Gallaudet Graduate Student - Cochlear Implant Controversy Presentation

[drphil]

A factual matter: there is NO ear molds with MY Cochlear Implant.

The cost of surgery/hospital care are the "major cost" for Implants,

It is factual matter-Sunnybrook/Toronto 2 out of 3 since 1984 have been REJECTED for consideration of Implants. Source: a patients meeting last year.

Cochlear Implants are considered ONLY if hearing aids don't "assist" the person with hearing"problems" to Hear somewhat.

Batteries are rechargeable and last for a number of years. I have 8 at the present time. One battery last all day which is on all the time except when swimming.
All required items are part of the package" given the person when "hooked up" after the operation. All warrenteed for 3 years.

It depends on where the person lives how much-if any-is covered by country/state/province medical plans re: Cochlear Implants

aside: Where I live -Ontario- the entire cost was "picked up" for 3 years. I was approved. After that one must decide: insurance/Assistive Device Program-60% of the entire package or pay as required if something goes wrong.

The above is my experience since 2007.

 

[BleedingPurist]

All I can say is CI is very expensive and might not be able to work if the Deaf person admit that it does not improve his/her hearing. Everyone is different when making the decision on deciding whether they want to use CI as a risk or just go for hearing aids.

And what about the extra devices that a Deaf person has to pay for like batteries or ear mold or tubes or finding out the CI device would not be working which mean the Deaf person wants to remove CI? It is all about lots of money to pay to the Companies to do that.

Your post reveals you lack the knowledge and qualifications to even be commenting on the topic of implants. It's all fine and dandy for you to be anti-CI, but you show you really know nothing about them other than you do not want one.

You also are ignorant on the cost of hearing aids, which are not covered by insurance, and their limits as to what they can do.

When one speaks up on the opposing side of a topic, it's best to know your topic. Otherwise you wind up sounding like one of those anti-gay nutcases who uses rationale that only reveals their own issues rather than delivers any sound argument.

 

[Bebonang]

Your post reveals you lack the knowledge and qualifications to even be commenting on the topic of implants. It's all fine and dandy for you to be anti-CI, but you show you really know nothing about them other than you do not want one.

You also are ignorant on the cost of hearing aids, which are not covered by insurance, and their limits as to what they can do.

When one speaks up on the opposing side of a topic, it's best to know your topic. Otherwise you wind up sounding like one of those anti-gay nutcases who uses rationale that only reveals their own issues rather than delivers any sound argument.

Yes, I do not know much about CI, but still I don't approve of it, especially on very young children (babies).

I do wear one hearing aid which I hear only environment sounds. I am not against hearing aids. But CI is totally different matter and it is not a miracle device. It had some setbacks and problems which I had read that deaf people had trouble with CIs and want to remove them. Most of the time it is the parents who want to put CIs and hoping they will hear like hearing people. What a crock! :roll:

Those parents and doctors need to accept deafness and just learn how to sign ASL.

 

[BleedingPurist]

Yes, I do not know much about CI, but still I don't approve of it, especially on very young children (babies).

I do wear one hearing aid which I hear only environment sounds. I am not against hearing aids. But CI is totally different matter and it is not a miracle device. It had some setbacks and problems which I had read that deaf people had trouble with CIs and want to remove them. Most of the time it is the parents who want to put CIs and hoping they will hear like hearing people. What a crock! :roll:

Those parents and doctors need to accept deafness and just learn how to sign ASL.

Would you like me to point you in the direction of quite a few people who will let you know exactly how much of a miracle device their CI has been for them? Again, know your topic before you speak on it.

It's not about accepting deafness when it comes to parents and doctors, it's about giving the child every opportunity to be as self-sufficient as possible (relying on interpreters is not being self-sufficient) and interact with the world as deeply as they can. Plenty of children do very well, if not better than adult recipients, with their implants. They do hear similarly to their hearing peers. Perfectly? No, but far closer to normal than a hearing aid would ever make possible. Perfect enough.

