Air conditioning service

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deafsmogtech

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I brought my 2003 Honda Civic EX last week ago to my work for A/C (air conditioning) service that just stopped blowing cold air (happen last May). I open a hood and spot a lightly black oil (refrigerant oil) around the high pressure service port, obviously leaky Schrader valve. With the engine running, I check the compressor clutch engaged and rotates ok, and radiator/condenser fan motors still runs ok. I put my fingers on the low side line ( from evaporator core to compressor), feel no cold. I think it is low Freon in the system. I verified the pressure gauge readings before recover the Freon, High side....120psi, Low side..... 20psi at engine idle. Reclaim the Freon (engine stopped), found out the A/C machine just recovered only .04oz, like I say major leaks and worry over contaminated refrigerant (Freon)where the air/moisture entered into the system. I investigate the lines, condenser and compressor, found no sign of leaks (oil stained), then replace a new Schrader valve and evacuate about 30 minutes (very deep vacuum) to clear contaminated Freon, add about 1/4 oz dye detection oil and recharge 1.21 lbs R134a Freon into the system. I touch the low side line with my one finger to feel the line..... Very cold,observe the pressure readings ... High side 255 psi / Low side 45psi at idle and outside temp about 90 degree F. I insert my thermometer into the vent (center of the dashboard), the reading shows 42 degree F at idle and 38 degree F at cruise. Real cold air and make me happy mechanic. I remember I did serviced A/C system in last 5 years ago.

The cost of A/C service, Freon and dyed oil or labor is $ zero $$$$

We normal charge customers $49.95 for A/C service (not include freon) and $ 85 dollars per one Freon pound. Expensive?????
 
I did the same thing myself.

When the car was not getting cold air, I got refrigerant to refill it. :)
 
yep, typical 1oz small container. We have a 16oz dyed oil container in the stock. Did you know some car manufacturers installed dyed oil in the systems of the new vehicles?
 
VamPyroX said:
My dad already had a refill kit for years. I just went to his house with a new can I bought from the store and refilled it.
Click to expand...

You know that the refill kit or refrigerant can(s) to used to recharge the AC system as DIY..... they can get contamination if the system is open to the atmosphere by mean you open Schrader valve or disconnect hoses/lines for some reason like you try to remove the compressor to access the alternator or remove the radiator. Must be evacuate (vacuum pump sucks air/moisture out of the system). Many times I see the DIYers are good successful to fix the A/C systems cuz they don't open the A/C system. Sometime they send their vehicles to the shop to repair the A/C system or electrical problems.
 
VamPyroX said:
I did the same thing myself.

When the car was not getting cold air, I got refrigerant to refill it. :)
Click to expand...

My ex sister in law paid to have that done to her car and she was not told she had leak in the A/C and wasted money!
 
My 2000 Honda Civic EX still has the orginal ice cold A/C since I bought the car in 2006. I'm not sure if it's the same A/C freon or replaced it before I bought the car with 39.9k miles on it.
 
whatdidyousay! said:
My ex sister in law paid to have that done to her car and she was not told she had leak in the A/C and wasted money!
Click to expand...

Shame on a mechanic or service writer for not inform her about the leaky freon, however the customer can file a complaint against the repair shop for not repair right or ripoff.
 
sequoias said:
My 2000 Honda Civic EX still has the orginal ice cold A/C since I bought the car in 2006. I'm not sure if it's the same A/C freon or replaced it before I bought the car with 39.9k miles on it.
Click to expand...

Yes, correct. Same R134a refrigerant are using in modern A/C systems. Older vehicles use R12 refrigerant, but the R12 refrigerant supply were phased out in 2000 year, I think.
I understand you talk about the first ice cold A/C. I bet you notice the A/C starts to degrade cold air in few years later? Why? R134a are sucked, short live like last 3 or 4 years. You want ice cold air? Recover old freon then evac then recharge virgin R134a into the system, you are good for 3 or 4 years. But with recovery & recycler freon, take 2 years. Same as my Honda, I use recycled freon to recharge the A/C system, I cant complaint.
 
I notice the A/C compressors in every vehicles in anywhere, are more problematic, make noises or seized blame on R134a refrigerant. One instructor in A/C class, said the R134a refrigerant are more difficult to carry with refrigerant oil to lubricate the moving compressor parts and expansion valve.
I replaced compressors, dryer/receivers and expansion valves about 8 times in 2 years at same station.
 
whatdidyousay! said:
My ex sister in law paid to have that done to her car and she was not told she had leak in the A/C and wasted money!
Click to expand...
Either the mechanic was ignorant and knew about the leak... or he didn't bother to check.

There are some places that only checks for one thing while others check for everything.

For instance, you go to one mechanic and tell them that your A/C isn't working. They see that the blower is working and test the pressure. They see that it's empty and refill it. That's it.

Another mechanic may check the pressure and test it for leaks to see if it's caused by leaking and let you know about it.

I've had my share of dumb-assed mechanics. :roll:
 
Wirelessly posted (sent from a smartphone. )

deafsmogtech said:
sequoias said:
My 2000 Honda Civic EX still has the orginal ice cold A/C since I bought the car in 2006. I'm not sure if it's the same A/C freon or replaced it before I bought the car with 39.9k miles on it.
Click to expand...

Yes, correct. Same R134a refrigerant are using in modern A/C systems. Older vehicles use R12 refrigerant, but the R12 refrigerant supply were phased out in 2000 year, I think.
I understand you talk about the first ice cold A/C. I bet you notice the A/C starts to degrade cold air in few years later? Why? R134a are sucked, short live like last 3 or 4 years. You want ice cold air? Recover old freon then evac then recharge virgin R134a into the system, you are good for 3 or 4 years. But with recovery & recycler freon, take 2 years. Same as my Honda, I use recycled freon to recharge the A/C system, I cant complaint.
Click to expand...

