Considering implant for your child

Crickets

New Member
Sure, but to error on the side of caution is the better bet, when it comes to drilling holes into.babies heads...well for me anyway...
What other product are we implanting in babies on a mass scale using the above logic?
Is that really the pitch to parents?"we dont have data either way"
The first implants into babies were done in france against medical opposition by leading surgeons, its important to get a handle of the ideology that drives it, obviously it had no data to back the cliams up, and still hardly doesnt regarding the shower of lavish oppurtunities that awaits an implanted baby if and only if the baby is implanted..now 25 years on some data will.exist,but when implants were first pushed none did.
Its interesting because the ci industry resembles big pharma in every way, how it markets, and manufactures needs to be purchased so on, and im sure big pharma has its adherents too.
The big idea and paradigm shift big pharma brought to advertising was the idea not to market the product alone. but instead to market the illness. The idea was advertising to product wasnt generating the return....if you market the symptoms...the illness, people will start to actually see them..and thus want the product, regardless if they truly need it or not. its a cheap parlour trick in advertising ci also uses, thus the entire idea of fixing, and ignoring already present solutions so on.
To bring this back
Its almost absurd one would justify an implant by stating we have no data either way.
Unless thats a sandard now in medical science
I wonder

There are never going to be guarantees with implants, nor probably agreement about whether they're appropriate. All parents don't agree on immunizations or many other decisions regarding health. Most parents just try to give their kids the best chance of success as they see it but that's going to mean different things to every parent. Just as sending a child to an expensive school is no guarantee they'll get into Harvard, implants don't guarantee that a child will be more successful, but nothing else will either. That isn't going to stop parents from spending money in the hope it will improve their children's odds to have a better life.

Unless implants are shown to not be effective for any child, or to be very dangerous, why would parents not consider them just as they do other things? Kids have their tonsils out and other medical procedures even with a slight risk of death or complications, kids climb trees and skateboard and do all kinds of things more risky than getting implanted.

Some parents are going to decide to have their children implanted and that's not likely to change as long as at least some children benefit from them and as long as their children are eligible. No choices a parent makes come with a guarantee.
 

HOH-ME

Member
As a deaf adult who now has CI's, get your deaf baby to the CI clinic as fast as you can. Life is SOOOOOO much better with sound, speech understanding and music. I've been on both sides, hearing is FAR better than not!!
 

Nic

Member
Right, and when many start telling of the deblitating migrains and other negative ramifications expect it to be dismissed and scoffed at, as is the usual.
The thread is new,
The discussion certainly isnt,
Is the site of the op as questionable as ci company sites, pushing A product to sell?
Maybe, though the op site isnt pushing a product to sell you, it does have a position and stand on the issue
Personally ive known first hand more early implanted that have had drastic negative effects from them then havnt. Im not stating non are out there, just my experience..in person not online to be clear.
Anyway
Im suprised to see this site still up,thought it was long gone...good to see it
I wouldn't trust information from the CI industry anymore than I'd trust information from that site. They both have clear goals and their opinion on the matter is out for display prior to reading anything.

Research can and does happen in an unbiased way. Research Universities are great at it. Then with enough independent studies by different research universities, clear trends are visible.
 

soutthpaw

Active Member
As a deaf adult who now has CI's, get your deaf baby to the CI clinic as fast as you can. Life is SOOOOOO much better with sound, speech understanding and music. I've been on both sides, hearing is FAR better than not!!
Just curious if you are fluent in Sign Language and at what age you learned it?
 

hoichi

Well-Known Member
[



I wouldn't trust information from the CI industry anymore than I'd trust information from that site. They both have clear goals and their opinion on the matter is out for display prior to reading anything.

Research can and does happen in an unbiased way. Research Universities are great at it. Then with enough independent studies by different research universities, clear trends are visible.

Well we have been chatting about this for a bit, if this is what you state, ill tske yoir word for it, im not going to claim to know what goes on in your mind.

This isnt just about research, though.
 

hoichi

Well-Known Member
As a deaf adult who now has CI's, get your deaf baby to the CI clinic as fast as you can. Life is SOOOOOO much better with sound, speech understanding and music. I've been on both sides, hearing is FAR better than not!!

