High Court Won't Hear BlackBerry Appeal

Heath

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WASHINGTON - The Supreme Court on Monday refused to hear an appeal from the maker of the BlackBerry in the long-running battle over patents for the wildly popular, handheld wireless e-mail device.

The high court's refusal to hear Canada-based Research In Motion Ltd.'s appeal means that a trial judge in Richmond, Va., could impose an injunction against the company and block BlackBerry use among many of its owners in the United States.

The justices had been asked to decide on whether U.S. patent law is technologically out of date in the age of the Internet and the global marketplace.

At issue was how U.S. law applies to technology that is used in a foreign country and allegedly infringes on the intellectual property rights of a patent-holder in the United States.

The justices were asked to decide whether Research In Motion can be held liable for patent infringement when its main relay station for e-mail and data transmission is located in Waterloo, Ontario, outside U.S. borders.

RIM was challenging a ruling by a federal appeals court that found that the company had infringed on the patents held by NTP Inc., a tiny northern Virginia patent-holding firm, because its customers use the BlackBerry inside U.S. borders. The panel said it did not matter where the relay station is located.

Since its introduction in 1999, the BlackBerry has revolutionized communications, allowing business travelers and government employees to send and receive e-mail outside their offices and away from their stationery computers.

The BlackBerry almost instantaneously transmits data through radio frequency technology that Thomas Campana Jr., an engineer, says he developed in 1990, long before the Internet became an integral part of American life.

The dispute not only has resonated with BlackBerry users who worry that their lifeline to their offices could be severed. The U.S. and Canadian governments also are concerned, as is Intel Corp., the world's largest semiconductor manufacturer.

U.S. officials worry about the loss of BlackBerry use for law enforcement and health workers in a crisis, while the Canadian government is concerned that research and development in other industries will be stifled if RIM loses on all fronts.

In a filing with the Supreme Court, Intel's lawyers said the company is torn. As an investor of billions of dollars into research and development, the company is among the nation's leaders in obtaining patents and wants to protect itself against infringement.

At the same time, Intel also is frequently accused of infringement and wants clearer rules that protect it from small patent-holding companies that have little infrastructure and produce no products.

Attorney Herbert L. Fenster, who represents RIM, said the company is fighting the injunction. But he said an injunction would not end BlackBerry use among at least 1 million of its 3 million users in the United States.

Fenster said he believes federal law prohibits U.S. District Judge James R. Spencer from cutting off BlackBerry service to federal, state and local government users and others who rely on the devices to communicate during a public emergency.

Spencer has set a Feb. 1 deadline for filings on the injunction issue.

The legal fight began in 2001, when NTP sued RIM for infringement. The next year, a jury in Richmond decided that RIM had infringed on patents held by NTP, awarding the company 5.7 percent of U.S. BlackBerry sales. Spencer later increased that rate to 8.55 percent. At last count, the tally of damages and fees had exceeded $200 million and it continues to grow.

Last year, attempts to resolve the case fell apart when Spencer disapproved a settlement in which RIM would have paid $450 million to NTP.

The case is RIM v. NTP, 05-763.

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On the Net:

Supreme Court: http://www.supremecourtus.gov


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060123/ap_on_hi_te/scotus_blackberry_battle
 
NTP vs. RIM is a case that has long bothered me. I'm interested to see what the next move is.
 
Yeah, I think Blackberry will eventually win the case but with alots more stricter guidelines which could be a good thing.
 
Heath said:
Yeah, I think Blackberry will eventually win the case but with alots more stricter guidelines which could be a good thing.


i dont think blackberry wud win the case... blackberry shud leave and set up their own backup "workaround" for BlackBerry devices and their accompanying servers that could be used if necessary--and prevent BlackBerry customers from being disconnected.
 
I've been following this case for a while and it's something that really annoys me. NTP as a company doesn't do anything worthwhile... They don't offer any products or services, all they do is acquire patents and make money by litigating against anyone who attempts to implement what they see as a patent violation. They're not even a real, legitimate business, so the notion that NTP can or should be able to litigate against RIM is completely ridiculous in my eyes.

