FDA-Shocking Results on CI Statically

Status
Not open for further replies.

AlleyCat

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2005
Messages
18,779
Reaction score
2,276
Right. But I am giving her the option of learning to listen and speak. Why would I want to NOT open that door for her? So she decides that it is too much work and she wants to go back to all sign? SO what? At least she had the choice. If I didn't give her the tools and skills, that would be a true shame.

Very good statement!
 

CJB

New Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2009
Messages
2,758
Reaction score
1
No, there are doors that a CI opens that ASL never can. A CI gives a child the opportunity to learn to LISTEN and speak. To learn spoken language, the language of the vast majority, without lireading and oftne in a much shorter amount of time, with less work.

Why wouldn't you want to give that to your child?

I would want to give my child a choice.

If my child is Deaf and feels natural being Deaf, why should I force him to be hearing? Why should I force her to conform to the mainstream? I can give my child both the ability to hear better and the ability to choose his identity by giving him powerful hearing aids. And since so many people think CI users don't need sign language, I would be closing more doors on her than I would be opening for her. Most people treat CI users like they are perfectly hearing, but the fact of the matter is that the CI doesn't completely match the hearing that occurs naturally in humans. So would I really be only opening doors?
 

vallee

New Member
Joined
Aug 26, 2007
Messages
1,216
Reaction score
0
My CIs have opened doors.

All my ci friends still wear at least one of their CIs. The majority of my CI friends find a CI rewarding. Most of my CI friends believe in their CI. Many of my CI friends understand spoken words and are not as frustrated in settings as they were with hearing aids.

CI are personal choices. Unless you either have a child or yourself, it is difficult to place yourself in my shoes. Could have, would have, should have, won't or don't are so easy if you are not faced with these choices. The interesting thing about FDA shocking results, well give the real results. Give the results that are truthful instead of the shock value. There is no shock value to me. I live this everyday for the last 2 + years. I see the rewards, I enjoy the value of these.
 

deafdude1

New Member
Joined
Feb 24, 2009
Messages
1,268
Reaction score
0
My CIs have opened doors.

All my ci friends still wear at least one of their CIs. The majority of my CI friends find a CI rewarding. Most of my CI friends believe in their CI. Many of my CI friends understand spoken words and are not as frustrated in settings as they were with hearing aids.


Why did some of them get 2 CI if they only need and wear one? Did they have problems with their first CI and rather than remove their first CI, they went ahead and got a 2nd CI in the other ear? Been a while since you posted on alldeaf. We miss you!
 

dreama

New Member
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
3,016
Reaction score
0
Those are good questions. The one for life expectancy is gonna take a very long time since the use of CI isn't older than the average life expectancy yet.

What do you mean by "hear" on the phone? You mean "understand"?

Yes Vampy: I mean understand.
 
R

rockdrummer

Guest
I know this is a delicate argument and its complexity cannot be summarized in one single sentence. Nevertheless, saying they all desire the same is a bit too general. I strongly believe on the personal and independent identity. Being deaf does not make one equal to the other deaf people, like being fat or thin does not make you equal to all the fat/thin people.
In this strong debate, this generalization emerges too often and it's the only thing really disturbing me...
Accepting deafness does not necessarily mean embracing completely the "deaf culture" and get rid of all the rest. Somebody will be happy to spend efforts in learning speech, some others not. Some would be happy to be oral only, some others to be signing only, some would be happy to get access to both worlds. What's bad about that?
Sorry, I know I added nothing to the discussion, I simply feel better saying what I think.
Well said. My gut feeling is that those who continue to generalize really do know better but there is an underlying agenda that motivates them.
 

vallee

New Member
Joined
Aug 26, 2007
Messages
1,216
Reaction score
0
thank you, been very busy with work and family

I have one friend who has chosen to not wear one of her CI as it causes a vibration. She had it replaced and it is the same after the second surgery. She does just as well with one CI. It does not vibrate unless she wears the speech processor. The majority of my friends have two CIs and love them.
 

faire_jour

New Member
Joined
Apr 26, 2008
Messages
7,188
Reaction score
3
I would want to give my child a choice.

If my child is Deaf and feels natural being Deaf, why should I force him to be hearing? Why should I force her to conform to the mainstream? I can give my child both the ability to hear better and the ability to choose his identity by giving him powerful hearing aids. And since so many people think CI users don't need sign language, I would be closing more doors on her than I would be opening for her. Most people treat CI users like they are perfectly hearing, but the fact of the matter is that the CI doesn't completely match the hearing that occurs naturally in humans. So would I really be only opening doors?