In other words, hearies are so much better then Deaf, they can flap their lips like good parots, and listen to the soothing sounds of ozzy osborn, hearies are so much better then second class Deaf,
Get your baby fixed now....
Mmmmm..
Yeah, the net offers this kind of rubish, in person inplants a long with some teeth prob would be removed....
Meh
 

hoichi

Well-Known Member
There are never going to be guarantees with implants, nor probably agreement about whether they're appropriate. All parents don't agree on immunizations or many other decisions regarding health. Most parents just try to give their kids the best chance of success as they see it but that's going to mean different things to every parent. Just as sending a child to an expensive school is no guarantee they'll get into Harvard, implants don't guarantee that a child will be more successful, but nothing else will either. That isn't going to stop parents from spending money in the hope it will improve their children's odds to have a better life.

Unless implants are shown to not be effective for any child, or to be very dangerous, why would parents not consider them just as they do other things? Kids have their tonsils out and other medical procedures even with a slight risk of death or complications, kids climb trees and skateboard and do all kinds of things more risky than getting implanted.

Some parents are going to decide to have their children implanted and that's not likely to change as long as at least some children benefit from them and as long as their children are eligible. No choices a parent makes come with a guarantee.

Your just ignoring the issues and statng water is wet, yeah life has no gaurantees...
Ok
Next.....
 

blondie123

New Member
after mastoid surgery

Ive had 2 surgeries on my ear, one to fix a hole in my ear drum then another to remove a mastoid tumor which was non cancerous. Has anyone had any mental issues resulting after their surgery? I dont know if its from the surgery or if its something else. I had a long recovery after my second surgery, which resulted in me having a couple respiratory infections, and my thyroid quit all at once after my surgeries were over. I was unable to work for almost 2 years, since then I feel more stressed and etc. I just didnt know if its a result from being so sick or not. I couldnt stand to be around noises for awhile after my surgeries. I stayed home where its quiet and still do even though its been 2 years after my surgery. I dont even think I can hold a job after the surgery for more than 6 months because of hearing loss. I had so many headaches for a long time before the surgeries, I never left home, stayed home and slept, it was just like migranes. Maybe its just the fear of going through it all again because they told me it was going to happen with my other ear. I just cried for 2 days after I heard I had a tumor, the doctor said he didnt know where it came from. Ive tried college and have quit twice already from being under stress. Please someone just give me some advise. And thanks in advance.
 

soutthpaw

Active Member
Ive had 2 surgeries on my ear, one to fix a hole in my ear drum then another to remove a mastoid tumor which was non cancerous. Has anyone had any mental issues resulting after their surgery? I dont know if its from the surgery or if its something else. I had a long recovery after my second surgery, which resulted in me having a couple respiratory infections, and my thyroid quit all at once after my surgeries were over. I was unable to work for almost 2 years, since then I feel more stressed and etc. I just didnt know if its a result from being so sick or not. I couldnt stand to be around noises for awhile after my surgeries. I stayed home where its quiet and still do even though its been 2 years after my surgery. I dont even think I can hold a job after the surgery for more than 6 months because of hearing loss. I had so many headaches for a long time before the surgeries, I never left home, stayed home and slept, it was just like migranes. Maybe its just the fear of going through it all again because they told me it was going to happen with my other ear. I just cried for 2 days after I heard I had a tumor, the doctor said he didnt know where it came from. Ive tried college and have quit twice already from being under stress. Please someone just give me some advise. And thanks in advance.
I suggest making your own thread as this is really off topic. You will probably get a better response too. This is about parents considering implants for kids
 

Nic

Member
As a deaf adult who now has CI's, get your deaf baby to the CI clinic as fast as you can. Life is SOOOOOO much better with sound, speech understanding and music. I've been on both sides, hearing is FAR better than not!!

In other words, hearies are so much better then Deaf, they can flap their lips like good parots, and listen to the soothing sounds of ozzy osborn, hearies are so much better then second class Deaf,
Get your baby fixed now....
Mmmmm..
Yeah, the net offers this kind of rubish, in person inplants a long with some teeth prob would be removed....
Meh
Oh come on, he didn't say any of that. You might interpret someone success with CI and appreciation for hearing to mean that, but that only shows what you believe.

He said life is better, he enjoys sound, speech understanding, and music. He said he's had both perspectives. He suggests CI for babies.

