Does being deaf/hoh make you a bad writer?

yjgstahc said:
Are you sure with alot of ppl have first language as ASL?

I thought they are supposed to have first language as English then ASL. It's common sense. I mean how do you learn ASL without real English language? Kinda impossible?
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No, it's fully possible to have ASL as a first language, then learn English as a second language later. ASL and English are two completely different languages. I'll let someone who's more of an expert than I am answer this fully, but ASL is not just a signed version of English; it's a completely different language and doesn't have a lot in common with English in regards to syntax, grammar, and whatnot. See Lily7's post.
 
Wirelessly posted (Blackberry Bold )

yjgstahc said:
Are you sure with alot of ppl have first language as ASL?


I thought they are supposed to have first language as English then ASL. It's common sense. I mean how do you learn ASL without real English language? Kinda impossible?
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What bearing would English have on ASL or vise versa?

ASL and English are completely different languages. They have completely different grammar, structure etc. The only aspect in which there is a cross over is if the person fingerspells an English word (but they could just as easily spell a French, German, Spanish etc word instead).

Many people have ASL as their first language - just like many people might have French, Spanish, German etc as their first language (without knowing English).

Just like it doesn't make sense to say "in order to learn French, first you have to learn English" it equally doesn't make any sense to say "to learn ASL, first you must know English".

They are entirely seperate, distinct and complete languages which have little if any bearing on each other.

The reason ASLers also know English is because ASL is used in USA and English Canada - so naturally we learn use written (sometimes spoken) English as our second language to communicate with non-signers.
 
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I see. That's good point. I like Anij and MintyOreo's opinions. Since ASL stands for American Sign Language. I understand that ones. But did you realize there are also other sign languages? Like BSL (British Sign Language)/FSL (French Sign Language)/KSL (Korean Sign Language)/ etc... I know there are some common sign languages but most of signs don't.

But im trying to make a point for ASL. I know I've seen some ppl sign same word but different ASL way like for example..

ASL (Birthday): You see one hand does like 'favor' on your chin then put onto your chest. That's sign I've seen most of other ppl.

ASL (Birthday): I've seen some ppl doing like one hand holds on left ear or right ear. That's sign for birthday.

That sounds like other ppl learning depend on location of the USA (Like South / North) Or something signs in different way to similar different accents.
 
skunker said:
Does being deaf also affect how you compose and write sentences? I see a lot of bad grammar in this forum and am wondering how deafness plays in that. I am HoH/Deaf myself, but have never seen the level of run-on sentences/incoherent sentence composition like I see here.

I would have thought it would be the opposite: since we can't hear, we tend to read a lot of books to get our information.
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Other people have answered this well, but there are a couple ideas I haven't seen, so here's my two cents.

1. As others have pointed out, you are seeing the writing of people for whom English is a second language. You may notice some native Spanish speakers who learn English master English idioms, syntax, and punctuation quickly and well, and some always continue to have certain 'quirks' in their communication in their non-native language.

In some cases, you are seeing the writing of people who have been handed massive communication challenges when they were denied the right to learn any language at all until long past the usual date of learning a language. This happened when their parents refused to teach them sign language or let them learn it, and often when deafness has gone on undiagnosed for a year or two (or more). There is a critical window for language acquisition. Many who were denied a language of any kind until after they were two or older will always struggle with issues arising from that. Some can overcome even that, but not having a language in which to think for the first five years of life is a handicap imposed from without that can do immeasurable damage to a person.

2. This is the point nobody brought up yet. For some reason, it is amusing to some hearing people to post to these threads and pretend to be deaf people with bad English skills. Two of the posters with the worst English language skills here were recently exposed as frauds.

3. Failures in public education and parenting have together resulted in diminishing returns in literacy levels for hearing students for years. I can't imagine that deaf students would be immune to that.
 
It's an Internet forum. No need to write like you are in a graduate-level English class.

There is a a lot of bad writing on craigslist, such as people who don't know how to spell or use punctuation.
 
Glenn said:
It's an Internet forum. No need to write like you are in a graduate-level English class.

There is a a lot of bad writing on craigslist, such as people who don't know how to spell or use punctuation.
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For craigslist, there are pretty alot scammers anyways.
 
yjgstahc said:
I see. That's good point. I like Anij and MintyOreo's opinions. Since ASL stands for American Sign Language. I understand that ones. But did you realize there are also other sign languages? Like BSL (British Sign Language)/FSL (French Sign Language)/KSL (Korean Sign Language)/ etc... I know there are some common sign languages but most of signs don't.

But im trying to make a point for ASL. I know I've seen some ppl sign same word but different ASL way like for example..

ASL (Birthday): You see one hand does like 'favor' on your chin then put onto your chest. That's sign I've seen most of other ppl.

ASL (Birthday): I've seen some ppl doing like one hand holds on left ear or right ear. That's sign for birthday.

That sounds like other ppl learning depend on location of the USA (Like South / North) Or something signs in different way to similar different accents.
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Yes, there are some regional variations. There are also variations based on age- people in their fifties and older might be more inclined to incorporate some less common initialized signs, carry overs from the use of SEE in school (that's just my experience, which is quite limited).

