Deaf Like Me

Lillys dad

Lillys dad

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I am currently reading the book "Deaf Like Me". Its a great book! The thing I found shocking is the lack of understanding when considering sign language!
Looking back on my life as a hearing person, I dont think I ever encountered anyone with the amount of bias and negativity that was discussed in the book when it comes to sign language as a form of communication.
Honestly, my daughter was the first deaf person I had ever had any real interaction with. Before that, I had handled a couple of incidents with deaf people (being a cop). I had never been around anyone that signed.
I never knew the amount of negativity that was associated with sign language. I (like every other hearing person i know) just thought that sign was a way for deaf people to talk because they cannot hear.
When I first began checking out a few of the deaf message boards, I could not understand why people were so outspoken about deaf people not being "dumb or stupid". After all, the way some one communicates has nothing to with with that persons intelligence. If it were, the language spoken in the country you came from would dictate how intelligent you were.
As I continued reading the book, I had to keep reminding myself that the story took place through the mid to late sixties. This was also the same time period as the civil rights protests and things like that. Before that time in history, there were many narrow minded people and idiots filled with pre-concieved notions about everyone and everything.
some of the comments I have read in this book, are the same as some of the comments I have heard used by some people on this message board when defending sign language but from the opposite side of the argument. "Sign language is not a real language" vs. "sign is a real language". Deaf people are dumb" vs. "deaf people are as smart as anyone else", and so on. Before jumping to conclusions and getting upset, I am of the same opinion as everyone else here, deaf people are just as smart as everyone else, and sign language is a real language.
I cannot help but think that all of the negative stereotypes associated with the deaf that I have heard are from the "older" crowd. Is this true?
As I said earlier, I have never heard any of these stereotypes before becoming involved with the deaf community. Could it be that over the last 40 years, society as a whole have become more aware of the fact that deaf people are just like everyone else? Over the last 40 years, most of society haev accepted the fact that black people are the same as white people and so on.
Im sorry this is so drawn out. I guess I am just curious about what people think here concerning the bias towards the deaf community. So do you think the hearing world had become more accepting of sign language over the last 40 years? Or do I (and every other person I know) look at issues like these differently than most hearing people?
 
Lillys dad said:
............I cannot help but think that all of the negative stereotypes associated with the deaf that I have heard are from the "older" crowd. Is this true?....
Click to expand...
It certainly was...
Read "Mask of Benevolance" by Harlan Lane.
In the beginning he shows the way professional people (doctors) write about their deaf patients.. He compares it with the way missionairies described the natives... and it's not good.
And this was from professionals !!!

If you like "deaf like us" you will really like "Deafening" by Frances Itani - 2003

See here (and updated here)for more books - and feel really free to add your books and films!
 
That is horrible that deaf people were treated in that manner simply because of teh form of communication they use(d). As I said in the earlier post, I have never encountered a person with this outlook towards sign language or the stereotype about people that sign. Keep in mind that I was born in the early 70s and grew up in the 80s. Times have changed alot since the 60s. People have opended thier minds to things that are different than what they know. Have you (or anyone) seen this attitude in the last 10-20 years? The only time I have encountered anything negative about the fact that my daughter is deaf was when my wife and I ran into a very old man that didn't know any better. He said hi to my daughter while my wife was holding her. Lilly looked back at him with a blank expression. He saw the hearing aids (before her CI surgery). He looked at her, then my wife and said "Whats wrong with her? Is she retarded?" My first instinct was to want to hit this guy for making such a rude/ingorant comment about my daughter. Then I realized that he was well into his 80s and could probably not comprehend the whole idea of a child needing hearing aids due to the fact she was born deaf.

After taking into consideration the era that the old man came from, it made it a little easier to realize why he was so ignorant.

Now days there are so many people that are aware of sooo many different disabilities and the advances of science/ medicine, most people look at being deaf as not really big deal. I think one of the things that have help a great deal in opening peoples minds about deaf issues (at least when dealing with children) is the fact that most states in the U.S. require new borns to have a hearing test before they are released from the hospital. From the moment you hold your newborn baby, you begin to think about the hearing test, and wonder if your child was born with a hearing problem. From that point on, the parents realize the reality of deafness. Most parents I have encountered are actually quite interested in sign language, and are very interested in my daughters progress and equiptment she has.