He did not say hearies are better than Deafies, or that Deaf are second class.
He didn't say fixed, you assumed fixed. It's not a fix, it's an augment. He didn't even imply fix.

In fact, those words wouldn't even be here if you hadn't put them here.

He just shared his experience hearing and not hearing, and made a recommendation based on his experience. Is it wrong for people to share their experiences now?
 

hoichi

Well-Known Member
Oh come on, he didn't say any of that. You might interpret someone success with CI and appreciation for hearing to mean that, but that only shows what you believe.

He i said life is better, he enjoys sound, speech understanding, and music. He said he's had both perspectives. He suggests CI for babies.

He did not say hearies are better than Deafies, or that Deaf are second class.
He didn't say fixed, you assumed fixed. It's not a fix, it's an augment. He didn't even imply fix.

In fact, those words wouldn't even be here if you hadn't put them here.

He just shared his experience hearing and not hearing, and made a recommendation based on his experience. Is it wrong for people to share their experiences now?

He never just said it about him. He put value jugments on it regarding life
If i said, be white, make your black baby white as fast as you can.....life is sooooo much better as a white man...
What would someone black take from that statement?
I never said black is inferior, i only stated life as white is better
But people have the ability to infer things and meanings beyond what has actually been stated....we do it every damn day..with all sorts of things..
 

hoichi

Well-Known Member
Here are his words, with a word changed



"As a white adult who was once black. , get your black baby to the white clinic as fast as you can. Life is SOOOOOO much better bieng white. ..... I've been on both sides, white is FAR better than not!!"

That is with one word changed, i aso removed speech,and music to keep it docused....to demonstrate a point
How would blacks take this? What would be inferred?
 

Nic

Member
He never just said it about him. He put value jugments on it regarding life
If i said, be white, make your black baby white as fast as you can.....life is sooooo much better as a white man...
What would someone black take from that statement?
I never said black is inferior, i only stated life as white is better
But people have the ability to infer things and meanings beyond what has actually been stated....we do it every damn day..with all sorts of things..
He lead with "As a deaf adult..." it is then implied everything that follows is his opinion and experience.

I'll reply to the black and white part in your second post, it's more pointed and I have to think a bit on that, it makes a good point.
 

Nic

Member
Here are his words, with a word changed

"As a white adult who was once black. , get your black baby to the white clinic as fast as you can. Life is SOOOOOO much better bieng white. ..... I've been on both sides, white is FAR better than not!!"

That is with one word changed, i aso removed speech,and music to keep it docused....to demonstrate a point
How would blacks take this? What would be inferred?
This paints a good picture of how the issue has a second paradigm.

Truthfully, it is easier being white than black in the US (maybe world wide). I think most people know this. I think Blacks know this. There is definitely something to the white privilege thing, doors open more easily if you look a certain way, or are part of a certain culture. It is an inequality that does exist. The same does apply to being Deaf, or being part of any other minority culture without blending into mainstream culture.

It does demonstrate the second paradigm. That Deaf is also a culture. But like Black culture, Deaf culture is more than just being black or being deaf. Some blacks will say that someone isn't "black enough" just like some Deaf will say that someone isn't "deaf enough". But for the most part, it's not like that. The general consensus is that you can be Black without being dark skinned, and you can be Deaf while still hearing to some degree. Similarly you can be dark skinned without being Black and you can be deaf without being Deaf.

This begs the question. Is it being dark skinned that's causing problems, is it being deaf that's causing problems, or is it being part of Black culture, or part of Deaf culture that's the problem. (edit: this is worded poorly, replace problem with discrimination, and causes with triggers or leads to, it's closer to what I mean. Do the same for below where I say barrier of entry, it should also read discrimination).

The case is actually different for each of these. Being part of Deaf culture, most hearies don't even know what that is or that it exists, so I'd hazzard a guess that it's not the culture itself that causes the barrier to entry, but the physical deafness.

In regards to skin color, Indians are just as dark are Blacks, but don't experience the same barriers to entry. So I'd again hazzard a guess that's it Black culture itself that raises the barriers. Then for fair skinned people, there are fair skinned people of other cultures who face similar barriers of entry too. Similarly there are hearing people who do. But deaf or Deaf, the barrier is the same one, it's the physical deafness, not the culture.

Since the two likely have different triggers, the comparison is unfair. It does serve a purpose though, to demonstrate the second paradigm in a very clear way. But I think that's the only thing it can do.
 