But this is true for spoken English as well. Down south you call all carbonated beverages coke or 'co-cola.' Some places you say 'pop,' others use the word 'soda,' and some say 'soda-pop.'

A large piece of living room furniture might be called a couch or a sofa, and in some cases a divan.

The mid-day meal is lunch in some places, dinner in others. For lunch you might eat crawdads, crayfish, or mudbugs (or none of the above)- but it's all the same thing.=)
 
rolling7 said:
I have to jump in there and say that grammar rules are only for written languages. Since ASL can not be written, there are no grammar rules for it.
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There are grammar rules for spoken English, too. My children aren't allowed to use the non-word Ain't, nor can they use a double negative in a sentence, and I expect their verb and noun tenses to agree whether they write the or speak them.

Also, they must always put the other person first and use 'I' and 'me' properly- that is
"Me and Bobby is going to the store." WRONG.

"Bobby and I are going to the store." Correct.
 
I used to use "ain't" as a way to antagonize my teachers. :)
 
rolling7 said:
I have to jump in there and say that grammar rules are only for written languages. Since ASL can not be written, there are no grammar rules for it.
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That isn't true.

gram·mar (grmr)
n.
1.
a. The study of how words and their component parts combine to form sentences.
b. The study of structural relationships in language or in a language, sometimes including pronunciation, meaning, and linguistic history.
2.
a. The system of inflections, syntax, and word formation of a language.
b. The system of rules implicit in a language, viewed as a mechanism for generating all sentences possible in that language.
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A language does not have to be written to have rules and structure.
 
Glenn said:
I used to use "ain't" as a way to antagonize my teachers. :)
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So did I. But now I am the mom and the teacher.:lol:

I was a rotten brat. My kids wonder why it is that I almost always knew what they were planning and was able to nip it in the bud.
 
Lily7 said:
A lot of people for whom ASL is a first language, type the way they sign. ASL grammar is different from English grammar. When writing the way they sign, word order is different, there is no punctuation (since punctuation in ASL is body language and facial expressions), and the little words like "is, are, to" are dropped. So when they "type in ASL", it looks like horrible English grammar, but it's not.
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I did not know that. Thank you so much for explaining it to me. Now it makes sense.
 
i remember i asked this question and i got banned. I later learned more about ASL and how it has a different sentence structure then English literature. So people who mainly use asl think about english differently or something. I forget how it workss though. Its not about how you hear. Its about how your brain processes the information and what language u use mainly.


PS FOR ALL YOU MEMBERS BLABBING ABOUT HOW EVERYONE CANT SPELL. GET IT IN YOUR HEADS THE PERSON IS NOT TALKING ABOUT THE CORRECT SPELLING OF WORDS BUT RATHER SENTENCE STRUCTURE. doofuses
 
My family is all hearing. They went to hearing schools and graduates. Have good jobs and everything. However, their written english sucks. Lots. Of. Hearing people are the same and are often scared to write to me because of this. Writing well is a skill. If you don't use it you lose it
 
lucas said:
So people who mainly use asl think about english differently or something. I forget how it workss though.
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Are you surprised when a native speaker of, say, Russian doesn't speak English completely like a native? Then you shouldn't be surprised when a native ASL signer might not write English like a native, either. ASL is a separate language. Don't let the fact that it's a signed language instead of an oral language distract you.

Note that this doesn't mean all ASL signers are doomed to have "bad English." As one can see from this forum, there are plenty of ASL signers who have learned English very well, some indistinguishably from a native hearing English speaker. It's the same as our hypothetical Russian speaker; some Russians do learn English extremely well and sound fluent/native.

lucas said:
PS FOR ALL YOU MEMBERS BLABBING ABOUT HOW EVERYONE CANT SPELL. GET IT IN YOUR HEADS THE PERSON IS NOT TALKING ABOUT THE CORRECT SPELLING OF WORDS BUT RATHER SENTENCE STRUCTURE. doofuses
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If you don't want to get banned again, you might consider toning down things like this... (Just a thought, I am not a moderator, YMMV...)
 
i just find it irritating. Ive seen the issue time and time again on this forum where people ignore the main post and start ranting about something other then what the person had intended to talk about. it kinda goes like this 90 percent of the time. "why is the apple green" someone responds. "apples can be red too but ur a terrible person because u must not like green apples." See how stupid that sounds? just my two cents

And yes arthaey i realize that. But the question was do hearing impaired people have terrible sentence structure. Not do people of all different languages have terrible sentence structure. Hence why i just made the distinction between english and asl users. sorry for any confusion
 
lucas said:
i just find it irritating. Ive seen the issue time and time again on this forum where people ignore the main post and start ranting about something other then what the person had intended to talk about. it kinda goes like this 90 percent of the time. "why is the apple green" someone responds. "apples can be red too but ur a terrible person because u must not like green apples." See how stupid that sounds? just my two cents

And yes arthaey i realize that. But the question was do hearing impaired people have terrible sentence structure. Not do people of all different languages have terrible sentence structure. Hence why i just made the distinction between english and asl users. sorry for any confusion
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Ur a terrible person because you don't know "hearing impaired" is an insult.
U must not see this was about poor writing...

Sorry for ur confusion.

Also that u think text speak is ok.
 
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