Software patents in general are fundamentally wrong, and I despise Congress for including it in the DMCA. Patents, in particular software patents, really stifle innovation and all they do is protect the big business from new upstarts moving into their market share.

One should not be able to have a business by coming up with ideas, patenting them, and then charging royalties to anyone who tries to implement it when you don't even have a product yourself. NTP sues RIM for things that it has patents for, and yet NTP doesn't even have any products or services or plans to offer them to compete with RIM for the market? The fact that it's actually legal to do that is completely idiotic.
 
You make perfect sense, Teresh. But from this disgusting legal aspect, the lower and sooner the co negotiates and settles for, the sooner they can be on their way. Or is that too simplistic?
 
Teresh said:
I've been following this case for a while and it's something that really annoys me. NTP as a company doesn't do anything worthwhile... They don't offer any products or services, all they do is acquire patents and make money by litigating against anyone who attempts to implement what they see as a patent violation. They're not even a real, legitimate business, so the notion that NTP can or should be able to litigate against RIM is completely ridiculous in my eyes.

Software patents in general are fundamentally wrong, and I despise Congress for including it in the DMCA. Patents, in particular software patents, really stifle innovation and all they do is protect the big business from new upstarts moving into their market share.

One should not be able to have a business by coming up with ideas, patenting them, and then charging royalties to anyone who tries to implement it when you don't even have a product yourself. NTP sues RIM for things that it has patents for, and yet NTP doesn't even have any products or services or plans to offer them to compete with RIM for the market? The fact that it's actually legal to do that is completely idiotic.

:werd: it is jsut simply stupid....
 
Tousi said:
You make perfect sense, Teresh. But from this disgusting legal aspect, the lower and sooner the co negotiates and settles for, the sooner they can be on their way. Or is that too simplistic?

Too simplistic. RIM wants the NTP patents ruled invalid and preferably NTP's dissolution or the piercing of the corporate veil and having Campagna legally liable for filing illegal patent applications.

If RIM gets NTP's patents declared null, I expect they will then sue NTP for legal fees associated with NTP's frivilous patents and lawsuit to protect said frivilous patents.

Best case scenario is the DMCA gets ruled unconstituctional. But that won't happen since the pockets of everyone in Congress are lined with the gold of tech firms who file frivilous patents and then collect on them, all the while contributing nothing to society.
 
Still making a lotta sense, Teresh/ How far-ranging is your opinion? Can you get it to the highest bastions of........ya know?
 
Tousi said:
Still making a lotta sense, Teresh/ How far-ranging is your opinion? Can you get it to the highest bastions of........ya know?

I've pretty much stated my opinion. Please define 'far-ranging', though.

I don't think patents are inherently evil, I do think though that US patent law needs to be overhauled in order to respect the rights of actual producers and to make software patents illegal.
 
Teresh said:
I've pretty much stated my opinion. Please define 'far-ranging', though.

I don't think patents are inherently evil, I do think though that US patent law needs to be overhauled in order to respect the rights of actual producers and to make software patents illegal.

Teresh, like to your congressional reps....and the appropriate people in the Patents Office....
 
Teresh said:
I've pretty much stated my opinion. Please define 'far-ranging', though.

I don't think patents are inherently evil, I do think though that US patent law needs to be overhauled in order to respect the rights of actual producers and to make software patents illegal.


US Patent law was specifically created with the intention of stimulating economic activity and welfare. The principle behind it is that in exchange for releasing intellectual property into the public domain after twenty years (as opposed to developing an idea and never releasing it at all, like Wendy's does when they hold their top secret recipes top secret), inventors are given a twenty-year protection for their device.

Unfortunately, patent law has become a dirty mess and in many instances it fails to achieve what we intended for it initially. Conversely, there are many good success stories.

I'm mostly with Teresh on this one.
 
EDGE said:
I never like Blackberry. go to hell, RIM.