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hoichi

Well-Known Member
He lead with "As a deaf adult..." it is then implied everything that follows is his opinion and experience.

I'll reply to the black and white part in your second post, it's more pointed and I have to think a bit on that, it makes a good point.


Alright
 

hoichi

Well-Known Member
[



This paints a good picture of how the issue has a second paradigm..

Indeed


Truthfully, it is easier being white than black in the US (maybe world wide). I think most people know this. I think Blacks know this. There is definitely something to the white privilege thing, doors open more easily if you look a certain way, or are part of a certain culture. It is an inequality that does exist. The same does apply to being Deaf, or being part of any other minority culture without blending into mainstream culture..

Right, and the reasons for that rest with thr majority culture, the plm is due to majority discrimination, on muliple levels, in a variety of ways, taking different forms, sometimes overt, often covert, all have a sting and a bite to the ones on the recieving end




It does demonstrate the second paradigm. That Deaf is also a culture. But like Black culture, Deaf culture is more than just being black or being deaf. Some blacks will say that someone isn't "black enough" just like some Deaf will say that someone isn't "deaf enough". But for the most part, it's not like that. The general consensus is that you can be Black without being dark skinned, and you can be Deaf while still hearing to some degree. Similarly you can be dark skinned without being Black and you can be deaf without being Deaf..

For sure, we are very complex beings


This begs the question. Is it being dark skinned that's causing problems, is it being deaf that's causing problems, or is it being part of Black culture, or part of Deaf culture that's the problem..



The case is actually different for each of these. Being part of Deaf culture, most hearies don't even know what that is or that it exists, so I'd hazzard a guess that it's not the culture itself that causes the barrier to entry, but the physical deafness..

Its not the pysical deafness its the discrimination against the pysical deafness that is the fundemental issue


In regards to skin color, Indians are just as dark are Blacks, but don't experience the same barriers to entry. So I'd again hazzard a guess that's it Black culture itself that raises the barriers. Then for fair skinned people, there are fair skinned people of other cultures who face similar barriers of entry too. Similarly there are hearing people who do. But deaf or Deaf, the barrier is the same one..

Racism in a variety of forms is what causes the barriers against blacks man....cmon...
Other white cultures indeed have felt the sting, but with a difference, being white the bigotry was one mainly wither of religion or of culture not one founded on race..thus blacks have felt the bsrriers allot deeper and allot longer then say, italian emegrants ( my family fathers side as an example)... and indeed we felt all sorts of bigortry and against our community, but not on the same level nor with the same teeth as blacks have, because of the different foundations of it..its easy for a white to shake s finger at blacks and say they sre the cause of the barriers,,because those bareiers have not been built against them, so its hard to descern...especfialy when its not in an overt in yoir face kkk type of form. Natives even fsce more barriers and in my experience racism of the very real kind is rampant and alive against natives....in every way



Since the two likely have different triggers, the comparison is unfair. It does serve a purpose though, to demonstrate the second paradigm in a very clear way. But I think that's the only thing it can do.

What is being conpared is the discrimination, not those being discriminated against you have it inverted. Its not left to those being the victims of discrimination, blakcs, Deaf, natives, to take responsibility for it, ie black culture is a cause to barriers, its the responsibility of the majority race and culture, white, hearie, that holds the responsability for its behavoir and actions, not its victims

My post indeed was to.demonstrate the paradigm difference and tobshow how deep audism goes, in regards to this issue for those who hokd a religious zeal for implanting our babies...
 

Reba

Retired Terp
Premium Member
Ive had 2 surgeries on my ear, one to fix a hole in my ear drum then another to remove a mastoid tumor which was non cancerous. Has anyone had any mental issues resulting after their surgery? I dont know if its from the surgery or if its something else. I had a long recovery after my second surgery, which resulted in me having a couple respiratory infections, and my thyroid quit all at once after my surgeries were over. I was unable to work for almost 2 years, since then I feel more stressed and etc. I just didnt know if its a result from being so sick or not. I couldnt stand to be around noises for awhile after my surgeries. I stayed home where its quiet and still do even though its been 2 years after my surgery. I dont even think I can hold a job after the surgery for more than 6 months because of hearing loss. I had so many headaches for a long time before the surgeries, I never left home, stayed home and slept, it was just like migranes. Maybe its just the fear of going through it all again because they told me it was going to happen with my other ear. I just cried for 2 days after I heard I had a tumor, the doctor said he didnt know where it came from. Ive tried college and have quit twice already from being under stress. Please someone just give me some advise. And thanks in advance.
MODS: Can you please help blondie123 move this post to a new Introduction thread?
 

