Games Still Have to Deal with Sexism

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David Cage: “Games still have to deal with some kind of sexism”

Beyond: Two Souls writer David Cage has stated that he didn’t consciously make the game’s star female, and that the games industry still needs to think hard about the issue of gender. He believes the tide is slowly changing, however.



20121130_beyond_two_souls.jpg



Speaking with MCV, Cage said of his decision to cast Ellen Page as his lead in Beyond, “I don’t feel I consciously ‘opted’ for a female character, it is just the story I wanted to tell that drove the decision.
Cage continued, “What always surprises me is that this is not a question anyone would ask to a novelist or a film director. Their audiences would never question that a female character could make their story as interesting and powerful.


(Read more...)
 
From the article:

“Games still have to deal with some kind of sexism, especially as a lot of the time they’re focused on violence. Male characters tend to have more muscles and fighting capabilities. Female characters usually have an impressive breast and primitive psychology, they are the reward for the brave male hero."

Is the reward for the brave female hero not to get the male character with big muscles and fighting capability? In a game governed by violence, would a non-violent character be seen as a reward?

I recently watched the Stars Spartacus series on DVD. The female characters saw upward mobility by becoming the mates of male characters. Clearly, this was the case in the time of Spartacus, 70 BC.

So, I have to ask, what would even a violent game's sexism? Would it be that women portrayed in those games use men for sex as well(as is the case in Spartacus' male slaves)?
 
Like other member said, the sexism is common part of concern in art.

Some games have female characters as playable like Tales series and Final Fantasy series. Dead or Alive 5 has many female characters.
 
Well, I have seen so plenty of them... Female characters are sexual objects and/or rewards for heroes, yes. But, do you realize that David Cage have a hard time to deal with the real problem? He is still tired of being turned down because it doesn't meet the expectation. So, he had to change the way of shooting games for a bit of new dictation. Also, he is frustrated with stupid and double standards in video games.

Also, you said, "Is the reward for the brave female hero not to get the male character with big muscles and fighting capability? In a game governed by violence, would a non-violent character be seen as a reward?" That's just lubricious. You have no idea how often male gamers would turn off if there is male partially nudity, and sometimes, female nudity is just too much for them. Do you know that there is an offical forum for Tomb Raider Reboot where you can see one thread provided a load of complaints about Lara's moaning and groaning in pain? Well, because those are sound like a "porn", while you will not see any thread from Naughty Dog Forum would complain about Nathan Drake's moaning and groaning in pain that is very same way Lara does.

That is a whole point! Well, if you don't think it's apply anything, then whatever. There is nothing that I can explain, anyway.

Someone nailed it well:

It’s not that I particularly mind that they’re out there, nor do I judge or have any opinion about the women themselves for picking that career. Nor do I care much if guys are more likely to buy “sexualised” products (though I personally think it’s an insult to their intelligence).

My beef is it’s pretty much the *only* time I will see women in games or tech media. There is no coverage of normal everyday girls. There has to be ying to the yang, you know? It’s like they don’t exist, it’s like I don’t exist. The media forces me to be, and remain, a minority; because I’m either a hotty tottie flashing my pikachu boobs or I don’t exist at all.



It would be the equivalent of say, never showing a single shot of a geeky guy outside a game store, instead showing oiled up Hercules guys grinning at a cam. Every time. On every news story. There’s no grey area for bog standard gamer women like there is for bog standard gamer men.


Also, regarding booth babes specifically, surely you can see how their presence, en masse, would only ever put off “bog standard girls” from attending? We’re not daft, we know it’s aimed at guys, and so it makes us feel like we’re entering a space that is reserved for men. Thus the problem of tech/geek girls being a silent minority remains a problem, repeat.
 
Have you played one of Cage's previous games, Fahrenheit (aka The Indigo Prophecy)?

One of the two main characters is Carla Valenti who is an intelligent, independent, professional police detective. An excellent female character.

Oh wait, here comes her shower scene. Look how big her boobs are! And they're all soapy and the camera is going to move slowly around her body to let you get a good look.

SPOILER: We're back later, and now she's getting them out again to have sex with the other protagonist! A sex scene that's come completely out of nowhere, makes no sense in the context of the story and just feels like exploitation.

Way to cheapen the whole thing, Cage.
 
Old news... When I played L4D game. a female character name is "Zoey" and then, They stared at her body and drooling. I puzzled and I found out they downloaded skin mod. rolling eyes at perverts....
 

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hehe, remember Nude Raider? PC mod, just changed the texture to make her naked (albeit with boots and gunbelt)

Then there's Saint's Row 3, you murder people, blow up the cops... but if you're naked OH NO HUGE CENSOR BLOCKS, nakedness is more horrible than blood and guts. Unless you just buy your character some pink nipple pasties and a body-coloured thong. Likewise in the Sims, heaven forbid you see someone get out of the shower.
 
