DNA databases

lsfoster

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http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/19/us/19DNA.html?_r=1&ref=todayspaper

So what do people think? Is it violating someone's rights to put their DNA in a database whether they've been convicted of something or not? Personally, I agree with the guy quoted at the end of the paper. If you're not planning on committing a crime, why does it matter? And if you are, I don't think that saying "But if I want to break the law someday, they'd be able to find me", is necessarily the best way to defend your "rights"...

Thoughts?
 
I do not support it :nono:
 
Across the nation some state-mandated newborn screening programs have seen hospitals, birthing centers and midwives drawing blood from each newborn baby's heel without parental consent. The purpose has been to test infants for a number of birth defects.
According to the Austin American-Statesman, in 2002 the Texas state health department began keeping the blood samples indefinitely for medical research. Parental consent is not required by law and hospitals do not typically try to obtain consent from parents. If parents happen to know about this practice in advance they can only opt out for religious purposes. .... DNA Testing Without Parental Consent? - Digital Journal: Your News Network
 
They already do it especially with tracking of diseases that humans carry.

yes those with HIV/AIDS but this thread is about criminals and alleged criminals
 
Yet the individuals with HIV/AIDS aren't criminals.....

yes and I'm telling you that this thread is not about HIV/AIDS. You can make another thread about it. :cool2:
 
yes and I'm telling you that this thread is not about HIV/AIDS. You can make another thread about it. :cool2:

No--this thread is about DNA databases and since we already collect DNA from individuals with terminal diseases--why should there be a fuss over it to begin with?
 
yes and I'm telling you that this thread is not about HIV/AIDS. You can make another thread about it. :cool2:

As long as they have your blood, they have your DNA. So they already have the information in a data base. The tracking of individuals through medical data bases is already being done, even when we are not talking about criminals.
 
As long as they have your blood, they have your DNA. So they already have the information in a data base. The tracking of individuals through medical data bases is already being done, even when we are not talking about criminals.

Exactly. Why is there a fuss about it?
 
They already do it especially with tracking of diseases that humans carry.

I don't know, but my DNA is my personal privacy. It belong to me, not the gov't. What if they kept it to trace deaf people? don't people remember our constitution? when it will stop? I don't mind doctors and such getting access to my DNA, because it would be between me, the lab, and my doctor .And none of my information will go outside of that unless I request it. but What bothers me is the gov't since they can put us to jail and control our life.
 
No--this thread is about DNA databases and since we already collect DNA from individuals with terminal diseases--why should there be a fuss over it to begin with?

reread the OP's article

F.B.I. and States Vastly Expand DNA Databases
Law enforcement officials are vastly expanding their collection of DNA to include millions more people who have been arrested or detained but not yet convicted. The move, intended to help solve more crimes, is raising concerns about the privacy of petty offenders and people who are presumed innocent.

Until now, the federal government genetically tracked only convicts. But starting this month, the Federal Bureau of Investigation will join 15 states that collect DNA samples from those awaiting trial and will collect DNA from detained immigrants — the vanguard of a growing class of genetic registrants.

The F.B.I., with a DNA database of 6.7 million profiles, expects to accelerate its growth rate from 80,000 new entries a year to 1.2 million by 2012 — a 15-fold increase. F.B.I. officials say they expect DNA processing backlogs — which now stand at more than 500,000 cases — to increase.

Law enforcement officials say that expanding the DNA databanks to include legally innocent people will help solve more violent crimes. They point out that DNA has helped convict thousands of criminals and has exonerated more than 200 wrongfully convicted people.

But criminal justice experts cite Fourth Amendment privacy concerns and worry that the nation is becoming a genetic surveillance society.

“DNA databases were built initially to deal with violent sexual crimes and homicides — a very limited number of crimes,” said Harry Levine, a professor of sociology at City University of New York who studies policing trends. “Over time more and more crimes of decreasing severity have been added to the database. Cops and prosecutors like it because it gives everybody more information and creates a new suspect pool.”

Courts have generally upheld laws authorizing compulsory collection of DNA from convicts and ex-convicts under supervised release, on the grounds that criminal acts diminish privacy rights.

DNA extraction upon arrest potentially erodes that argument, a recent Congressional study found. “Courts have not fully considered legal implications of recent extensions of DNA-collection to people whom the government has arrested but not tried or convicted,” the report said.

Minors are required to provide DNA samples in 35 states upon conviction, and in some states upon arrest. Three juvenile suspects in November filed the only current constitutional challenge against taking DNA at the time of arrest. The judge temporarily stopped DNA collection from the three youths, and the case is continuing.

Sixteen states now take DNA from some who have been found guilty of misdemeanors. As more police agencies take DNA for a greater variety of lesser and suspected crimes, civil rights advocates say the government’s power is becoming too broadly applied. “What we object to — and what the Constitution prohibits — is the indiscriminate taking of DNA for things like writing an insufficient funds check, shoplifting, drug convictions,” said Michael Risher, a lawyer for the American Civil Liberties Union.

