God Versus Satan

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Liebling:-)))

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Yeah, since after Jesus' Ascension, shouldn't be put to death on witchcrafts. But not sure, if there were victims and etc in those time. Just like Islamic's law executing many like homosexuals, converting to christianity or other religions and etc.

Long, long time after Jesus, the people were being burnt to death for "witch" because they know how to heal sick people with herbs. They have no idea what "miracle" is but evil or witch. I know those history was in England. I beleive that it´s also the same with other countries as well, not just Islamic.
 
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Liebling:-)))

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Yes there is, Why hasn't God wipe us out yet, like he did during the Noak's time? Because Jesus was the one who died on the cross for us, God giving us a chance to turn around and do what's right. ;)

This is same thing what JW people told me but it make no sense to me.
 

Cheri

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It´s just because Jesus work miracle like some people at presents who can did with miracles to heal the people.
Oh really? Who would bring a body that been dead for four days back to life? Do you know anyone who did that? Jesus did, Jesus brought Lazarus who had been dead for four days back to life. Jesus' miracles were literally true, not likely the same as people would present in the society today. :)
 

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Buddha or any other religion such as idols like Mary/Jesus statues, Buddha statue, and so forth are NOT really God. Know why ? Let me show you the scriptures here what God says about them :

Isaiah 46:9-10

" Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; [I am] God, and there is none like me; declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times things that are not [yet] done; saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure.... "

Soo, God says that He DON'T KNOW the other god such as Buddha or Pink Elephant or what ever there is an idol outta there. Know why ? Because, there is none like God.

I say "BuddhISM" not Buddha. Also I think you will love what Buddha said. He, Buddha, himself said that he is not a "God". I can't remember what exactly what he said but it's like this "I am not your guide, but teach you to have peace and joy" something like this. Buddha never mention himself as superpower creator (which definite as "God"), he's just a man. He have parents, he used to be a prince, his parents protect him from seeing people become sick and suffer and die. Till he finally see those happens, he stopped worshipping to Hinduism, and quit as being prince and travel around India. While he travel, he teach people to learn how to let the suffer go and be happy/peace no matter what where, situation, etc we are in. He's very spiritual man. It's just his biography.

Plus, I don't know where you find about "Pink Elphant" in the Buddhism, I think you probably misunderstood Buddhism by Hinduism.

Now I stop talking about Buddhism and go back to this point of the thread. Because people just kept telling things that are NOT Buddhism.

ANYWAY......


Liebling:-))) said:
I have an other suggestion.

It could be that Joseph and Mary have sex before marriage then Mary become pregnant? To their time, Mary would label as whore and stone her to death. That´s how they use God as an excuse to make up stories that it´s God who made her pregnant... It´s just suggestion of me.

Different view.. I never thought of that..
 

Reba

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Of course I already stated that I am a Satan... :)
So, you claim to be Satan, and XBGMER claims to be God. That's just peachy keen. :roll:


Sure, Jesus scarified his life for the people and his belief to Roman but every religions accept the fact that Jesus is son of God except Christianity.
That has always been one of Satan's prime tools for leading people away from the Savior. It's more persuasive to convince people that Jesus was a good man, a great prophet, a wise teacher, a special angel, a son of God, etc.; anything that denies Jesus IS God Himself.


Look at the example of the people who commit murder, rape, abuse become born Christians again...? They are bad people and are being accept to go heavens because they accept to beleive in God and God´s forgiveness..., not good people who never commit murder, rape, etc.. that´s because they don´t beleive in God... Oh my dear....:eek3:
That statement reminds me of the Pharisees. They believed they were "too good" to need salvation.

This is what Jesus said:

Luke 18
9 And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others: 10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican. 11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. 12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess. 13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner. 14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.


It is the sinners who need to repent (turn away from a sinful life) and accept Jesus (go towards a holy life).

Do you prefer that killers, rapists, etc., NOT repent? Do you prefer that they continue their sinful ways? It sounds like you don't believe in forgiveness or a "second chance". If a person makes a wrong choice in life, is there no way out?


My parents created me, not God. My parents has the right to judge me, not God.
God created your first parents; without them, your birth parents, and you, would not exist.

Your parents don't need to judge you.
 

Liebling:-)))

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Originally Posted by PuyoPiyo
Well it's very hard to believe in God.

The New Testament of the Bible is only made after Jesus came to the earth, some people don't believe that Jesus was a saviour, for example, Judaism, Islamic, and Muslim who don't believe in the New Testament of the Bible, only the Old Testament of the Bible.

Here's my proof, go grab your bible and open it, you will find there's two, Old and New Testament in just one bible. That's Christianity Bible (including its root like Mormons, Catholic, etc).