The bottom-line is it is NOT ABOUT YOU. You are free to remain Deaf and live your life as you choose. You are not free to expect others to live as you or be happy living as you do. The fact is: deafness is a disability. The human body is meant to hear. We have the technology that makes that possible now where it wasn't possible. When it isn't possible, that's ok. Again, every opportunity under the sun should be given to the child to help them succeed. We do not rule out options. We only ascertain those options are not possible for the individual and work around it, which is exactly what you have done for yourself.

It's a different world now and going forward. Possibilities exist that didn't before.

 

[shel90]

Would you like me to point you in the direction of quite a few people who will let you know exactly how much of a miracle device their CI has been for them? Again, know your topic before you speak on it.

It's not about accepting deafness when it comes to parents and doctors, it's about giving the child every opportunity to be as self-sufficient as possible (relying on interpreters is not being self-sufficient) and interact with the world as deeply as they can. Plenty of children do very well, if not better than adult recipients, with their implants. They do hear similarly to their hearing peers. Perfectly? No, but far closer to normal than a hearing aid would ever make possible. Perfect enough.

The bottom-line is it is NOT ABOUT YOU. You are free to remain Deaf and live your life as you choose. You are not free to expect others to live as you or be happy living as you do. The fact is: deafness is a disability. The human body is meant to hear. We have the technology that makes that possible now where it wasn't possible. When it isn't possible, that's ok. Again, every opportunity under the sun should be given to the child to help them succeed. We do not rule out options. We only ascertain those options are not possible for the individual and work around it, which is exactly what you have done for yourself.

It's a different world now and going forward. Possibilities exist that didn't before.

U know..deafness doesn't have to be a disability. Society is a disability.

 

[drphil]

That is a new one: NON deafness is Soceity's disability.

Is this the lastest "dogma from deaf Militants"?

 

[BleedingPurist]

U know..deafness doesn't have to be a disability. Society is a disability.

Shoulda, woulda, coulda.... this isn't a debate about how it should be for your benefit. The fact is you live in a hearing world and it is YOU that must adapt to it, not the other way around. You get to have concessions like interpreters and closed captioning. You get to have legal protections. None of that changes you need to operate in a hearing world. Every advantage needs to be taken including new ones as they arise, that includes medical intervention for kids so they don't have to unnecessarily struggle as much as previous generations did.

 

[kokonut]

Shoulda, woulda, coulda.... this isn't a debate about how it should be for your benefit. The fact is you live in a hearing world and it is YOU that must adapt to it, not the other way around. You get to have concessions like interpreters and closed captioning. You get to have legal protections. None of that changes you need to operate in a hearing world. Every advantage needs to be taken including new ones as they arise, that includes medical intervention for kids so they don't have to unnecessarily struggle as much as previous generations did.

True, however, what Shel was getting at is that we shouldn't be looked upon as people with disabilities but people who simply need the right accomodation instead of constantly fighting the system in order to be on equal footings. If society take on a pro-active approach and see us as equals then there is no need for "concessions." But some people are just inherently stubborn not realizing that they are just temporarily abled bodies for the time being until the day the become "one of us" and find out that the very system they have protected will turn against them.

 

[deafdyke]

True, however, what Shel was getting at is that we shouldn't be looked upon as people with disabilities but people who simply need the right accomodation instead of constantly fighting the system in order to be on equal footings. If society take on a pro-active approach and see us as equals then there is no need for "concessions." But some people are just inherently stubborn not realizing that they are just temporarily abled bodies for the time being until the day the become "one of us" and find out that the very system they have protected will turn against them.

