FDA-Shocking Results on CI Statically

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souggy said:
Not impossible.

The only truly fluent deaf people I have met with no traceable deaf accent are the profound or completely deaf. In fact, they don't have an accent-- it just perfect English or perfect French. Why? There is no FEEDBACK LOOP! Think about it for a second, how else people develop a "Manhatten" accent, a southern drawl and so on? You don't need access to hearing to be fluent in a spoken language. It will take a hella lot of training though.

Not to mention there are numerous deaf individuals that speak well without the usual "flat vowels."

In fact, aided, I can only understand 60% of what is being said in the audio booth in my good ear. Yet I am considered as a better speaker than most of my hearing peers, even though I tend to flatten out my vowels. Why?

I didn't learn how to speak until I was eight by choice. I didn't have access to hearing until I was five! In fact, I was treated like an autistic child for the first five years until they popped on hearing aids just to see "if it work" since I wasn't responding to the exams at all. I know many deaf adults that didn't learn how to speak until they were in their 20s, and they sound better than some of the deaf individuals I was around during high school.

So it is all subjective. If WeeBeastie's daughter wants to speak, she will speak. Period. As long her daughter have access to a language in which she can interact with others, then there won't be any delays.
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Interesting and valid points.
 
jillio said:
Interesting and valid points.
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Now you see why I get all puffy and irritated when people cite professionals, eh? I have seen too many things that "shouldn't" happen occurring to believe otherwise. Well the thing is, if you look what they say-- it apply to deaf people perfectly as well, but only if they don't emphasize on spoken language being the first acquired one.

Especially those damn same professionals said I wouldn't make it past grade 3, then grade 7, then grade 9, then grade 12... then they said I wouldn't be accepted into university (which I did get accepted into 7 different institutes into ten different programs. Hard part was picking only one!) :shock::eek3:
 
souggy said:
Now you see why I get all puffy and irritated when people cite professionals, eh? I have seen too many things that "shouldn't" happen occurring to believe otherwise. Well the thing is, if you look what they say-- it apply to deaf people perfectly as well, but only if they don't emphasize on spoken language being the first acquired one.

Especially those damn same professionals said I wouldn't make it past grade 3, then grade 7, then grade 9, then grade 12... then they said I wouldn't be accepted into university (which I did get accepted into 7 different institutes into ten different programs. Hard part was picking only one!) :shock::eek3:
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I dealt with many of the same type "professionals". I understand your reaction completely.
 
C-NICE said:
My meaning was that CI Debates as a general rule bring out heavy emotions especially in respect to children.
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I agree. I think it as a respect to both side, STOP! Alldeaf has been down this road so many times. Each side thinks they are right and in the end someone always gets banned. So stop, close this thread, and move on.
 
Souggy has proven me wrong. I suspect that he's a really talented person who sets goals an works diligently to obtain them. Way to to Souggy! Important point that we shouldn't limit our expectations and support.

As a parent, I walk the fine line between concerned mom who wants to support my kids' learning and over-involved mom who demands too much. It's not easy! I want my kids to be well-adjusted. I'm not always sure how to get there. It's not like kids come with a manual and each kid is different.

Valle, I'm sorry if this discussion makes you uneasy. We're trying to play nice. Well, at least it's not as out of hand as the Obama threads. :giggle:

I'm going to move on and say goodnight. I've been up for a straight 24 hours now and it's time to crash. Thanks to everyone who shared even if we didn't agree. :wave:
 
faire_jour:
If your child is severe-profoundly deaf, the ability to listen and understand speech will not be provided with hearing aids. That is a simple fact.

If YOU sign, you are giving the child the opportunity to sign, how does have a CI affect that in the least??

Oh, and a CI doesn't make someone hearing, it gives a DEAF person the ability to access sound.
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If your child is severe-profoundly deaf, the ability to listen and understand speech will not be provided with hearing aids. That is a simple fact.

I am living, solid proof that this statement is FALSE. I've worn one single hearing aid in my good ear (which is and has been severe-profound) my whole life (since I was 4 years old), and I am able to comprehend and listen to speech, music, and all other sounds just fine. I can also tell pitch, harmony, notes, instruments, and all other attributes of music just fine. Without my hearing aid, I'm deaf and only able to pick up very loud sounds without it. It all depends on how accurate your audiologist can program your hearing aid.

Don't start spreading false statements about hearing aids now!
 
faire_jour said:
I have always been told that only 20% of spoken language is visible on the mouth.
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Yea, between 20 to 30% but now that I think about it, if that's the case, then how the heck did I develop fluency in spoken English if I was only getting 20 to 30% of it of the time? Deaf children really are amazing at how they adapt to restrictive environments. I dont think enough people give them enough credit.
 
Phi4Sius said:
If your child is severe-profoundly deaf, the ability to listen and understand speech will not be provided with hearing aids. That is a simple fact.