If your child is severe-profoundly deaf, the ability to listen and understand speech will not be provided with hearing aids. That is a simple fact.

If YOU sign, you are giving the child the opportunity to sign, how does have a CI affect that in the least??

Oh, and a CI doesn't make someone hearing, it gives a DEAF person the ability to access sound.
 

CJB

New Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2009
Messages
2,758
Reaction score
1
If your child is severe-profoundly deaf, the ability to listen and understand speech will not be provided with hearing aids. That is a simple fact.

If YOU sign, you are giving the child the opportunity to sign, how does have a CI affect that in the least??

Oh, and a CI doesn't make someone hearing, it gives a DEAF person the ability to access sound.

Yes but I want to let my child choose for himself if he wants a CI or not.

I can sign to my child and expose her to ASL but that doesn't change the fact that the vast majority of hearing people view CI users as hearing. You and I and many people on this forum might know that a CI doesn't make someone hearing but a lot of people don't know that and will not understand how someone with a CI can have a Deaf identity. And while these forums might be more accepting of CI users, many people in the Deaf community reject CI users, leaving them stuck halfway between the Deaf and hearing worlds.
 

faire_jour

New Member
Joined
Apr 26, 2008
Messages
7,188
Reaction score
3
Yes but I want to let my child choose for himself if he wants a CI or not.

I can sign to my child and expose her to ASL but that doesn't change the fact that the vast majority of hearing people view CI users as hearing. You and I and many people on this forum might know that a CI doesn't make someone hearing but a lot of people don't know that and will not understand how someone with a CI can have a Deaf identity. And while these forums might be more accepting of CI users, many people in the Deaf community reject CI users, leaving them stuck halfway between the Deaf and hearing worlds.

I have never ever met a Deaf person (in real life) who was negative to my child for having a CI.

You see it as stuck between, I see it as having the best of both.

My child will never come to me and say "Why didn't you give me the opportunity..." because I did. I have given her every tool she could possibly need to be successful in the world. You would be closing a door. Why? Because of what someone else may think???
 

somedeafdudefromPNW

Active Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2009
Messages
9,500
Reaction score
1
I have never ever met a Deaf person (in real life) who was negative to my child for having a CI.

You see it as stuck between, I see it as having the best of both.

My child will never come to me and say "Why didn't you give me the opportunity..." because I did. I have given her every tool she could possibly need to be successful in the world. You would be closing a door. Why? Because of what someone else may think???

I have to give this to faire_jour in this case.

CI does not make anyone hearing, however the sheer amount of CI users out there in the new generation that are going through the same struggles as the generations before them means that they will still have a Deaf identity regardless of anyone that might reject them. In about 5, 10, 20 years time, you will see CI become accepted just like hearing aids were.

The only problem with CI that many people believe that a person's "body is [their] temple," and surgery is often seen as an invasive procedure, which is more of a cultural, religious, philosophical or legal reasoning rather than a medical reason.
 

deafdude1

New Member
Joined
Feb 24, 2009
Messages
1,268
Reaction score
0
thank you, been very busy with work and family

I have one friend who has chosen to not wear one of her CI as it causes a vibration. She had it replaced and it is the same after the second surgery. She does just as well with one CI. It does not vibrate unless she wears the speech processor. The majority of my friends have two CIs and love them.

You are welcome! Youll notice since you left, there's been alot of debate on stem cells as well as HAs vs. CI. Does the CI that causes a vibration not work at all? If people do as well with one CI, what's the point of two CI? They can always wear a HA in the other ear and go bimodel! Howcome so many of your friends have two CI if insurance rarely covers a 2nd CI and few can afford the cost of CI out of pocket?
 

faire_jour

New Member
Joined
Apr 26, 2008
Messages
7,188
Reaction score
3
Yes but I want to let my child choose for himself if he wants a CI or not.

I can sign to my child and expose her to ASL but that doesn't change the fact that the vast majority of hearing people view CI users as hearing. You and I and many people on this forum might know that a CI doesn't make someone hearing but a lot of people don't know that and will not understand how someone with a CI can have a Deaf identity. And while these forums might be more accepting of CI users, many people in the Deaf community reject CI users, leaving them stuck halfway between the Deaf and hearing worlds.