Nic

Member
Right, and the reasons for that rest with thr majority culture, the plm is due to majority discrimination, on muliple levels, in a variety of ways, taking different forms, sometimes overt, often covert, all have a sting and a bite to the ones on the recieving end
Yes it is due to discrimination. I reread what I wrote and added an edit. Anywhere I said problem or barrier of entry or cause should have been more along the lines of are the aspects that lead to discrimination. The features that are discriminated against or that trigger the discrimination or something. I don't really have a good set of words to say this right now.

I know the culture, skin color, race, or ability hear aren't the cause of the discrimination, they are what is being discriminated against. I just worded all that poorly.


Its not the pysical deafness its the discrimination against the pysical deafness that is the fundemental issue
Agreed, again poor wording on my part.


Racism in a variety of forms is what causes the barriers against blacks man....cmon...
I again agree, I didn't mean to imply that culture, color, etc are the cause. I just used the wrong words to say what I am thinking. I meant to say they are what is being discriminated against. They are the aspects that others use to discriminate.

My whole point was it isn't just being dark skinned that singles blacks out for being discriminated against the way they are. It's more the culture that's being discriminated again. If it was just skin color (and sometimes it probably is) then Indians and other dark skinned non-blacks would face the same persecution. The majority of the time, an Indian would be welcomed somewhere in the US that a Black wouldn't.

Then for Deaf, it isn't at all the culture that's being discriminated against, it's the ability to hear. It's a very different type of discrimination bias. I think you understood that part of what I meant to say in-spite of my poor wording.

I have a really tough time relating to the mentality that triggers that type of discrimination. I can't justify it at all, and the best I can do is realize that people generalize and carry that forward, but it's just ignorant.


Other white cultures indeed have felt the sting, but with a difference, being white the bigotry was one mainly wither of religion or of culture not one founded on race..thus blacks have felt the bsrriers allot deeper and allot longer then say, italian emegrants ( my family fathers side as an example)... and indeed we felt all sorts of bigortry and against our community, but not on the same level nor with the same teeth as blacks have, because of the different foundations of it..its easy for a white to shake s finger at blacks and say they sre the cause of the barriers,,because those bareiers have not been built against them, so its hard to descern...especfialy when its not in an overt in yoir face kkk type of form. Natives even fsce more barriers and in my experience racism of the very real kind is rampant and alive against natives....in every way



What is being conpared is the discrimination, not those being discriminated against you have it inverted. Its not left to those being the victims of discrimination, blakcs, Deaf, natives, to take responsibility for it, ie black culture is a cause to barriers, its the responsibility of the majority race and culture, white, hearie, that holds the responsability for its behavoir and actions, not its victims

My post indeed was to.demonstrate the paradigm difference and tobshow how deep audism goes, in regards to this issue for those who hokd a religious zeal for implanting our babies...
These are different types of discrimination though, so it's tough to draw exact lines and compare them.

I agree it's the responsibility of the majority to cull discrimination, but I also believe that the minority can't just wait for them majority to do it. It's in the best interest of the minority, and the majority quite frankly might not give a hoot or ever act.

Without the majority, it can't be solved though, by definition. So long as the majority discriminates, it's a problem that exists for the minority. So the minority needing to act, needs to get the majority to help, to change the majority. The majority changing is a requirement to solving the problem.

I still think the ultimate solution to the problem is through more education. The majority of college grads I know just don't possess the same capacity of discrimination as the majority of lesser educated people. On average, they're far more open minded, able to relate, and understanding of minorities, differences, and what makes having those differences good.

So if the majority of people get a higher level of education, the majority should shift from being discriminatory bigots to people who understand that our differences are what makes the world interesting, and our differences aren't really all that different at all.
 

hoichi

Well-Known Member
[



Yes it is due to discrimination. I reread what I wrote and added an edit. Anywhere I said problem or barrier of entry or cause should have been more along the lines of are the aspects that lead to discrimination. The features that are discriminated against or that trigger the discrimination or something. I don't really have a good set of words to say this right now.