So why do you have such a preoccupation with being exclusively oral and how it alledgely gives you more oppertunties? If you were a wheelchair user you'd be one of those ones who saw yourself as being wheelchair bound instead of a wheelchair user....You're so fixated on functioning As Normally As Possible.Maybe that's due to the fact that when you were young, it was conisdered better to fake being normal then it was to be "different' in any way. (and heck that wasn't just about dhh/disabilty...a LOT of other "different" people had to hide themselves and fake being normal instead of being true to themselves.......If a Dhh person is in an enviroment where everyone Signs, they don't have a disadvantage.....As a matter of fact those who sign, have a STRONGER advantage in less then perfect listening situtions, (including over hearing people) as they can Sign in a noisy room.....hearing people and dhh who do not Sign are at a DISADVANTAGE in those types of situtions.
Saying that oral only/focusing on oralism as The Universal Key to Sucess is like saying that if you're a good driver in perfect conditions, you'll be a good driver in ALL and ANY conditions...........Oral dhh tend to be LOST outside of perfect listening conditions....The world is not a soundbooth after all.....
Many pro sign folks support dhh kids learning to speak......heck I know of someone who has her daughter in a Sign program four days a week,and then on the 5th day, she attends the John Tracy program.......The difference is that oralists think that oral skills are a bigger piece of the puzzle then they actually ARE IRL.

 

[Babyblue]

Wirelessly posted

Why does there need to be a controversy about it? In addition to wearing HA's, I also wear an insulin pump for type 1 diabetes. Mind you, I am late onset HoH, I am also late inset type 1 (MODY). I use two medical devices to compensate for two anatomical deficiencies, 1 being my hearing, the other processing (using insulin to) process sugar. If CI would improve my ability to hear, I'd be all over that like a fat kid on a donut. No controversy in wearing either devices, it is do or do not.

Don't feel bad though, compare the CI to the insulin pump, there are old school diabetics that firmly believe in MDI (multiple daily injections) over the pump, there is the deaf culture that goes many directions in the use of medical devices to hear, CI, HA or remaining in a silent world and relying on sign. all of which are subjective and very individual.

What do I believe the medical community is trying to do? for one thing, they are trying to make money, for another, to do the first, they have to make thngs better (subjective) for XYZ, in this case, making hearing possible for the deaf, making hearing BETTER for the deaf by creating the technology to make machines to perform the functions that the body, for whatever reason is not doing or doing properly.

No controversy there, in street speak, it is what it is.

My son used to be on the pump. Believe it or not. He prefers the pens. Which I can understand. He started the pens when he was 16 and now 18 he still uses a pen. As an active sweaty teen, his insets kept falling off. and his cord would get caught while playing etc.

 

[kokonut]

So why do you have such a preoccupation with being exclusively oral and how it alledgely gives you more oppertunties?

What I have said repeatedly is that I would not being doing the things I have done (and continue to do so) had it not for the early intervention and the wonderful technology called the "hearing aid." Not allegedly when it is a fact that I have experienced those opportunities as a result. I didn't simply arrive here without hard work. You are clearly twisting things (if not outright projecting). How people see "opportunities" are either subjective or factual.

If you were a wheelchair user you'd be one of those ones who saw yourself as being wheelchair bound instead of a wheelchair user....

It'd be impossible to project oneself into a scenario never having experienced it and make that kind of nonsense call. Entirely subjective and speculative on your and even on my part if I were to surmise on how I would see myself as. But in this case, as a hearing aid user, I see myself as a person with a hearing loss and I don't pretend that I don't have one. I am, however, thankful for my hearing aids over the years that I have worn and continue to wear today.

You're so fixated on functioning As Normally As Possible.

Not sure why you are so pre-occupied the whole "normally as possible" shtick. I know I have limitations. I have said so repeatedly in AD over the years. I have a preference and that is to speak and listen. No big mystery there. Speaking comes naturally to me. Listening takes more effort, of course, which is why I spoke of accommodations that are helpful to me in certain environment.

Maybe that's due to the fact that when you were young, it was conisdered better to fake being normal then it was to be "different' in any way.

Oh, I had my deaf and hearing friends. They can clearly see my hearing aid. They also know my limitations and I let them know about it. I even gave presentations in classes about my hearing loss, my hearing aid and what they can do to facilitate communications with me when I was young. Nothing to fake about it when you acknowledge it.

(and heck that wasn't just about dhh/disabilty...a LOT of other "different" people had to hide themselves and fake being normal instead of being true to themselves.......

Acknowledging your limitations to others helps. Not speaking up or hiding it doesn't help here.