Once your child is old enough to choose, you have already made the decision for them. Not giving a CI before window of language learning closes (about age 7 or 8) is closing the door on the ability to listen and understand spoken language easily.*

*In the case of a profoundly deaf child from birth who isn't raised orally
 

deafdude1

New Member
Joined
Feb 24, 2009
Messages
1,268
Reaction score
0
If your child is severe-profoundly deaf, the ability to listen and understand speech will not be provided with hearing aids. That is a simple fact.

Then how do you explain the fact Phi4sius did great with a HA for 25 years? His loss has been severe at frequencies above 250Hz! I know a bunch of severely deaf that do great with HAs. I read that most with "only" a severe loss(less than 90db) do great with HAs and that even up to 100db loss, some people still do fairly good. But even for those that only have partial understanding of speech, lipreading can easily fill in the missing gaps. Then there's sign language(and writing) as another means of communication. I don't sign as im 100% oral and have learned to master lip reading.

In about 5, 10, 20 years time, you will see CI become accepted just like hearing aids were.

My hearing friends and family don't see this as the case once stem cells becomes mainstream.

The only problem with CI that many people believe that a person's "body is [their] temple," and surgery is often seen as an invasive procedure, which is more of a cultural, religious, philosophical or legal reasoning rather than a medical reason.

That's a reason why my family and friends are excited for me to get stem cells but don't believe in CI. Stem cells can be injected in the arm and they migrate to the ear or any body part to repair the damage! Phi4sius knows about this too.
 

CJB

New Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2009
Messages
2,758
Reaction score
1
I have never ever met a Deaf person (in real life) who was negative to my child for having a CI.

You see it as stuck between, I see it as having the best of both.

My child will never come to me and say "Why didn't you give me the opportunity..." because I did. I have given her every tool she could possibly need to be successful in the world. You would be closing a door. Why? Because of what someone else may think???

No, I wouldn't be denying my child the CI because of what others think. I want to let my child choose which doors he wants to open and close. I want my child to choose if she wants to use HA's or the CI, sign language or no sign language. I'm against making that decision for my child.

I'm neither pro-CI nor anti-CI. I'm just anti-choosing my child's hearing status.
 

CJB

New Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2009
Messages
2,758
Reaction score
1
Once your child is old enough to choose, you have already made the decision for them. Not giving a CI before window of language learning closes (about age 7 or 8) is closing the door on the ability to listen and understand spoken language easily.*

*In the case of a profoundly deaf child from birth who isn't raised orally

I would talk to my child about it before the age of 7 or 8. I just don't think I have to get my 18 month old infant implanted. Up until then I would give my child both spoken and signed language so that they could develop language while still in the window for learning language.
 

faire_jour

New Member
Joined
Apr 26, 2008
Messages
7,188
Reaction score
3
Then how do you explain the fact Phi4sius did great with a HA for 25 years? His loss has been severe at frequencies above 250Hz! I know a bunch of severely deaf that do great with HAs. I read that most with "only" a severe loss(less than 90db) do great with HAs and that even up to 100db loss, some people still do fairly good. But even for those that only have partial understanding of speech, lipreading can easily fill in the missing gaps. Then there's sign language(and writing) as another means of communication. I don't sign as im 100% oral and have learned to master lip reading.

Lipreading is easy??? That is news to me!

My hearing friends and family don't see this as the case once stem cells becomes mainstream.

Ignoring another pointless comment.

That's a reason why my family and friends are excited for me to get stem cells but don't believe in CI. Stem cells can be injected in the arm and they migrate to the ear or any body part to repair the damage! Phi4sius knows about this too.

Some people can do ok with hearing aids, but it takes a ton of work. My daughter's SLP put it this way: "With hearing aids, about 15% of kids were able to successfully grow up oral only, 85% were not. With CI's the percentage has been reversed.".
 

deafdude1

New Member
Joined
Feb 24, 2009
Messages
1,268
Reaction score
0
No, I wouldn't be denying my child the CI because of what others think. I want to let my child choose which doors he wants to open and close. I want my child to choose if she wants to use HA's or the CI, sign language or no sign language. I'm against making that decision for my child.

I'm neither pro-CI nor anti-CI. I'm just anti-choosing my child's hearing status.