Nobody is stopping anyone from writing a game that they feel is not sexist. However, given that sexism is a point of view, that person would have a hard time pleasing everyone in the audience.

One person's sexism is another person's foreplay, you're never going to get around it unless you make it illegal.
 
Check it out: Tired of the Video Game Industry by *TomPreston on deviantART and

I see some vent journals complain about female gamers being looked down and sexual objects on females in video games.

Also-- about Fahrenheit. Do you realize it is from 2005. Old news. David Cage is changed over time. If I recall, his Heavy Rain game has only one scene is a half-naked woman if you keep looking for something to hit the jerk guy. Thankfully, Cage gives you an optional to grab something to hit the guy before you would have to see. So, I wouldn't surprise if there will be less sexualization (sp?) in Beyond Two Souls. But, you have to realize that if games don't provide some "awesome and sexy" female characters, you would not get a lot of money and would decrease your sales. There is an article about Naughty Dog worried about sales and money if they provides a poster picture of the main female character. See?

Sure, Cage's hypocrisy is not quite flattery, but if you're attention enough, you should understand why Tom is frustrated just as Cage is, too.
 
It's from 2005, it's still true. It remains to be seen if he's changed so I'll wait and see if he has or not.
 
Check it out: Tired of the Video Game Industry by *TomPreston on deviantART and

I see some vent journals complain about female gamers being looked down and sexual objects on females in video games.


It is an interesting article. It makes me wonder about something:

When you write a novel, make a video or on any media that conveys a story, isn't how you present that story intended to to describe and provoke the emotions of that story? For example, would the same emotion be invoked if a less than flattering character were to play the lead role? My point is: The object of casting a women(a beautiful woman) in a sexual way is to incite those types of emotion, the allure of her beauty and the emotion of lust.

So, my question is: How would you invoke those emotions without describing or displaying them in a way that the user can relate to them? How would you make a reader or viewer understand the desire of a main character without making the object of that desire appealing to that viewer or reader themselves?

I don't think this is possible to make that connection without it. The reason we have beautiful women in movies(and men for that matter) is because it is easy to feel the attraction. It's easy to understand why Edward Cullen loves Bella. It is also easy to understand why women scream when Taylor Laurent takes his shirt off(And, lets be fair, women video producers/movie would use Taylor too).

You may also notice that the same type of mechanism is used to convey hatred for a villain, but I don't see anyone complaining that less than attractive characters are always playing villains, sadly.
 
When you write a novel, make a video or on any media that conveys a story, isn't how you present that story intended to to describe and provoke the emotions of that story? For example, would the same emotion be invoked if a less than flattering character were to play the lead role? My point is: The object of casting a women(a beautiful woman) in a sexual way is to incite those types of emotion, the allure of her beauty and the emotion of lust.

So, my question is: How would you invoke those emotions without describing or displaying them in a way that the user can relate to them? How would you make a reader or viewer understand the desire of a main character without making the object of that desire appealing to that viewer or reader themselves?

I remember finding a book called 'Cry Wolf' by Wilbur Smith in the lost property box at work It's about two mercenaries (the classic odd couple of a snooty Brit and a brash American) who are trying to deliver armoured cars to the Ethiopian government during the Italian invasion in WW2.The two heroes pick up a spunky female journalist along the way. The author wasted no opportunity to depict her as a sex object.

When they are cornered by the Italians, they use her blouse as a white flag but the Italian soldiers are so mesmerized by her large breasts that they freeze and the heroes manage to escape.

At some point there's a problem with a winch or a crane or something and the crank spins wildly, tearing her shirt open and battering her breasts until they're all red and sore.

She goes to bathe in a lake and is attacked by a lion and has to run (naked of course) back to camp.

Both the heroes are determined to have her, which is just as well as she puts out for both of them. After a sequence in which she goes into her tent and lies naked, waiting for the Brit to join her, her nipples so hard with desire that they 'pained her exquisitely' and her brown haired mound itching with need... I closed the book in disgust and threw it away. I figured the author had gotten bored of the action adventure halfway through and was instead filling the rest of the book with his perverse fantasies to get himself off to.

I haven't exaggerated any of this, this is the sort of detail that was gone into.
 
I remember finding a book called 'Cry Wolf' by Wilbur Smith in the lost property box at work It's about two mercenaries (the classic odd couple of a snooty Brit and a brash American) who are trying to deliver armoured cars to the Ethiopian government during the Italian invasion in WW2.The two heroes pick up a spunky female journalist along the way. The author wasted no opportunity to depict her as a sex object.