This year, California began taking DNA upon arrest and expects to nearly double the growth rate of its database, to 390,000 profiles a year from 200,000.

One of those was Brian Roberts, 29, who was awaiting trial for methamphetamine possession. Inside the Twin Towers Correctional Facility in Los Angeles last month, Mr. Roberts let a sheriff’s deputy swab the inside of his cheek.

Mr. Roberts’s DNA will be translated into a numerical sequence at the F.B.I.’s DNA database, the largest in the world.

The system will search for matches between Mr. Roberts’s DNA and other profiles every Monday, from now into the indeterminate future — until one day, perhaps decades hence, Mr. Roberts might leave a drop of blood or semen at some crime scene.

Law enforcement officials say that DNA extraction upon arrest is no different than fingerprinting at routine bookings and that states purge profiles after people are cleared of suspicion. In practice, defense lawyers say this is a laborious process that often involves a court order. (The F.B.I. says it has never received a request to purge a profile from its database.)

When DNA is taken in error, expunging a profile can be just as difficult. In Pennsylvania, Ellyn Sapper, a Philadelphia public defender, has spent weeks trying to expunge the profile taken erroneously of a 14-year-old boy guilty of assault and bicycle theft. “I’m going to have to get a judge’s order to make sure that all references to his DNA are gone,” she said.

The police say that the potential hazards of genetic surveillance are worth it because it solves crimes and because DNA is more accurate than other physical evidence. “I’ve watched women go from mug-book to mug-book looking for the man who raped her,” said Mitch Morrissey, the Denver district attorney and an advocate for more expansive DNA sampling. “It saves women’s lives.”

Mr. Morrissey pointed to Britain, which has fewer privacy protections than the United States and has been taking DNA upon arrest for years. It has a population of 61 million — and 4.5 million DNA profiles. “About 8 percent of the people commit about 70 percent of your crimes, so if you can get the majority of that community, you don’t have to do more than that,” he said.

In the United States, 8 percent of the population would be roughly 24 million people.

Britain may provide a window into America’s genetic surveillance future: As of March 2008, 857,000 people in the British database, or about one-fifth, have no current criminal record. In December, the European Court of Human Rights ruled that Britain violated international law by collecting DNA profiles from innocent people, including children as young as 10.

Critics are also disturbed by the demographics of DNA databases. Again Britain is instructive. According to a House of Commons report, 27 percent of black people and 42 percent of black males are genetically registered, compared with 6 percent of white people.

As in Britain, expanding genetic sampling in the United States could exacerbate racial disparities in the criminal justice system, according to Hank Greely, a Stanford University Law School professor who studies the intersection of genetics, policing and race. Mr. Greely estimated that African-Americans, who are about 12 percent of the national population, make up 40 percent of the DNA profiles in the federal database, reflective of their prison population. He also expects Latinos, who are about 13 percent of the population and committed 40 percent of last year’s federal offenses — nearly half of them immigration crimes — to dominate DNA databases.

Enforcement officials contend that DNA is blind to race. Federal profiles include little more information than the DNA sequence and the referring police agency. Subjects’ names are usually kept by investigators.

Rock Harmon, a former prosecutor for Alameda County, Calif., and an adviser to crime laboratories, said DNA demographics reflected the criminal population. Even if an innocent man’s DNA was included in a genetic database, he said, it would come to nothing without a crime scene sample to match it. “If you haven’t done anything wrong, you have nothing to fear,” he said.

This article has been revised to reflect the following correction:

Correction: April 26, 2009
An article last Sunday about a vast expansion of the collection of DNA by law enforcement officials misstated the expected rate of the increase of growth in the F.B.I.’s DNA database. The increase to 1.2 million new entries by 2012 from 80,000 would be a 15-fold increase, not a 17-fold increase. And an accompanying map showing states that require DNA samples from all convicted felonsomitted one state. Pennsylvania also requires the samples.
 
As long as they have your blood, they have your DNA. So they already have the information in a data base. The tracking of individuals through medical data bases is already being done, even when we are not talking about criminals.

right. that's old news. again - this thread is about criminals and alleged criminals.
 
As long as you don't do anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about. :)
 
Wow, they're talking about the same thing here in the UK. I'm not sure what to make of it. It seems like it could be used for good, but it could also easily be abused.

It seems as though the gov'ts propose things like keeping people's DNA, or as in England, Every phone call, email or website visit 'to be monitored' - Telegraph - it seems as though it's "for our protection", in the UK, everyone's websites visited and phone calls and emails will be monitored "because of terrorism" - but it seems unfair..