I will have to check out that book when I have time. I was also told to check out a book called "the silent garden"
 
I'm not surprised to hear about how the deaf community was treated. I remember reading somewhere, I forgot where(sorry everyone) that most deaf people were put in mental instutuions or asylums along with handicapped people because society didn't want to have that impression that there were people who had handicaps. It was considered a bad example of society at the time:rl:

Today, people are more accepting of deafness as a whole. But there are still people who are a bit narrow minded about deafness and deaf culture. It sucks but that is the way it is.

But all you can do is educate those naive people. I do it a lot with people who've never met a deaf person. A good example is one of the girls I have met who's husband worked with my boyfriend. She's never met a deaf person and was shocked to learn that I could drive. She was very apologetic about her naivity, which i appregicated. And I've explained some of the finer points of deafness and my life to her. She understands that deaf people are normal.

So teaching people how we live our lives is the best way to show them that deaf people are not what they percieve us to be.
 
Cloggy said:
In the beginning he shows the way professional people (doctors) write about their deaf patients.. He compares it with the way missionairies described the natives... and it's not good.
And this was from professionals !!!
Click to expand...

This is called condescension.

Have you ever observed that many more young children are being taught to appreciate sign language in schools nowadays? They are taught to fingerspell the abc's, and some remember how to fingerspell even 10 years after they last learned it. The values were instilled into them, but not the older generation, so it is a strong possibility that some people of the older generation still cling on to some of their harsh prejudices and attitudes.

Let's look at this from a philosopher's way of thinking. Albert Einstein had several very good quotes:
1. "Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age 18."
2. ""Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are even incapable of forming such opinions."

In cultural anthropology, there is a word called ethnocentrism. Definition:"a tendency to view alien groups or cultures from the perspective of one's own." What most people do not realize is how easily the brain can be programmed. We believe what we are programmed to believe. Programming creates beliefs. Beliefs then create attitudes, and attitudes create feelings, then feelings determine actions.

This explains from a sociological perspective why the older generation does not see things as younger generations do. If people are not receptive to other cultures, then they are trapped by ethnocentrism and not thinking outside the box.
 
Yeah, it's a good book.

I hate it when people tell me that being ASL Deaf causes illiteracy. It's been my personal xp that mastery of English will takes time but many Deaf - if not all - do catch up eventually.

To me that's like saying Spanish causes illiteracy in native Spanish speakers.

I hated it when people treated my ex-boyfriend as retarded because his speech skills are non existiant. His English skills are better than my own. I don't say that for most people.

I've had members of my own family tell me in a moment of anger that people thought I was retarded.

When I hang around hearing too long I start to question my own intellegince.

I remember my roomate thought she was mentally retarded because that's how others treated her. It was clear to my friend and I that she wasn't retarded and was in fact quite intellegent and we tried to reassure her that she was intellegent.

I think it's awsome that there's ASL poetry and I actually prefer it to English poetry - never mind the fact that my ASL is as bad as Winston Churchill's French. :P His French wasn't exactly English and it wasn't French either.
 
Well, there are still a good amount of bias toward the deaf today in the society. It's true that people's views did change for the better in comparison to the past, though there are still a good amount of it floating around.

Personally, I think the worst type of person is a self-hating deaf person. I've met some in person... and oh boy... do they have such a nasty perception on deafness and the deaf people.
 
