Airbus crashes in French Alps; 150 dead

respectyoda said:
Reba, if the child has two near-perfect parents then the home environment will be great for the child. This doesn't mean the child will go on to grow up and enter the big bad world and function as a law abiding citizen because there is always the possibility the child can become an adult and make serious blunders in life by associating with the wrong group of people, getting involved in things the now adult shouldn't get into, etc.

Yes, some children have had horrendous childhoods and turned out fine. That's because they grew up and pulled themselves away from that bad environment and set themselves on the right path to success.

What I am trying to focus concerning Mr. Lubitz is how he chose to do this heinous crime and how this also speaks for the rest of the world when people turn to medication that are mind-altering.
Click to expand...

(removed Navy color as it is PAINFULLY difficult to read in the AD dark theme and I am vision impaired...)

No.. one can have near-perfect parents and STILL have a lousy childhood experience for MANY reasons- disability, gay, trans*, the child STILL can have some form of depression early one even if the parents are 1950s perfect. I know from experience(whether or not it's MINE I will not say).

What Lubitz chose to do with HIS life does NOT speak to the rest of the world on what they do with THEIR lives.. you are placing an awful lot of responsibility or weight upon his shoulders pointing to .."see! this is what happens when you all go on medication!"- that isn't fair to him even though what he did was heinous (of that I agree) . No... not for everyone. Yes, medication can cause adverse side effects. All medication do. By your logic no one should be taking medication for medical issues(and yes mental illness is a medical issue- yes it exists, no it is not made up) like oh...cancer. Just will yourself to become an optimist and wish it away! Many people don't HAVE a choice in taking medication so 'turning to medication' does improve their lives drastically.

As for morals-- I don't get why you are even bringing that into this thread at all when it is about Lubitz and what happened with him. You are taking the whole morals thing and making the leap to apply it to everyone else in the world.

You know.. I can see this thread getting locked again...:locked:
 
How are you certain he abused his meds? Respectyoda..
You keep saying if a person is depressed all a person has to dO is do something about it, besides think happy thoughts you have offered nothing...
Dont you understand...thinking happy thoughts doesnt work in this, its not thst easy...when people sre suffering greatly under depression and mental illness..happy thoughts doesnt cut it..
You should be carefull. i wouldnt want you do convince someone to snap there fingers and think of tulips as a solution to grave mental illness and that person drop seeking valiD treatment by certified medical doctors, and subsequently off themselfs and others...
Think about what your arguing...peoples lifes can be altered by your bull****.
 
Don't jump to conclusions here! I did not say I don't love or respect people who suffer from depression. It is just that if people want to turn to antidepressants, this is not the best way to handle depression. It is all how one perceives life. There are many reasons why people are depressed. If a person is depressed over something, then all the person needs to do is do something about it, not turn to medication!
Click to expand...

omg. seriously....

I once talked to a friend of mine regarding this. While yes counseling, doing whatever activities do work... sometimes they just DON'T. She said if you can POINT to a reason why you are depressed then perhaps counseling would work with a short term medication. BUT if you CAN'T point to why you are depressed- everything else in your life is good and nothing bad- great job, good family life, wonderful friends, food in your belly, roof over your head and yet... you STILL have this black black cloud over your head and a deep deep DEEP pain in your chest (that isn't medical by any means) then medication may be the only answer. No amount of "SNAP OUT OF IT!" or "THINK POSITIVE THOUGHTS!!" or counseling will help. You don't think that's been tried? I can tell you a few people I know have tried that.


To me it seems like while you claim you did not say you don't love/respect people with depression, you sure are treating those who take or need to take medication as second class citizens.
 
DeafDucky said:
(removed Navy color as it is PAINFULLY difficult to read in the AD dark theme and I am vision impaired...)

No.. one can have near-perfect parents and STILL have a lousy childhood experience for MANY reasons- disability, gay, trans*, the child STILL can have some form of depression early one even if the parents are 1950s perfect. I know from experience(whether or not it's MINE I will not say).

What Lubitz chose to do with HIS life does NOT speak to the rest of the world on what they do with THEIR lives.. you are placing an awful lot of responsibility or weight upon his shoulders pointing to .."see! this is what happens when you all go on medication!"- that isn't fair to him even though what he did was heinous (of that I agree) . No... not for everyone. Yes, medication can cause adverse side effects. All medication do. By your logic no one should be taking medication for medical issues(and yes mental illness is a medical issue- yes it exists, no it is not made up) like oh...cancer. Just will yourself to become an optimist and wish it away! Many people don't HAVE a choice in taking medication so 'turning to medication' does improve their lives drastically.