Same here. Actually id wait till stem cells was available then let him choose between being deaf or being less deaf, between hearing a little with HAs or alot with HAs. If for some reason he doesn't want to hear more, oh well it's his ears and choice. Guess the $30,000 cost will go towards the downpayment on his house. He may feel that stem cells isn't worth the cost and that there's more important things in life than hearing better.

I would talk to my child about it before the age of 7 or 8. I just don't think I have to get my 18 month old infant implanted. Up until then I would give my child both spoken and signed language so that they could develop language while still in the window for learning language.

You know, there's other ways to develop language. There's prelinguals who were born deaf who didn't get a CI till age 40 and they did fine with CI. The only difference is it takes longer to train your brain. If I ever have children, they will be looking at the choice of stem cells, rather than CI as they grow up. Ill be getting stem cells for myself, but the choice would be up to my children once they are old enough to decide. By then, stem cells should be FDA approved. I won't be getting them stem cells experimentally, it's not right to put them at risk. The risks I take are my own as im an adult and can decide.

Some people can do ok with hearing aids, but it takes a ton of work. My daughter's SLP put it this way: "With hearing aids, about 15% of kids were able to successfully grow up oral only, 85% were not. With CI's the percentage has been reversed.".

It also takes a ton of work with CI. I grew up oral only with HAs and my hearing was always worse than Miss Kat's. Many parents do teach their deaf children sign language regardless if they wear HAs or CI. If the children are sent to speech therapy, they can learn to speak clearly and read lips too. The only difference between HA and CI is there's a better chance to understand more speech without lipreading with CI, everything else is equal with proper training and tons of work. My parents put alot of work into me and I am thankful for this.

Lipreading is easy??? That is news to me!

My parents said I actually taught myself to read lips on my own from a very young age. So it comes to me as naturally as hearing comes to you. Those who are late deafened probably won't have such a great ability to read lips and will struggle alot more than me. Hearing people rarely see the need to learn to read lips. It's only when they start going deaf do they learn to read lips. But for them, lipreading is a 2nd language, hearing is their native language. For me, reading lips is my native language and hearing is a 2nd language that ill have to learn once I get stem cells.(but it's the same story for those getting CI today)
 

ref74

New Member
Joined
Aug 6, 2009
Messages
90
Reaction score
0
Sorry, but it is pretty easy to say "if I had hearing impaired children"... If you really have a child with this problem your role of parent is to take decisions for him. Parents MUST decide for their children. And you have to decide for what you think is the best option. Making this means considering carefully all the pros and cons, evaluating the risks and being strong in going over the worries, because every parent would kill himself instead of exposing his child to any risk.
What's the sense of the role if you simply wait they grow up? You avoid responsibilities and the risk of doing something wrong,letting your child to take the risk.
There are so many decisions every mother and father take for their children, think about cultural habit, religion, education, experiences offered. What should they do? Do noting, close the children in a room waiting for them to grow up and when they are old enough ask them if they want to be catholic, protestant or whatever, if they want to go to a technical, scientific, or professional school, if they prefer to be free, or to follow rigid rules while they live in the family? And if any medical decision has to be taken, easy: if you can, just wait until they can understand and let them to decide...
How can you think like that?!?!
The parents have to decide for their children, until they can decide for themselves.
Parents who decide to implant their child simply play their role. They give their child the possibility to develop spoken language more easily (hopefully) and give the child the possibility to choose between spoken language and sign language at the end. In many cases if you decide to not decide, you are deciding anyway. The decision is making your child signing only.
That's OK, parents could decide the want their children to be signing only, there is nothing wrong with that. But it has to be taken in mind that deciding to wait until they can decide for themselves is the opposite of being a parent.


And CBJ, waiting till your son is 6 or 7 and let him decide is a nonsense. A child cannot be really able to make such an important decision at that age, c'mon!
 

somedeafdudefromPNW

Active Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2009
Messages
9,500
Reaction score
1
And CBJ, waiting till your son is 6 or 7 and let him decide is a nonsense. A child cannot be really able to make such an important decision at that age, c'mon!

It's not nonsense to certain people. You have no idea what his cultural background is. Some even retain the old pre-Industrial belief that as soon as the child could walk, they are "adults" capable of making their own decisions.

Certain religious branches believe that once a child turn somewhere between 8 to 13, they should be treated as adults upon the "age of reason" and have complete control over their lives. Of course you will see variations of this anywhere between eight to sixteen.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top