Cloggy said:
Actually, I am trying to accomplish that in other threads... without much success...
Click to expand...
Changing people's beliefs is quite hard to do, but if you could PM me the threads I'd like to go look. Quick bio on myself: I was born hearing, 100% deaf by 2 years old, CI at 3 yrs old, CI again at 16 years old, last CI training at 18 years old, and now I am 26 without CI training in a long time because my parents did not look at how it would affect me or long-term constant training. The CI was not only my dad's idea but an agreement between people of what could be done to help "fix" me. I bring this up because I know you and Lilly's dad both are hearing, and Lilly's dad has a daughter with a CI. Hearing people have treated me with utmost cruelty in the past, and I could have oppressed the entire hearing population based on patterns of ignorance, neglect, and abuse in some cases but decided against it. Instead, I separated myself from the hearing world completely and got into the deaf world, for a given time. Then I began to read books on cultures, psychology, history, historical world leaders communication tactics, plus books on deaf culture, business, negotiating, and persuading. Hearing and deaf people, to me, are really no different--we are fundamentally human beings, and even if there is prejudice on either side, I know that deep inside, we all have the capability for change, for better or worse. If people saw things this way, and watched carefully their own actions, the world would be a very different place. Anyway, sorry to go off topic for a little :D
 
I'm glad you found yourself reading that book "Deaf like me" It is indeed a good book that shows how hearing parents goes through when a deaf child is born. My dad had read that book also and that is why I learned on lip-reading, speech, and learned ASL, SEE also. My dad did took sign language classes, learned a great amount of signs then he stopped using signs. :(
 
Yes indeedy Lilysdad, The Silent Garden is wicked good. I strongly reccomend it. VERY nonbiased. I really think it's THE book that ALL parents of dhh kids should read, when they first find out their kid is dhh.
 
Cloggy said:
Me too...
Click to expand...

Maybe I was unclear but I have nothing against you or Lilly's dad. I just wanted to share the fact that I have a CI. I am glad that you and Lilly's Dad have come here to seek support for your daughters.
 
Keep in mind that I was born in the early 70s and grew up in the 80s. Times have changed alot since the 60s. People have opended thier minds to things that are different than what they know. Have you (or anyone) seen this attitude in the last 10-20 years?
Click to expand...
Actually Lilisdad, I HAVE noticed that younger parents tend to be more open to the idear of Sign for their dhh kids. They grew up with exposure to Sign as something wicked cool, and may even have been mainstreamed with dhh kids. That way they know about the lives of real live dhh kids. Like I've noticed that a lot of the parents who chose pure Oralism (like very audist Auditory verbal style oralism, NOT parents who want their kids to develop oral skills) really almost don't know that just b/c a kid is dhh, it doesn't mean that they'll have a radically different experiance growing up. Like it does seem like a lot of the pure oral parents are still grieving that their dhh kid isn't "normal"....It does seem that quite a few of them chose oralism b/c it doesn't have the "stigma" of being special needs, the way Cued Speech, ASL, SEE, and even speechreading do.
You don't believe me? Look at the advertisments for auditory verbal programs in Volta magazine. Notice that they REALLY REALLY push the fact that A-V programs aren't "special needs"........
 
I have never heard of the Volta magazine until I read Deaf Like Me.
There does seem to be a conncetion between parents roughly my age, and the open minds. I have had several people older than me tell me that it is sooo sad that my daughter is deaf. At first, that attitude used to piss me off. Now I realize its just the era they were raised in. Younger people realize that its no big deal. In fact, I have been told by a few parents that it is a blessing in disguise. They look at it as something that brings my family closer together, when I tell them about the differences between most families, and the house hold of most families with a deaf child. They are almost jealous when they realize all the time we spend together doing fun things (speech therapy in disguise)! Family outings are some of the best times I have. They are fun and educational for the whole family. Trips to the science center, zoo, transportation museum, and so on.
 