Yea probably previous owner replaced it before I bought the car. It has 123k miles with same system since 2006. I'm surprised it still runs cold but not ICE cold.
 
VamPyroX said:
Either the mechanic was ignorant and knew about the leak... or he didn't bother to check.

There are some places that only checks for one thing while others check for everything.

For instance, you go to one mechanic and tell them that your A/C isn't working. They see that the blower is working and test the pressure. They see that it's empty and refill it. That's it.

Another mechanic may check the pressure and test it for leaks to see if it's caused by leaking and let you know about it.

I've had my share of dumb-assed mechanics. :roll:
Click to expand...

Exactly, I am the one of them. I didn't check freon leaks after finished A/C service in my Honda car. Why? My A/C service experience tells me. But it can happen anytime. However the R134a refrigerant is more difficult to detect the leaks with electronic leak detector than the R12 refrigerant. We use dyed oil to charge the system and advise a customer to bring a vehicle back, to recheck the leaks by use UV lamplight or flashlight ( special UV flashligh)
You think I am a dumbass mechanic? Lol
 
sequoias said:
Wirelessly posted (sent from a smartphone. )



Yea probably previous owner replaced it before I bought the car. It has 123k miles with same system since 2006. I'm surprised it still runs cold but not ICE cold.
Click to expand...

The outside temp around 70 degree F, you will notice ice cold air but later it becomes cold to cool when the outside temp rises about 90 or more degree F. That's why the R134a can't handle the heat well.
With R12 system, you get very freeze cold air in seconds when you turn A/C on. The vent temp would be 32 degree F and stays cold air when the outside temp around 100 degree F.
 
Wirelessly posted (sent from a smartphone. )

deafsmogtech said:
sequoias said:
Wirelessly posted (sent from a smartphone. )



Yea probably previous owner replaced it before I bought the car. It has 123k miles with same system since 2006. I'm surprised it still runs cold but not ICE cold.
Click to expand...

The outside temp around 70 degree F, you will notice ice cold air but later it becomes cold to cool when the outside temp rises about 90 or more degree F. That's why the R134a can't handle the heat well.
With R12 system, you get very freeze cold air in seconds when you turn A/C on. The vent temp would be 32 degree F and stays cold air when the outside temp around 100 degree F.
Click to expand...

That does make sense. Same as what you described on my car's a/c. Most newer cars at my work the same way. When its hot outside, it takes a while for a/c to cool down the interior.
 
deafsmogtech said:
Yes, correct. Same R134a refrigerant are using in modern A/C systems. Older vehicles use R12 refrigerant, but the R12 refrigerant supply were phased out in 2000 year, I think.
I understand you talk about the first ice cold A/C. I bet you notice the A/C starts to degrade cold air in few years later? Why? R134a are sucked, short live like last 3 or 4 years. You want ice cold air? Recover old freon then evac then recharge virgin R134a into the system, you are good for 3 or 4 years. But with recovery & recycler freon, take 2 years. Same as my Honda, I use recycled freon to recharge the A/C system, I cant complaint.
Click to expand...

Correct, I believe it's illegal to disconnect AC system without vacuum. Do you know why R12 don't make it anymore? It's can destroy for ozone more than R134a. My old Subaru don't need refilled for almost 11 years and yes, it's R134a. Maybe you use A/C too much? :dunno:

deafsmogtech said:
Exactly, I am the one of them. I didn't check freon leaks after finished A/C service in my Honda car. Why? My A/C service experience tells me. But it can happen anytime. However the R134a refrigerant is more difficult to detect the leaks with electronic leak detector than the R12 refrigerant. We use dyed oil to charge the system and advise a customer to bring a vehicle back, to recheck the leaks by use UV lamplight or flashlight ( special UV flashligh)
You think I am a dumbass mechanic? Lol
Click to expand...

It's normal for most dealers like me. Why think you are a dumbass?

Also, I learned that old vehicles with AC R12 system is worse MPG than new vehicles with R134a system on the highway.
 
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deafsmogtech said:
Shame on a mechanic or service writer for not inform her about the leaky freon, however the customer can file a complaint against the repair shop for not repair right or ripoff.
Click to expand...

My ex sister in law would never had reported the mechanic , she had no backbone at all! Her husband left her for that reason.
 
The Highlander said:
Correct, I believe it's illegal to disconnect AC system without vacuum. Do you know why R12 don't make it anymore? It's can destroy for ozone more than R134a. My old Subaru don't need refilled for almost 11 years and yes, it's R134a. Maybe you use A/C too much? :dunno:



It's normal for most dealers like me. Why think you are a dumbass?

Also, I learned that old vehicles with AC R12 system is worse MPG than new vehicles with R134a system on the highway.
Click to expand...

1) "Vacuum" is referring to refrigerant recovery & recycling machine

2) the production of the R12 were stopped before 2000 after the NASA scientists discovered the R12 is damage to the ozone layer and causes global warming. The lifetime of the R12 refrigerant in the atmosphere (ozone layer) is 100 YEARS!!!!! The R134a refrigerant (Eco-Friendly), in the atmosphere, is easy break down in about 7 or 8 years. R12 refrigerant can't break down till least 100 years.
In 1970's, the mechanics purged the R12 freon when open or disconnect the A/C system for repairs. There were no EPA law and insufficient A/C training courses, no recovery & recycling machines. Large amount of the R12 refrigerant were venting to the atmosphere. How long to get break down in the ozone layer? Maybe in 2070 or more.:Ohno:
3) 11 years old freon in a Subaru? That explain why I never see the Subaru customers complaint over A/C problems.
 
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