As for morals-- I don't get why you are even bringing that into this thread at all when it is about Lubitz and what happened with him. You are taking the whole morals thing and making the leap to apply it to everyone else in the world.

You know.. I can see this thread getting locked again...:locked:
Click to expand...

Oh, quite to the contrary, it does. What Mr. Lubitz chose to do with his life and that of his passengers on the plane once again shows that one has free will to do either good or evil. Plain and simple. This is also yet another case of one who chose to go on medication that can alter one's mind in which it leads to nothing good.

Of course, there can be adverse effects when taking medication, but you have to keep in mind that some medicines can be mind-altering and that is not good at all! People DO have a choice in NOT taking medication when it concerns something like depression where they just need to change their way of thinking and doing certain things in life. For example, if one is depressed that a loved one dies and feels like he/she has take medication, this is absolutely wrong and unnecessary. All this one needs to do is go properly through the grieving process and move on by realizing that the past is set in stone and there's the future to look to.

If he had morals and values, then he would value the lives of his fellow human beings and not have thoughts of bringing their life to a shattering end by piloting the aircraft into the mountains.

hoichi said:
How are you certain he abused his meds? Respectyoda..
You keep saying if a person is depressed all a person has to dO is do something about it, besides think happy thoughts you have offered nothing...
Dont you understand...thinking happy thoughts doesnt work in this, its not thst easy...when people sre suffering greatly under depression and mental illness..happy thoughts doesnt cut it..
You should be carefull. i wouldnt want you do convince someone to snap there fingers and think of tulips as a sokution tkbgrsve mental illness and that person drop seeking valiD treatment by certified medical doctors, and subsequently off themselfs and others...
Think about what your arguing...peoples lifes can be altered by your bull****.
Click to expand...

Read what I said carefully. I said, "Oh, I am fairly certain he abused his medication," NOT "I know he abused his medication."

I said it is much more than just having happy thoughts. It is taking the right actions to steer one's life in the right direction. This is WHAT Mr. Lubitz failed to do. Doctors may claim they have certifications and degrees, but in reality, many of them do not know how to help a person WITHOUT medication. They believe medicine is the answer to everything which is logically incorrect.
 
What does fairly certain even mean?
Is that close to an almost fact?
 
respectyoda said:

Don't jump to conclusions here! I did not say I don't love or respect people who suffer from depression. It is just that if people want to turn to antidepressants, this is not the best way to handle depression. It is all how one perceives life. There are many reasons why people are depressed. If a person is depressed over something, then all the person needs to do is do something about it, not turn to medication!
Click to expand...
That "something" that they need to do about it could be the right medication for a clinical chemical problem. You don't know what is the best way to "handle" depression. Do you even know the difference between a physiological chemical depression and an emotional situational depression?



. . . Too many doctors have their patients turn to medication and this is a result of what we have today in our society.
Click to expand...
Some doctors do overmedicate. We don't know the situation details for Lubitz.
 
DeafDucky said:
. . . You know.. I can see this thread getting locked again...:locked:
Click to expand...
I hope not. :( This was an important event and we are still learning more about it, the people involved, and what the airlines are doing about it.
 
Regarding mental illness and just thinking happy thoughts it's like deafness. You can't just tell me to "just start hearing things" and everything will be fine. Same for autism, you can't simply tell an autistic person to "stop being so weird".

While I do agree that some cases of depression medicine isn't the answer, the problem is that some people truly do have some kind of disability in their brain and do need medicine to treat their issues.

With that said, I'm done with this topic.
 
Respectyoda said:
Don't jump to conclusions here! I did not say I don't love or respect people who suffer from depression. It is just that if people want to turn to antidepressants, this is not the best way to handle depression. It is all how one perceives life. There are many reasons why people are depressed. If a person is depressed over something, then all the person needs to do is do something about it, not turn to medication!


I guess you missed, ".....chemically imbalanced......"; oh wait, you probably don't care....
 
Reba said:
That "something" that they need to do about it could be the right medication for a clinical chemical problem. You don't know what is the best way to "handle" depression. Do you even know the difference between a physiological chemical depression and an emotional situational depression?
Click to expand...

Doctors have come up with different labels for depression and the like, but it IS still depression and treatable without medication. Medicine does not cause people to suddenly have happy thoughts and have a better life. It is just the matter of the person steering himself/herself in the right direction making the right actions that will lead to a happier life. There is no need to be dependent upon medication to "eradicate" depression.

A Nihilist said:
Regarding mental illness and just thinking happy thoughts it's like deafness. You can't just tell me to "just start hearing things" and everything will be fine. Same for autism, you can't simply tell an autistic person to "stop being so weird".

