ASL, SEE, PSE, etc.

[InnocentOdion]

Hello guys.

I hear a lot on the infamous SEE. I don't know much about it at all. I thought it was like, a version of English completely fingerspelled.

What is it about the "ly", "ed", etcetera things that I've heard on here in reference to SEE?

Is it possible to get these questions cleared up? The best way I can think of is some phrases, how they would work in ASL, SEE, PSE and other types.


Hello, my name is InnocentOdion. I am 20 years old. I have 1 daughter and my wife is 5 months pregnant. I am not d/Deaf. I am Hard of Hearing. I am learning Sign Language.
Love y'all!
IO

 

[deafskeptic]

Hello guys.

I hear a lot on the infamous SEE. I don't know much about it at all. I thought it was like, a version of English completely fingerspelled.

What is it about the "ly", "ed", etcetera things that I've heard on here in reference to SEE?

Is it possible to get these questions cleared up? The best way I can think of is some phrases, how they would work in ASL, SEE, PSE and other types.


Hello, my name is InnocentOdion. I am 20 years old. I have 1 daughter and my wife is 5 months pregnant. I am not d/Deaf. I am Hard of Hearing. I am learning Sign Language.
Love y'all!
IO

Signed particples, prepostional phrases and infinitives makes SEE (Signed Exact English) cumbersome and hard on both signers and receiptants because they break up the natural flow of sign language.


To say I am going to the store is cumbersome in SEE. It works perfectly well in spoken english but not so well in SEE. This sentence contains a prepostinal phrase.

PSE would be something like I go store.

It's much easier to just say Store go (signing the sign for go in the direction of the store.) in ASL.

 

[deafskeptic]

Signed particples, prepostional phrases and infinitives makes SEE (Signed Exact English) cumbersome and hard on both signers and receiptants because they break up the natural flow of sign language.


To say I am going to the store is cumbersome in SEE. It works perfectly well in spoken english but not so well in SEE. This sentence contains a prepostinal phrase.

PSE would be something like I go store.

It's much easier to just say Store go (signing the sign for go in the direction of the store.) in ASL.

Oh yes, I forgot to mention that prepositions like at and for can make SEE cumbersome as well. However, they are used in ASL if they don't break up the natural order of sign. They're not done in the same way as English though.

 

[jillio]

Oh yes, I forgot to mention that prepositions like at and for can make SEE cumbersome as well. However, they are used in ASL if they don't break up the natural order of sign. They're not done in the same way as English though.

Exactly. And the visual mode of English that is completely fingerspelled is the Rochester method.

SEE: I am go-ing to the store. (Initialized sign for I, sign for am, sign for go, sign for ing, sign for the sign for store)

PSE: I go store.

ASL: Store go.

 

[Angel]

Exactly. And the visual mode of English that is completely fingerspelled is the Rochester method.

SEE: I am go-ing to the store. (Initialized sign for I, sign for am, sign for go, sign for ing, sign for the sign for store)

PSE: I go store.

ASL: Store go.

Right, I sign SEE mostly than ASL.

 

[rockdrummer]

I am no expert but from what I gather SEE is used to help teach english literacy. It's cumbersome as a communication mode. Too much signing. Here is a link to a thread I started a while back on the topic.

http://www.alldeaf.com/sign-language-oralism/29631-asl-see-sign-signed-english.html

Perhaps you might find some useful information there as well. All the best!

 

[deafskeptic]

Right, I sign SEE mostly than ASL.

As for me, I sign mostly PSE but I've had some deaf complain i'm too SEE.

 

[restless_heart]

Exactly. And the visual mode of English that is completely fingerspelled is the Rochester method.

SEE: I am go-ing to the store. (Initialized sign for I, sign for am, sign for go, sign for ing, sign for the sign for store)

PSE: I go store.

ASL: Store go.

She is right. I am using SEE and have been all my life. Learning ASL, pretty tough because it is like I am addict to SEE and have a habit using SEE all the time. I rarely sign for 13 years and went back to SEE again. SEE and ASL are not the same. Can I ask why most rather use ASL than SEE? Why is it easier for them to use ASL than SEE, is it because it is quicker or...? I am trying to understand why there are three different deaf language today than just one. I have met many deaf people, some used ASL, SEE (rarely) and PSE. It is all not the same, it is hard to focus on what they are saying in ASL and PSE because I am used to SEE and in hearing world all my life.

 

[VamPyroX]

Signed particples, prepostional phrases and infinitives makes SEE (Signed Exact English) cumbersome and hard on both signers and receiptants because they break up the natural flow of sign language.


To say I am going to the store is cumbersome in SEE. It works perfectly well in spoken english but not so well in SEE. This sentence contains a prepostinal phrase.

PSE would be something like I go store.