I think for criminals who have commited more serious crimes, sure thing - assault, rape, murder, theft, etc - they should have their DNA put on record in case they offend again... but if it's for minor things like getting arrested at a demonstration, not having your driver's licence on you, etc, then it's a bit too over the top. I think for those who have not been convicted for a crime, they should have it temporarily until they have been cleared or convicted, but it should not be kept if they have been cleared.

Gah, I don't know. :D It could easily be abused, that's why I guess I'm going to have to say it needs to be treated very, very carefully.
 
Wow, they're talking about the same thing here in the UK. I'm not sure what to make of it. It seems like it could be used for good, but it could also easily be abused.

It seems as though the gov'ts propose things like keeping people's DNA, or as in England, Every phone call, email or website visit 'to be monitored' - Telegraph - it seems as though it's "for our protection", in the UK, everyone's websites visited and phone calls and emails will be monitored "because of terrorism" - but it seems unfair..

I think for criminals who have commited more serious crimes, sure thing - assault, rape, murder, theft, etc - they should have their DNA put on record in case they offend again... but if it's for minor things like getting arrested at a demonstration, not having your driver's licence on you, etc, then it's a bit too over the top. I think for those who have not been convicted for a crime, they should have it temporarily until they have been cleared or convicted, but it should not be kept if they have been cleared.

Gah, I don't know. :D It could easily be abused, that's why I guess I'm going to have to say it needs to be treated very, very carefully.

I'm curious, how do you think it would be abused? I mean, the first thing that came to mind for me is shows like CSI, SVU, all of those, where they collect DNA from a crime scene, and have a suspect in like, a day. I mean, if you commit a crime and they can find you because your DNA is in their system, then it could be hugely helpful to stopping crimes and catching the people who commit them. It might also help deter crime if someone knows that their DNA is in a database, and that they will more likely get caught if they do commit a crime.

But I'm interested in how people think it would be abused. I think that first hearing about it, it does sort of strike a nerve. For me, especially with all the invasion of privacy that was so common under Bush. But thinking about it, I'm curious what people are afraid would happen.
 
CSI based shows generally have the lab portion of results, suspect identifying done correctly except there's one chief thing missing at the moment that isn't show in the shows. Those shows typically give you the idea that its done in a matter of a few hours and by the time the day's over, they've got their suspect.

In the reality version, the lab part isn't that much different. Forensic labs do the same thing in which are processing and sampling the evidence, such as running gel electrophoresis tests on results to compare them between suspects (and victims). The reasoning and criminalistic "philosophizing" part, that is just a load of drama and blah to keep the viewers on their toes. However they share the thing in common, which is looking for the baddie.

The key difference between reality and TV is that there is a whole other load of protocol in real life. They have to request permission after permission for every lab test, document and sign their findings, then move onto the next part. It can take more than a day, weeks or even months. We are also bound to make human error somewhere along the line y'know.

Probably once this technology is perfected, things will actually get done quicker in the long run.


But on topic regarding DNA databases of criminals. This just rings my Minority Report bell, as I can picture this as the same thing. Not so much the department of precrime, but the way data is utilized and how they can track people down. It will be entirely sophisticated, but little by little your life will turn into a digital folder only able to be looked at by trusted officials.
"Hi, welcome to the mall Mr. Anderton! How was your last GAP sweater purchase that you bought on 04/19/2018?"
And of course, within those trusted officials you also have corruption; which will also sell it on the blackmarket or stuff like that. End of dramatized version of the future.


It is still hard to anticipate all future developments as we are not fully sure of all the technology that is going to be coming out.. The common DNA offender database in UK uses the STR (Short Tandem Repeat) loci. They now have around 2-3million DNA profiles from suspects and offenders since 1995-2004, onhand.

STR means like for example, a strand of GTGGTC repeated throughout the sample somewhere and they just search for the matching strands, ciphering the total results in the end to compare with another sample.

The future methods planned or in works on suggesting the prime method have on now been looking at SNP (Single Nucleotide Polymorphism) where they scan for the first difference in the split between DNAs.
IE:
Person 1: ATGCTGTTCAGTGCTTA
Person 2: ATGCTGTTCTGTGCTTA

Have you seen some of the computing servers that they use for modern dna stuff? Some for algorithm and calculations, others for storage. One thing is that they're HUUGE.
Imagine rows after rows of these sitting in some office somewhere waiting to be hacked by some daring people.
29ep4cp.jpg


I stand kinda mixed on it.
I can see it helping a ton for law enforcement and "the greater good" wise.
On a crime level, it's acceptable to me since it's for bad guys. There were also likely be an error of human mistake somewhere since this tech isn't just perfect yet.
On the future potential people-people level, privacy is utterly destroyed once this method gets released to the common population and is documented for whatever you do. Companies know your GPA, your education, how much you make, what's your illnesses (if you have any), and so on.
That seems like an :ugh: to me.
But that's really because I'm somewhat a private person on what I do at some parts. Nothing illegal, of course.
 
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