When they are cornered by the Italians, they use her blouse as a white flag but the Italian soldiers are so mesmerized by her large breasts that they freeze and the heroes manage to escape.

At some point there's a problem with a winch or a crane or something and the crank spins wildly, tearing her shirt open and battering her breasts until they're all red and sore.

She goes to bathe in a lake and is attacked by a lion and has to run (naked of course) back to camp.

Both the heroes are determined to have her, which is just as well as she puts out for both of them. After a sequence in which she goes into her tent and lies naked, waiting for the Brit to join her, her nipples so hard with desire that they 'pained her exquisitely' and her brown haired mound itching with need... I closed the book in disgust and threw it away. I figured the author had gotten bored of the action adventure halfway through and was instead filling the rest of the book with his perverse fantasies to get himself off to.

I haven't exaggerated any of this, this is the sort of detail that was gone into.

You found a book you didn't like and you threw it away, you did the right thing. The book, obviously, wasn't meant for you.

There are a million things in this world you will like and there is a million things you won't. There are a million things you can have and there are a million things you can't. That's life.

But, here is the good part, you now know what you should read and what you should not. A good experience none the less.
 
David Cage: “Games still have to deal with some kind of sexism”

Beyond: Two Souls writer David Cage has stated that he didn’t consciously make the game’s star female, and that the games industry still needs to think hard about the issue of gender. He believes the tide is slowly changing, however.



20121130_beyond_two_souls.jpg



Speaking with MCV, Cage said of his decision to cast Ellen Page as his lead in Beyond, “I don’t feel I consciously ‘opted’ for a female character, it is just the story I wanted to tell that drove the decision.
Cage continued, “What always surprises me is that this is not a question anyone would ask to a novelist or a film director. Their audiences would never question that a female character could make their story as interesting and powerful.


(Read more...)

Look at the new Tomb Raider, finally they have a TR done right. Lara Croft, if she did all these things, would look like that, sweaty and dirty and scratched. And she saves a lot of guys from a lot of stuff.
 
Use female character in Donkey Kong. :)

Surely we should just be seeing that one person has been kidnapped and another is going to their assistance, not their individual genders? :laugh2:

Look at the new Tomb Raider, finally they have a TR done right. Lara Croft, if she did all these things, would look like that, sweaty and dirty and scratched. And she saves a lot of guys from a lot of stuff.

I haven't played the game, but I read that she struggles to come to terms with killing people in the cutscenes - but in the actual gameplay she blasts people left right and centre.

How far do you want your character to become banged up looking from their adventures? Faith (from Mirror's Edge) would do one of those flying jumps to land on a pipe, smash her face, black out and fall off the building. Niko Bellic would get shot, collapse in pain and have to call 911 and then spend a few weeks in hospital (depending on where he got shot).
 
metalangel said:
Likewise in the Sims, heaven forbid you see someone get out of the shower.

Actually, that's unofficial anti-mosaic censor mods from some random Sims fans, not EA itself. In my game, by EA's default, there is still censored around naked Sims whenever they do.


"She is not gonna take your games away, guys. She's not even advocating for taking away skimpy outfits and sexy characters. Talking about issues helps us resolve the issues, and it's a demonstrable FACT that the gaming industry as a whole tends to treat women in particular rather poorly. Be they a character, a game designer, or a gamer playing the games. I guess what I'm saying is... stop freaking out. EA requiring always online DRM in single-player games is more damaging to the gaming industry than Anita talking about sexism tropes.

Priorities, people, priorities.

Sidenote: I actually kinda like the mock "outfit" they gave Peach in the thumbnail and end of the video. Reminds me of when she dressed up as Luigi for the Super Mario World comic that debuted in Nintendo Power back in 1992."
-- Tom Preston

Have you any idea how Antia was treated after she released a video? Those assholes created a game that called "Beating Anita Up" or something like that, which you can play to abuse her in a photo. Also, there was an another game for raping her. She got a lot of shitstorm, seriously. Thankfully, two games were shut down and banned. It's pretty pathetic, really...

Look at the new Tomb Raider, finally they have a TR done right. Lara Croft, if she did all these things, would look like that, sweaty and dirty and scratched. And she saves a lot of guys from a lot of stuff.

Actually, I haven't play that game, yet. Someday, I will, so I can see for myself. :)


Lol, how cute! Praise her father! And I think it's nice to see awesome ladies can rescue heroes as equal as gentlemen can save ladies. Back in old times, ladies were usually provided as weak and helpless ones who need to be rescued...
 
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The sex orientation and gender are covered under my week's sociology lesson.

The sexism is indeed included in book glossary.
 
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