who wished that we had sign language from the beginning. Oral-only is achievable but it is very tiring and does not come naturally for us, it takes conscious effort to annunicate syllables etc, even after 40 years or more, it does not get easier. What comes naturally is visual language, and cues such as facial expressions and body language. Sign language will make your son's path to language and communication so much easier. Let it be his first language. English will follow more smoothly from there.
Click to expand...

+1 - oral only here as well.
 
I know that OAEs and ABRs are completely different, but all 3 audiologists I have had said that booth testing is more reliable than an ABR, that an ABR is not a "hearing test" but a nerve test, and that they take a child's behavioral response in the sound booth over an ABR test. Maybe that is wrong, I don't know...but that is what all 3 of my audis have said, and since he passed the OAE today on both ears when he has never been able to pass in the left and then responded to all the tones at normal hearing level in the sound booth other than one, which was replayed later and he then responded at 20, I can't help but be a little confused.

We are most likely still going to do the 3rd ABR, but I have been in agony for months and months with all these conflicting results. The logical explanation for the 2nd ABR being worse is that his hearing loss progressed. Well, that doesn't make sense after today...how can it progress and he respond to the static sounding tones at 15 dB...and even 10 dB??

I am just confused! I don't want a CT scan on him because he had one last June after his carseat malfunctioned and he fell onto pavement in a parking lot. Unfortunately, we didn't know he had a hearing loss or we would have had them image that then. I just don't want him to have all that radiation again in the same year, so we are going to do an MRI instead after the ABR.

It will be interesting to me to see how he does in 2 weeks with the booth testing and then to see the ABR results.
 
Why test so much and be in so much agony?

You can sign and speak at the same time if you want.

studies has shown that even hearing babies benefit from signing language and progress faster.

So results either way:
If your baby is hard of hearing, he still has access to sign and some sound.
If hes hearing, he has access to both.

Why in so much agony? I dont get it.
 
Well, I just don't want him to have hearing aids if he doesn't need them. Obviously no one wants that. And if he does have a progressive loss, I would certainly invest more time in learning sign. Right now, I know some very basic baby signs that I do with him, but he really doesn't seem interested. I try and try, but he has not reciprocated yet. My oldest would sign with me, and he is hearing.

I just want to know either way, and it is just hard and frustrating not having a clear answer, you know? One person says this, the other says that. I just want to know the truth so I can make a plan for him. I feel like I can't make a plan without knowing for sure. And I would LOVE to become fluent in sign if that is what he needs, but...and I don't mean this to sound terrible...I have three boys who take up so much of my day, and I also work from home and am in school...so learning sign would be one more thing on my plate. Now, if that is what he NEEDS, then absolutely...I would quit my online classes if that is what it takes. But at this point I am not even sure if he has a hearing loss, and neither is his new audiologist or his parental adviser. And if he does have one, well, what kind?

I just want to make the best decisions for him, and of course I have no problem learning sign language, and as I said, I am already signing basic things with him against the advice of the audis...but fluency in ASL is not a goal for me unless his loss is progressing. I still plan to incorporate basic signs and basic phrases, but like I said...I already don't have time to devote to working and classes as it is...but if he needs it, I will quit.
 
Back
Top