If a Dhh person is in an enviroment where everyone Signs, they don't have a disadvantage.....

Certainly (there is a caveat tho'), this is true among SEE signers or even Cued speech users.

As a matter of fact those who sign, have a STRONGER advantage in less then perfect listening situtions, (including over hearing people) as they can Sign in a noisy room.....

Okayyy....so? There are disadvantages and advantages in any mode of communication.

hearing people and dhh who do not Sign are at a DISADVANTAGE in those types of situtions.

People who can hear and understand conversations in a dark or dim area are at an advantage over those who cannot. But so what?

Saying that oral only/focusing on oralism as The Universal Key to Sucess is like saying that if you're a good driver in perfect conditions, you'll be a good driver in ALL and ANY conditions...........

You are obviously projecting your insecurity here. I never advocated "oral only."

Oral dhh tend to be LOST outside of perfect listening conditions....The world is not a soundbooth after all.....

Hearing loss range from mild to profound with a variety of frequency loss. So, the type of listening condition that's conducive to a person varies. Some have it easier in one type of listening condition when for others it'd be impossible to function in that kind of an environment.

Many pro sign folks support dhh kids learning to speak......heck I know of someone who has her daughter in a Sign program four days a week,and then on the 5th day, she attends the John Tracy program.......The difference is that oralists think that oral skills are a bigger piece of the puzzle then they actually ARE IRL.

*shrug*

Whatever.

..

 

[Mewtilation]

To each their own. If you want a CI, go for it! If you don't want a CI, that's your choice. I personally can appreciate the advantages in the working environment mine has given me, however prefer leaving it out other than that. I can see both sides of the story with them. Some liking them and some hating them. However, I realize we're all individuals and all have different preferences and choices when it comes to CI implants. I don't think a CI defines a Deaf / HoH person in any way. You're always going to have people hardcore against it, or hardcore for it and as I said, to each their own. If you have one and like it... GREAT! If you don't want one, that's great too. This is a topic that can always seem to make Deafies roar up and become super defensive no matter what side they chose. Again, to each their own, we're all able to make our decisions off of what we do or don't know... that's our right. :P

 

[shel90]

Shoulda, woulda, coulda.... this isn't a debate about how it should be for your benefit. The fact is you live in a hearing world and it is YOU that must adapt to it, not the other way around. You get to have concessions like interpreters and closed captioning. You get to have legal protections. None of that changes you need to operate in a hearing world. Every advantage needs to be taken including new ones as they arise, that includes medical intervention for kids so they don't have to unnecessarily struggle as much as previous generations did.

But it didn't have to be that way, right?

 

[kokonut]

To each their own. If you want a CI, go for it! If you don't want a CI, that's your choice. I personally can appreciate the advantages in the working environment mine has given me, however prefer leaving it out other than that. I can see both sides of the story with them. Some liking them and some hating them. However, I realize we're all individuals and all have different preferences and choices when it comes to CI implants. I don't think a CI defines a Deaf / HoH person in any way. You're always going to have people hardcore against it, or hardcore for it and as I said, to each their own. If you have one and like it... GREAT! If you don't want one, that's great too. This is a topic that can always seem to make Deafies roar up and become super defensive no matter what side they chose. Again, to each their own, we're all able to make our decisions off of what we do or don't know... that's our right. :P

Nothing new.

 

[deafdyke]

Shoulda, woulda, coulda.... this isn't a debate about how it should be for your benefit. The fact is you live in a hearing world and it is YOU that must adapt to it, not the other way around. You get to have concessions like interpreters and closed captioning. You get to have legal protections. None of that changes you need to operate in a hearing world. Every advantage needs to be taken including new ones as they arise, that includes medical intervention for kids so they don't have to unnecessarily struggle as much as previous generations did.

Um FYI, the overwhelming majority of kids with CI STILL require all the spectrum of accomondations that other dhh kids (unaided and aided) do. At best they are functionally HOH.....they're not "more hearing then deaf"...they can percieve sound yes............The ONLY difference with this generation vs previous generations is that kids can aquire speech skills a bit easier (ie there's not a lot of 1960's style Rubella bulge kids who are three years old and barely communicating) The CI DOES NOT change the fact that kids with it are NOT HEARING.....they are HOH!