While I do agree that some cases of depression medicine isn't the answer, the problem is that some people truly do have some kind of disability in their brain and do need medicine to treat their issues.

With that said, I'm done with this topic.
Click to expand...

I agree with the first part of what you said. However, there is a distinction between the brain and the mind. Some people may have a problem with their brain, but not their mind.
 
Reba said:
Do you even know the difference between a physiological chemical depression and an emotional situational depression?
Click to expand...

That's what I tell people. That there are two types of depression, chemical and situational.

I have had situational depression and I just ride it out (walking is a good way to get some relief). But I also know that if the depression lasts more than 2 weeks, I should seek proper medical attention in case it is actually chemical, not situational.

I, too, worry about doctors (mainly primary care) who will give their patients anti-depressants instead of referring the patient to a mental health professional. People on anti-depressants need to be monitored, especially in the beginning. It also takes time for the anti-depressant to take noticeable effect AND it's important to wean off the meds if the mental health professional thinks its ok to stop taking the meds. Stopping cold turkey on your own is dangerous.
 
respectyoda said:
Doctors have come up with different labels for depression and the like, but it IS still depression and treatable without medication. Medicine does not cause people to suddenly have happy thoughts and have a better life. It is just the matter of the person steering himself/herself in the right direction making the right actions that will lead to a happier life. There is no need to be dependent upon medication to "eradicate" depression.
Click to expand...
Clinical depression has nothing to do with happy thoughts or a better life.

As far as anyone could tell, Lubitz was headed in "the right direction" with his life. None of the witnesses said, "Oh, his actions make perfect sense; we saw him going down that road to destruction." Nope.

Please stay focused on this case.
 
Reba said:
I hope not. :( This was an important event and we are still learning more about it, the people involved, and what the airlines are doing about it.
Click to expand...
I agree- I hope not either but some of the discussion is kind of getting away from Lubitz's specific case/scenario like it did the first time it was closed.

So as you said in your last post.. I hope we can steer the thread back to this case and stop trying to apply it to others nevermind redefining what depression is.
 
In the end, i think in regards to this.some people are just born monsters...same goes with dogs and so on..
some dogs are just born.crazy....same goes with people...i think allot of the why? What caused him, so on, is a distraction, because its a done deal...and few people are asking ths right questions, non in the press...
Not why he did it...but why he was able and allowed to do what he did..those who through their neglegence wil get away and get bonjses and live a good life...and thats part of this tragedy really
 
Last edited:
respectyoda said:
I suggest you to read this article: Mr Lubitz and Medication.

This article states that he was on antidepressants. Antidepressants can be mind-altering drugs! He was also seeking psychiatric and medical help from doctors.

It's much more than just having happy thoughts to turn from a pessimist to an optimist in order to quell those suicidal thoughts.



There is no way he would have survived the crash.



Reba, if the child has two near-perfect parents then the home environment will be great for the child. This doesn't mean the child will go on to grow up and enter the big bad world and function as a law abiding citizen because there is always the possibility the child can become an adult and make serious blunders in life by associating with the wrong group of people, getting involved in things the now adult shouldn't get into, etc.

Yes, some children have had horrendous childhoods and turned out fine. That's because they grew up and pulled themselves away from that bad environment and set themselves on the right path to success.

What I am trying to focus concerning Mr. Lubitz is how he chose to do this heinous crime and how this also speaks for the rest of the world when people turn to medication that are mind-altering.
Click to expand...

I said if by "some miracle 'HAD' he lived" . I know there is no way he could survived the crash . I was saying I see this crash more as 'crime' than
a suicide . People are talking about his mental health and I refusing to blame this all on his 'mental health. ' He knew what he was going when he locked the pilot out of he cockpit.
 
Respectyoda.... If you don't mind, can you do some member(s) a favor and change your font color to have a color that is easier to read for those vision impaired members.

Thanks.

Let's stay on topic... moral thing, or discussing about medications other than the tragedy can make a new thread and discuss there.


DeafDucky said:
(removed Navy color as it is PAINFULLY difficult to read in the AD dark theme and I am vision impaired...)
Click to expand...
 
With this incident, will it be enough for airlines to be held accountable as it seems business are getting away with oversights like this as it was very apparent the pilot was not fit to fly?
 
Kai Onca said:
It should be more than just money.
Click to expand...

I agree but we'll have to wait and see what happen . I feel so horrible for all the families and friends that lost love ones , all the money in the world can't made up for the lost . :(
 
Back
Top