I am living, solid proof that this statement is FALSE. I've worn one single hearing aid in my good ear (which is severe-profound) my whole life, and I am able to comprehend and listen to speech, music, and all other sounds just fine. Without my hearing aid, I'm deaf and only able to pick up very loud sounds without my hearing aid.
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I guess that makes two of us. :D
 
sallylou said:
Souggy has proven me wrong. I suspect that he's a really talented person who sets goals an works diligently to obtain them. Way to to Souggy! Important point that we shouldn't limit our expectations and support.

As a parent, I walk the fine line between concerned mom who wants to support my kids' learning and over-involved mom who demands too much. It's not easy! I want my kids to be well-adjusted. I'm not always sure how to get there. It's not like kids come with a manual and each kid is different.
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"Way to go?"

I am considered as the pinnacle of oral deaf success by many, even among CI users. Despite all of what was achieved, I still consider it all as a failure. Why? Have you really achieved anything if you are not happy?

There's only three times I am happy: when I write, when I am exposed to drums and bass, and when I sign. Otherwise I am this pissy person you see before you.

But yes, it's like what I said in my blog about "deaf shame." Child-rearing is experimental. No one knows what is right and what is wrong. And everyone will have a major underlining issue that run them into the ground one way or another, so parents shouldn't beat themselves up too hard if things go weird. How I measure parents' success is by how well-socialized their kids are in group conversations. No more, no less.
 
sallylou said:
It seems like faire_joure is saying that she wants her child to be as close to normal as possible. Is that right, faire_jour?

If so, you want to make your deaf child hearing. You can't possibly know what it's like being deaf simply because you're not deaf. You haven't experienced it. You may not realize what you're asking her to do. It may be impossible. It depends on the child and whether the particular implant in question holds up. It's important to be flexible.

There was as intelligent young man posting about his desire to go to a deaf high school. Your child may want to go to deaf school some day, especially during adolescence when peers are more important than family and academics. It's not all about what score a person can get on a speech test. There are emotional issues, too. You might want to explore the emotional and social issues more as your child grows up. It's a real challenge to meet teen's emotional and social needs even under the best circumstances. I've got a teen and it's a wild ride sometimes.
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I don't want her to be hearing, not at all. I want her to have the opportunity to learn spoken language to the best of her ability.

She has attended a Deaf school from the beginning. I don't see why I would suddenly have a problem with that when she gets older :roll:
 
shel90 said:
I guess that makes two of us. :D
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I thought you repeatly said that you lipread? That that is the reason the mainstream was difficult. Are you saying that you can listen and understand spoken language using only your residual hearing?

Oh, and Phin, I thought your loss was progressive??
 
faire_jour said:
I thought you repeatly said that you lipread? That that is the reason the mainstream was difficult. Are you saying that you can listen and understand spoken language using only your residual hearing?
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This was in response to your original post:

If your child is severe-profoundly deaf, the ability to listen and understand speech will not be provided with hearing aids. That is a simple fact.
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And then Phi's response:

I am living, solid proof that this statement is FALSE.
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We have been saying all along that some of us can understand some speech with hearing aids. It is not a fact that we can't. I have a profound hearing loss, so I am another example as well as Phi and Shel.
 
AlleyCat said:
This was in response to your original post:



And then Phi's response:



We have been saying all along that some of us can understand some speech with hearing aids. It is not a fact that we can't. I have a profound hearing loss, so I am another example as well as Phi and Shel.
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So, you were born profoundly deaf and can understand spoken language using only your hearing? Normal conversational level and speed, spoken language?
 
I think it really boils down to the fact that some people can hear speech with HA's, some can't. Some Deaf people benefit from the CI, some don't. We can't speak for everyone, and we can't know until it's already happened. That's why trying to make that decision for oneself, let alone for someone else, is difficult.
 
faire_jour said:
So, you were born profoundly deaf and can understand spoken language using only your hearing? Normal conversational level and speed, spoken language?
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Some. Not all.

What I think is happening is hearing people are assuming we can't do this with HAs. Everyone with different degrees of hearing losses function at different levels in terms of spoken language, conversation, etc. I can understand some spoken language with HAs (at least I assume that's what you mean when you said "using only your hearing" -- I absolutely could not without HAs). I think many have said the same.
 
AlleyCat said:
Some. Not all.

What I think is happening is hearing people are assuming we can't do this with HAs. Everyone with different degrees of hearing losses function at different levels in terms of spoken language, conversation, etc. I can understand some spoken language with HAs (at least I assume that's what you mean when you said "using only your hearing" -- I absolutely could not without HAs). I think many have said the same.
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According to everything I have heard here, almost everyone who is profoundly deaf from birth relies on lipreading for spoken language, not listening alone.
 
I think it may have been another thread that I said this -- I do rely largely on lipreading. But I can hear/understand some words without. And others have said the same. I'm not saying that you're thinking none of us can, but it really is not a fact that the ability to listen and understand speech cannot be provided with hearing aids, as you previously stated.
 
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