If you are not interest into Buddhism, don't continue reading the rest of this post.

Even I am Theravada Buddhism, I feel like Jesus is a foregin to me and is a believeable. Also there's God introduction to Buddhism, there's lot of Buddhist people believe into God and follow Buddha's guide and reading the Bible same time (which what I am doing right now). While I study about what Buddha taught, it help me to understand about living and suffer, how to let suffer go, and how to live in peace and joy, etc.

Anyway, I better shut my mouth about Buddhism, but it always help me while I want to believe into God.

"What you think, you become" - Siddhartha Guatama (Buddha)




I agree with you.

In the Old Testament, God encouraged beatings and being stoned to death for small crimes. In the New Testament, God didn't encourage it.

So, which do we follow?

You're right about some religions following specific parts of the Bible.

It's like the Pope and the Vatican. As I said before, rumor has it that another book was found to contain stories of Jesus being married. The Church dismissed it and called her a whore instead.

Yes I´m agree with you both.

I find the difference between Old and New Testament very strange...
*scratch my head* It look like that they tried to change and correct God as loving in New Testament...

Example: At Old Testament, Mary Magdalene was being label as whore/prositutue but at New Testament, she was label as a sinful woman.

True I remember those stories from TV Document - The DaVinci. I saw on TV about them sometimes. They suggest that Jesus and Mary married and have a child. Mary was pregnant that´s time Jesus was nailed to death. At their time, if you kiss a girl to the public which is mean is your wife... That´s how Mary wiped Jesus´s feet with her hair. Jesus kiss Mary on her lip to the public which mean is her husband.

I noticed from DVD The Passion of the Christ, Mary Magdalene was with Jesus all the time until he died on the cross...

I must say that it´s interesting to watch TV Document - The DaVinci but I has to agree that it could be not 100% correct but suggestion... sometimes I agree with their theory and logic. They focus the facts and proof but it´s hard to prove that Jesus and Mary were really married and produced a child together.
 

xentar

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I don't get why some people are hell-bent on destroying the kind of spiritual life some people have chosen as their/our guide.

I'll continue to read this thread but I'm gonna be largely ignoring the put-downs because I see no sincerity coming from some people....

religion cannot win logic debates.
religion is not logical. critical thinkers are logical people(mostly).
religion is faith. you believe it despite logical flaws and lack of proof.

you can either simply look at what I wrote above as a 'put-down' or you can point out the flaws (if any) i made. while it may look like we're "hell-bent" on destroying everything you believe in, we're simply critically thinking and applying logic on an invisible object you believe in.

do these people wake up from bed and tell themselves "hey, i'm going to be an asshole and give christians a hard time!" no, of course they don't. instead people like me come to a debate thread like this one and try to use factual evidence to explain some of the things being discussed here without the need of relying on a supernatural force to explain or fill in the missing gap.

take for example in the last page, I asked anyone to provide factual evidence that the flood found in the bible happened. a reasonable request considering this should be very easy for christians. right? (seems like everyone is ignoring it though)
 

Reba

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Yes, their time is different as our present time including culture as well but why the people do what the bible says instead of accept the bible as history? We all accept their past time as history and move on to consider our own life at present time... Look at real world, we have... the poor and sick people who needs our support and help. It´s them, we should worry about instead of worship God all the time and do what the bible says.
Part of worshiping God and obeying the Bible includes loving and caring for other people.


Sorry, I has to disagree with you... How do you know that all babies, toddlers and children become bad people like their parents.
I don't. That's why it's up to God to make those decisions.


Look at real world, why can´t God destory Satan and tree of knowledge in FIRST PLACE when he KNEW it happens to earth after create Eve and Adam....
So you do acknowledge that God created Adam and Eve, that Satan exists, that God knows the future and people's hearts, and that the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil was in the Garden of Eden, a real place? That's what you are stating here.


Well, Hilter like every babies who born innocent and were being raised in form of fashion ways by his parents and later to make himself into a monster. We only know that Hilter was being raised by strict parents.
So, you are completely avoiding my question.

Interesting; lots of people have strict, even cruel parents, but they don't become Hitlers. I think that's just a cop out.


My baby would get the help if I know the future to aviod my baby become monster or whatever. Look at example of my son´s ADD...
Totally avoiding the question I asked.


I know he has to get the help before it goes worst when he become older... He got the help... It´s an exactly what if I notice something wrong with my baby then get the help straight way before it´s too late. I would never kill my baby but help them to look at good path. It´s parental´s job to do for their children. Why kill ?
Did you misunderstand my question?