Lillys dad said:
I am currently reading the book "Deaf Like Me". Its a great book! The thing I found shocking is the lack of understanding when considering sign language!
Looking back on my life as a hearing person, I dont think I ever encountered anyone with the amount of bias and negativity that was discussed in the book when it comes to sign language as a form of communication.
Honestly, my daughter was the first deaf person I had ever had any real interaction with. Before that, I had handled a couple of incidents with deaf people (being a cop). I had never been around anyone that signed.
I never knew the amount of negativity that was associated with sign language. I (like every other hearing person i know) just thought that sign was a way for deaf people to talk because they cannot hear.
When I first began checking out a few of the deaf message boards, I could not understand why people were so outspoken about deaf people not being "dumb or stupid". After all, the way some one communicates has nothing to with with that persons intelligence. If it were, the language spoken in the country you came from would dictate how intelligent you were.
As I continued reading the book, I had to keep reminding myself that the story took place through the mid to late sixties. This was also the same time period as the civil rights protests and things like that. Before that time in history, there were many narrow minded people and idiots filled with pre-concieved notions about everyone and everything.
some of the comments I have read in this book, are the same as some of the comments I have heard used by some people on this message board when defending sign language but from the opposite side of the argument. "Sign language is not a real language" vs. "sign is a real language". Deaf people are dumb" vs. "deaf people are as smart as anyone else", and so on. Before jumping to conclusions and getting upset, I am of the same opinion as everyone else here, deaf people are just as smart as everyone else, and sign language is a real language.
I cannot help but think that all of the negative stereotypes associated with the deaf that I have heard are from the "older" crowd. Is this true?
As I said earlier, I have never heard any of these stereotypes before becoming involved with the deaf community. Could it be that over the last 40 years, society as a whole have become more aware of the fact that deaf people are just like everyone else? Over the last 40 years, most of society haev accepted the fact that black people are the same as white people and so on.
Im sorry this is so drawn out. I guess I am just curious about what people think here concerning the bias towards the deaf community. So do you think the hearing world had become more accepting of sign language over the last 40 years? Or do I (and every other person I know) look at issues like these differently than most hearing people?
Click to expand...

My son was the first contact I had as well. The very same book had a HUGE influence on my decision to make the Deaf community a part of both our lives.
I encountered much of the same attittudes the Spradley's encountered.
 
Cloggy said:
It certainly was...
Read "Mask of Benevolance" by Harlan Lane.
In the beginning he shows the way professional people (doctors) write about their deaf patients.. He compares it with the way missionairies described the natives... and it's not good.
And this was from professionals !!!

If you like "deaf like us" you will really like "Deafening" by Frances Itani - 2003

See here (and updated here)for more books - and feel really free to add your books and films!
Click to expand...

"When the Mind Hears" is another excellent Lane book.
 
deafdyke said:
Actually Lilisdad, I HAVE noticed that younger parents tend to be more open to the idear of Sign for their dhh kids. They grew up with exposure to Sign as something wicked cool, and may even have been mainstreamed with dhh kids. That way they know about the lives of real live dhh kids. Like I've noticed that a lot of the parents who chose pure Oralism (like very audist Auditory verbal style oralism, NOT parents who want their kids to develop oral skills) really almost don't know that just b/c a kid is dhh, it doesn't mean that they'll have a radically different experiance growing up. Like it does seem like a lot of the pure oral parents are still grieving that their dhh kid isn't "normal"....It does seem that quite a few of them chose oralism b/c it doesn't have the "stigma" of being special needs, the way Cued Speech, ASL, SEE, and even speechreading do.
You don't believe me? Look at the advertisments for auditory verbal programs in Volta magazine. Notice that they REALLY REALLY push the fact that A-V programs aren't "special needs"........
Click to expand...

So true, dd, so sad but true!
 
Lilly's Dad...you are explaining one of the reasons why I enjoy it here at AD. I hear different stereotypes all the time and am quick to correct them when they come up. Just yesterday, I had an officer ask me 'How can deaf people drive cars....they can't hear horns or sirens'. I wanted to slap the guy, but quickly realized that he is from another generation as myself and has the attitude of some of those that you mentioned. In addition to your comments, there are a few threads here at AD about stereotypes that are not true. Frankly, I don't even understand how these stereotypes ever came into play but again, it could be a generational thing.
 
I don't think things have changed as much as you think. Parents in your generation and younger often feel similar to their parents but in different ways. If you used ASL they thought you were dumb, today many still think that. Witness many of the posts here at AD. Look at how many parents think that implanting a CI in a baby is going to make them better people than those who are not implanted. (I'm not againsdt the CI, just the attitude that they often exhibit). Here on AD if you support ASL many call you an extremist. It goes on and on. The attituddes are the same, they just manifest in different ways now.
 
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