It's much easier to just say Store go (signing the sign for go in the direction of the store.) in ASL.

You're right. It's easier to say "store go" in ASL. But it makes us lazy sometimes when it comes to maintaining proper grammar structure.

 

[flip]

You're right. It's easier to say "store go" in ASL. But it makes us lazy sometimes when it comes to maintaining proper grammar structure.

Wouldn't it be more correct to say that a deaf person signing "store go" is maintaining proper grammar in ASL, while a person signing "I go store" is lazy and don't maintain proper grammar in english nor ASL?

 

[rockdrummer]

Wouldn't it be more correct to say that a deaf person signing "store go" is maintaining proper grammar in ASL, while a person signing "I go store" is lazy and don't maintain proper grammar in english nor ASL?

How would that be considered lazy? The second requires more signing. Generally lazy people try to take the easy way out.

 

[jillio]

As for me, I sign mostly PSE but I've had some deaf complain i'm too SEE.

In my experience, some deaf who are very ASL see PSE and too SEE because the syntax is more English, even though it isn't nearly as cumbersome as SEE.

 

[jillio]

You're right. It's easier to say "store go" in ASL. But it makes us lazy sometimes when it comes to maintaining proper grammar structure.

But "Store go" is proper grammar structure in ASL.

 

[jillio]

How would that be considered lazy? The second requires more signing. Generally lazy people try to take the easy way out.

Not lazy in the sense of the number of signs....lazy in the effort to learn proper grammar structure for the langauge of ASL. At least, that's what I interpret flip's post to mean. If I'm wrong, I'm sure she will correct me.

 

[Kaitin]

Right, I sign SEE mostly than ASL.

Angel or others who use SEE a lot, can I ask you questions about SEE? I am curious about everyday using SEE but I don't want you uncomfortable. I hope these are ok.

With friends etc when you use SEE do you sign/spell the word ending like "ing" and "ly"? Do you sign the little words like "a" "the"? Do you sign the "to be" words? And do you point for "you" "me" etc or sign/spell these?

I wonder if in everyday conversation SEE is exact English really or more PSE? I know a lot of hearing people who use English grammar but don't sign/spell word ending etc. and wonder if they use SEE or PSE? Everyday (not classes etc) do people use SExactE really?

Sorry if this makes little sense. I think about SEE and PSE and then get confused by my own brain and probably this is worse for people reading my post! :P

 

[flip]

Not lazy in the sense of the number of signs....lazy in the effort to learn proper grammar structure for the langauge of ASL. At least, that's what I interpret flip's post to mean. If I'm wrong, I'm sure she will correct me.

Yes, you got me right. Many people do not take the effort to learn proper grammars of ASL, and keep on signing PSE and SEE as the easy way out from what I have seen.

 

[flip]

How would that be considered lazy? The second requires more signing. Generally lazy people try to take the easy way out.

But you have to express less, as less is said with PSE and SEE in the same time it's said in ASL. Who is lazy?

 

[dramasteph]

Yeah I too sign more PSE, especially when speaking and signing or trying to translate something quickly from English to sign.

I'd also add that ASL is not necessarily lazy, but also faster. It takes much more time to convey the same meaning with all these extra, unnecessary words like "to" or suffixes or prefixes. Also consider that the deaf are relying upon their eyes to make their way through the world, not their ears, so it takes more time and energy to lipread and understand "I think I am going to the store" instead of "go store" and possibly add "I" to the end.
*Please correct me if you disagree or think something is inaccurate or incomplete.*

 

[Babyblue]

I usually sign PSE or SEE with I'm talking and signing. English is my first language and I do sign ASL but I do have to keep my mouth shut in order to keep me from signing PSE or SEE. I learned to sign in 1988. ASL usually have more body language and facial expressions with a lot of emotions very exciting language.

 

[Cheri]

Angel or others who use SEE a lot, can I ask you questions about SEE? I am curious about everyday using SEE but I don't want you uncomfortable. I hope these are ok.

With friends etc when you use SEE do you sign/spell the word ending like "ing" and "ly"? Do you sign the little words like "a" "the"? Do you sign the "to be" words? And do you point for "you" "me" etc or sign/spell these?

I wonder if in everyday conversation SEE is exact English really or more PSE? I know a lot of hearing people who use English grammar but don't sign/spell word ending etc. and wonder if they use SEE or PSE? Everyday (not classes etc) do people use SExactE really?

Sorry if this makes little sense. I think about SEE and PSE and then get confused by my own brain and probably this is worse for people reading my post! :P

Good question, Kaitin with SEE (Signing Exact English) You sign everything that you say and even the little words they place the word order the same as one does when writing English.

But, with having an interpreter, we do not uses an interpreter that uses SEE, we uses an interpreter that uses ASL. It's much easlier and faster.