I know the culture, skin color, race, or ability hear aren't the cause of the discrimination, they are what is being discriminated against. I just worded all that poorly.


Agreed, again poor wording on my part.


I again agree, I didn't mean to imply that culture, color, etc are the cause. I just used the wrong words to say what I am thinking. I meant to say they are what is being discriminated against. They are the aspects that others use to discriminate.l.

Alright no plm....


My whole point was it isn't just being dark skinned that singles blacks out for being discriminated against the way they are. It's more the culture that's being discriminated again. If it was just skin color (and sometimes it probably is) then Indians and other dark skinned non-blacks would face the same persecution. The majority of the time, an Indian would be welcomed somewhere in the US that a Black wouldn't.l.

Its never just the skin color, prejudice of any type, racism against blacks, anti semtism against jews, audism again Deaf are a complex issues..it doesnt serve the discussion.well in my opinion to pidgeon hole it on one defining factor..indeed indians from india dont face the same discrimination then a black from missisipi, or the hood, but deoending on.where they akso.do feel the sting of racism, to them its not as biting prob due to how many of them are in.high paying gigs, in tech or ed so on...so they have the loot to sport the cloths and walk the walk, and speak like a white man, depending on where in india they hale from and what class.


Then for Deaf, it isn't at all the culture that's being discriminated against, it's the ability to hear. It's a very different type of discrimination bias. I think you understood that part of what I meant to say in-spite of my poor wording.l.

When we conpare things, we dont mewn they are identicaly the same.yes the discrinination.against blacks, or the anti semtism against jews, or audism against Deaf all are different, but all share some charactoristcs, and similer ideological reasoning.


I have a really tough time relating to the mentality that triggers that type of discrimination. I can't justify it at all, and the best I can do is realize that people generalize and carry that forward, but it's just ignorant.l.

Yes and its very much rampant and ingrained in society audism is very much alive and kicking

These are different types of discrimination though, so it's tough to draw exact lines and compare them. l.

There are different types of cancer too, yet they all share something similer as well. Comparisn doesnt equate to exactly the same

I agree it's the responsibility of the majority to cull discrimination, but I also believe that the minority can't just wait for them majority to do it. It's in the best interest of the minority, and the majority quite frankly might not give a hoot or ever act. l.

Indeed this true...thw Deaf have been organized as an exmole NAD for over a hundred years, and it was through deaf actions that sign language was saved, when it banned, when it forced underground,when we coukdnt even use it amongst ourselves in our own schools..Deaf saved it..against hearie wishes...in spite of hearie desires. But ci is a very different threat, and its actually has taken a dreadfull toll thus far..

Without the majority, it can't be solved though, by definition. So long as the majority discriminates, it's a problem that exists for the minority. So the minority needing to act, needs to get the majority to help, to change the majority. The majority changing is a requirement to solving the problem.l.

Yes, it is...its rather difficult though when the majority rather then.face their discrimination they infkict, have cooked up a technokogy to assimilate us, in other words to make blacks white rather then end discrimination against blacks...its far easier for the majority to push and drill implants then look in the mirror at how theu discriminate.

I still think the ultimate solution to the problem is through more education. The majority of college grads I know just don't possess the same capacity of discrimination as the majority of lesser educated people. On average, they're far more open minded, able to relate, and understanding of minorities, differences, and what makes having those differences good. l.

When if comes to.prejeduce of any kind education is indeed needed and important. But its not a magick bullet...plenty of anti semites exist and walk the halls of academia, and audism is even mkre grounded in hearie society then anti senitism is. But education is a huge goal though...

So if the majority of people get a higher level of education, the majority should shift from being discriminatory bigots to people who understand that our differences are what makes the world interesting, and our differences aren't really all that different at all.

Ibagree to a point...but the plm of bigotry historicaly certainly was not the sole doman of the un educated classes...plenty of top teir nazis where highly educated, almost all the top ideologues of oralism which is a sister ideology to nazism were highky educated people...bell was no low class, un educated bigot, on the contrary it was the opposite, and to this dsy both movments the rise of extreme right wing again in europe and the continued msrch of oralism have highly educated ideologues involved....
But i agree education is one psrt and an important part of the struggle...
 
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