 

[deafdyke]

Why does there need to be a controversy about it?

If I may....I think the controversy has gone down quite a bit.....It's not a black and white sitution..If it's totally and completely clear that hearing aids do not help at all....that's the exact sitution that the CI was made for!
Raise the kid with the CI, while acknowleding that anything is possible with it.
I think that's where a lot of the disagreements come from....Yes, there are kids who are awesome CI users but there are also kids who don't get a ton of benifit from it......It's clear that JUST as with hearing aids, response to CI varies ENOURMOUSLY among kids. Even some late deafened people don't get a lot of benifit from them.(look at the comments at HLAA if you don't believe me....Many do love their CIs,but every so often a late deafened person will post saying they don't exactly benifit as much as others....and HLAA tends to WORSHIP and get all excited about the Latest Technologies etc.....

 

[arao6]

My Main question: "How do you feel about Cochlear Implants? What do you believe the Medical Community is trying to do? Are they trying to fix the Deaf? What might be wrong with CI's?"

Hi there. That's a tough question and a highly subjective one. Being a hearing person, I don't know how much my opinion will matter, but being part of the medical community, I can tell you that a lot of people find deafness a medical problem. In general, the medical community does not make any assertions about Deafness (note the capital 'D'); it is understood that Deafness is a sensitive and personal topic. For many Deaf individuals, calling deafness a disease is impertinent, but it is not intended to be so. From a purely scientific basis, however, restoration paves the way to understanding how these organs work and integrate in the brain. Moreover, there is a great deal of demand towards the development of cochlear products (and where there is demand, there is money). Imagine if you started to lose your eyesight--it's a terrifying experience, and I bet many people would give anything to fix it. The same is often true for deafness.

 

[Bebonang]

Hi there. That's a tough question and a highly subjective one. Being a hearing person, I don't know how much my opinion will matter, but being part of the medical community, I can tell you that a lot of people find deafness a medical problem. In general, the medical community does not make any assertions about Deafness (note the capital 'D'); it is understood that Deafness is a sensitive and personal topic. For many Deaf individuals, calling deafness a disease is impertinent, but it is not intended to be so. From a purely scientific basis, however, restoration paves the way to understanding how these organs work and integrate in the brain. Moreover, there is a great deal of demand towards the development of cochlear products (and where there is demand, there is money). Imagine if you started to lose your eyesight--it's a terrifying experience, and I bet many people would give anything to fix it. The same is often true for deafness.

The Medical Community had tried to make us suffered thinking that hearing aids and now CIs would help the Deaf hear sounds or for a lack of a better word 'Listening" which we have a hard time trying to make out. I hate oral method and still would like going to Deaf Schools where there were sign language like ASL so that we can express freedom to be able to sign with teachers and students. In the hearing world, it was not that easy trying to understand without an interpreters especially at the workplace. As for CI, it is just surgery that you can put CI in the Cochlear area of the brain. The only difference is that each d/Deaf person are different on how they can hear sounds along with their audiograph of how much they can hear and if CI would work for this person or not. As for babies, how would you know if the baby can hear the sound with CI or later find that the CI did not work. Why do they have to suffer? Can the baby wait until he or she grows older enough to know what CI is for and whether he or she be able to hear with CI. That is what troubled us very much on this. Why do we have to suffered for this over the many years having hearing people tell us what to do and refused to let us sign our first language of ASL? They don't bother to listen to our needs. That is all I have to say.

As for other posters here on this thread, stop harrassing me for my right to speak out the truth.

 

[Grummer]

That is a new one: NON deafness is Soceity's disability.

Is this the lastest "dogma from deaf Militants"?

it's New to You

 

[drphil]

I don't recall from being here in AllDeaf.com such thoughts expressed.

To the best of my knowledge-"society is NOT a person". It is not so classified in Sociology textbooks.