"What if you knew the future, and you knew a certain baby living now would someday grow up and murder your sons. Would you kill that baby now? Or would you just let the baby grow up and kill your sons?"

I didn't say anything about you killing your sons. I said, would you kill a baby now to prevent it from growing up to become the killer of your sons later? Would you protect your sons from the future killer?
 

Reba

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...do these people wake up from bed and tell themselves "hey, i'm going to be an asshole and give christians a hard time!"
Some do, some don't.
 

Cheri

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I find the difference between Old and New Testament very strange...
*scratch my head* It look like that they tried to change and correct God as loving in New Testament...

Between New Testament vs Old Testament is different, In the Old Testament it tells Where did the universe come from, Who was the creator, God's promises on a Messiah, Why do people do wrong and evil things, Adam and Eve's history, God's plan for the world, Pre-exile and post-exile history, I could go on and on.... ;) God had people that disobey him, There was no sinless person on earth during the Old Testament time, was imperfect because it could not offer forgiveness of sins would need a blood of a sinless person to save us. ;) Remember Adam and Eve brought evil in the world, people were sinning, doing evil, the world was in chaos.

In the New Testament is all about Jesus the Messiah that God promised us from the Old Testament, his life and the end of time (judgment day) Jesus whom die for our sins, blood of Christ save us, His death provided the atoning sacrifice for the sins of the world. If we believe in Jesus we are save. ;)

The bottom line is that there's no changes made, between the Old Testament and New Testament. It is difficult to understand, People remove the Creator (God) from their society, their lives, their thoughts, and evolved from lower life forms How people commit acts of violence and evil toward others and tends to ignored God's law in the Old Testament, God has been grieved by these acted of violence, God holds each person accountable for their sinful deeds, that was in Old Testament, the New Testament how Jesus was send to pay the penalty for our sins because of our failure to obey God. He did that for us, just like he promise in the Old Testament.

So what are you so confused about? Again with the assumptions?
 

Reba

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Walked across the great lake? Recently scientists have found evidence that in that area, there were ice (consisting of specific minerals) that floated below the water... enough for a person to walk on.
Link please. :)

Scientists have speculated that maybe Jesus walked on ice. There is no evidence that there was ever any ice on the Sea of Galilee. There is no documentation, even in secular history, of that "ice".

Also, since the fishermen disciples were very experienced with that sea, if there was ice present, wouldn't they notice it, and say something about it?

How did ice form on the lake during a storm with heavy winds and waves? Their ship was "tossing about." On ice?

Why did Peter sink and Jesus did not? Wouldn't the ice support Peter the same way as it supported Jesus?


Oh wait, it was written in the Bible... by someone else who heard it from someone else who heard it from someone else. Doesn't that sound like an urban legend?
No. The disciples were eye witnesses to Jesus walking on the water. It wasn't something they "heard".


Diseases? I've seen Wiccans use herbs to heal some sicknesses. Those herbs were created by nature. Sadly, people call them witches and burn them at the stake. Seriously, is it only "okay" if God or Jesus does it... and "not okay" if someone else does it through resources provided by God?
Jesus' healing miracles were immediate and 100 percent complete.

BTW, even when people use herbal remedies today, those herbs were created by God.
 

xentar

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Between New Testament vs Old Testament is different, In the Old Testament it tells Where did the universe come from, Who was the creator, God's promises on a Messiah, Why do people do wrong and evil things, Adam and Eve's history, God's plan for the world, Pre-exile and post-exile history, I could go on and on.... ;) God had people that disobey him, There was no sinless person on earth during the Old Testament time, was imperfect because it could not offer forgiveness of sins would need a blood of a sinless person to save us. ;) Remember Adam and Eve brought evil in the world, people were sinning, doing evil, the world was in chaos.

Apparently you do not understand that the "Adam in Eden" story is much, much older than the Bible. Try googling " Adapa and the Southwind" and you can read the original version written down nearly 1500 years before they Hebrews wrote down their garbled and confused version of the very same thing. Abraham came from Ur, where the story began, but the illiterate Hebrews shepherds mixed things up a bit after retelling it around the campfires for centuries.

There is indeed a "serpent" in the original story. His name is Enki, the great dragon of Eridu, god of Wisdom and brother to another dragon, the storm God Enlil, who would later become the Hebrew Yahweh, and the ancient Hebrews still realized he was a dragon, with fiery breath and smoking nostrils (Psalms and II Samual). In the original version, the Garden is called Eden, and the "serpent dragon" tricks Adam out of eternal life. But Enki's motives were not particularly evil, he just wanted Adam to keep bringing him fish, rather than lose him to heaven, because what this was all about was Adam's recruitment to be an angel. Men as a whole were never supposed to have eternal life. This is another later "add on" to the story by the Hebrew shepherds.

And this is exactly why "Satan" (Enki) can be seen "hanging out" with Yahweh (Enlil), in the book of Job. They are brothers, but the high God over them both, made Satan subservient to his brother Yahweh. Satan did not become "the Devil" until much later, when the elements of Zoroastrian dualism were temporarily adopted by Judaism, and swallowed hook, line and sinker by Christianity. The fate of Satan in Revelation is stolen verbatim from much older Zoroastrain mythology. Same battle in heaven, same victorious angel, same dragon being bound, same abyss, same escape, same cast in fire, yada yada yada. "Only the names of the dragon and angel have been changed to protect the plagiarist" (who was John of Patmos).

I look forward to the day when religion is just a bad memory.
 

Reba

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Well, many women were burned to death under the name of God for bullshit reasons... property, jealousy, stupid suspicions, etc.
Sadly, many people have been falsely accused of crimes for wrong reasons, such as jealousy, property disputes, and fear. That's not God's fault. It's the fault of sinful man, using God's name to justify doing wrong things.

It's awful how people dump everything on God.
 

xentar

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The disciples were eye witnesses to Jesus walking on the water. It wasn't something they "heard".

Jesus' healing miracles were immediate and 100 percent complete.

BTW, even when people use herbal remedies today, those herbs were created by God.
I don't doubt that's what they tell you in church to make you think the Bible is accurate, but it's simply not true.

The earliest gospel was written 80 years after the alleged death of Jesus -- I say "alleged" because there's no evidence that Jesus existed. He's not mentioned in any other documents of the time except the Bible.

And there are wild inconsistencies between the four gospels -- some say Mary and Joseph traveled to Nazareth when Jesus was born, some say they actually lived there, etc. Throw in the apocryphal gospels (the ones that weren't included when the New Testament was compiled, and there are something like 80-100 of them) and the inconsistencies get even greater.

It's hard to imagine how a document that's wildly inconsistent and not supported by any other ancient texts could be more accurate than modern historical texts that have photographic and video proof for the events they describe.
 

Cheri

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xentar, the post above is the Jews view, not the Christians view, remind yourself
I'm a Christian, Each religions have their own bible, Ours is Holy Bible, Therefore the story about Adam and Eve is told in the book of Genesis in Old Testament. Hebrew dependence on the Adapa and Southwind myth, not Christians. ;)
 

xentar

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xentar, the post above is the Jews view, not the Christians view, remind yourself
I'm a Christian, Each religions have their own bible, Ours is Holy Bible, Therefore the story about Adam and Eve is told in the book of Genesis in Old Testament. Hebrew dependence on the Adapa and Southwind myth, not Christians. ;)

:shock: Ignorance must be bliss.

Do you even know your own religion, which is Christianity?

I advise that you further study your own religion, then come back and take a look at what you wrote. From there you will realize the absurdity of your post. Jews view? Hebrew dependence? Do you even know what Hebrew is? The Jews? Judaism? The frickn' Hebrew language?

Christianity - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Christianity shares its origins and many religious texts with Judaism, specifically the Hebrew Bible, known to Christians as the Old Testament. Like Judaism and Islam, Christianity is classified as an Abrahamic religion

Scroll down till you see the 'Scriptures' subsection that will explains the language dialects your bible uses.

I suggests the same for others who doesn't have the full grasp of their own religion.
 

Cheri

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:shock: Ignorance must be bliss.
Please don't be so rude, just because I don't know it that doesn't make me ignorance. I happen to be a newbie on religion and even Reba knows it. Honestly, You don't know how to be respectful, instead You can be really up-right rude most of the time. It's a disappointing. You know what? I forgive you. ;)
 

xentar

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Please don't be so rude, just because I don't know it that doesn't make me ignorance. I happen to be a newbie on religion and even Reba knows it. Honestly, You don't know how to be respectful, instead You can be really up-right rude most of the time. It's a disappointing. You know what? I forgive you. ;)

Great, now lets move on and get back on topic.
 

Reba

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...It's hard to imagine how a document that's wildly inconsistent and not supported by any other ancient texts could be more accurate than modern historical texts that have photographic and video proof for the events they describe.
I hope you're not so naive as to believe everything you read in "history" books, nor that you accept all photographic and video "proof" as equally credible. Wasn't it just last year that some "news" photographers and videographers were caught doctoring their "proof" for national news services?

You can believe in the world's sources if you want. As for me, I know in Whom I have believed. 2 Timothy 1:12
 
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