So you support businesses that exist only to litigate against people and don't actually contribute anything to society?
 
Teresh- (& Endymion)

You raise a couple of good points and I largely agree with your reasoning. However, software patents are here to stay in our legal environment, and are entirely legitimate. My bigger question is, how far should we go in granting software patent protection to methods and concepts?

For example, compression is something that millions take for granted. This concept is not new and has been worked over time by countless mathematicans and has engendered a lot of intellectual energy and capital. As you may have guessed, there are patents for nearly any kind of compression methods out there, such as the .GIF and .JPEG patents. Ditto for video compression. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised to find a lot of software patents covering the Sorenson VP-100/DLink I2Eye units.

I think it is nearly agreeable by the majority of disinterested scientists that compression methods, when invented, should be allowed to seek software patent protection and in turn, encourages further mathematical innovation. But, what about methods that seem to border on the frivolous and obvious? There are a lot of 'junk' patents that seem to hinder technological progress and inhibit free market development.

In short, where should the line be drawn? The obligatory quote, 'I know it when I see a frivolous patent application', just doesn't cut it. :) As it stands now, even the obvious, mundane and frivolous methods and concepts can easily seek software patent protection and all legal benefits it confers.
 
Eyeth said:
My bigger question is, how far should we go in granting software patent protection to methods and concepts?

We should go as far as Europe is, which is to say none at all.

Eyeth said:
For example, compression is something that millions take for granted. This concept is not new and has been worked over time by countless mathematicans and has engendered a lot of intellectual energy and capital. As you may have guessed, there are patents for nearly any kind of compression methods out there, such as the .GIF and .JPEG patents. Ditto for video compression. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised to find a lot of software patents covering the Sorenson VP-100/DLink I2Eye units.

Yeah, and there's a serious problem here with video compression patents. Ever heard of DivX? DivX patented their compression system, which was *almost completely made by the open source community under GPL*. That in itself is fundamentally *illegal* and *immoral*, but the USPTO believes it's acceptable? I'm sorry, but that's just plain stupid. DivX violated their own license and also the license of the people who contributed to OpenDivX. After they illegally closed the source of DivX, GPL'd project was forked to XviD, which DivX has, several times, tried to illegally copy code into DivX from. Why do the XviD developers not sue DivX? Because apparently some idiot in the USPTO allowed DivX to file a patent on something they didn't invent and they very clearly *stole* from other people.

As for the JPEG and GIF patents, it's really not a big deal. PNG is patent-free and is a lot better than both of them since it's smaller than GIF, supports 24 bit color (aka "True color") and is completely lossless. Unfortunately, another software-patent-grubby company is inhibiting the widespread use of PNG, that company of course being Microsoft, whose web browser does not fully support the format.

Software patents are being abused by big businesses to stifle innovation. Europe realised this would happen and decided not to allow them. If the US wants to compete with Europe, it will follow suit and revoke its support of them.
 
Teresh said:
Software patents are being abused by big businesses to stifle innovation. Europe realised this would happen and decided not to allow them. If the US wants to compete with Europe, it will follow suit and revoke its support of them.
To some extent, I agree that there is abuse in the U.S. patent system when it comes to software patents. However, I believe that there should be software patents. Otherwise, there would be nearly no innovation as there'll be no incentive to develop things, when everybody else can copy and freely appropriate for their own profit.

While people need software that is open sourced and free, civilization as a whole needs continuing and further innovation that builds incrementally over time. Software patents are a logical extension of our existing patent system and has contributed to the explosion in computer use by mainstream society.

Thanks to patents and profit minded businesses like Apple, IBM, Microsoft, Google, etc. People now enjoy the Internet, watch streaming video, communicate with each other via email, VOIP, VP-100's, and much, much more! It is along those lines that software patents are here to stay for a long time.

Sorry to disagree with you there; You do make a very reasoned debate and I really want to agree with you. However, I still have faith in the patent system and as far as software patents are concerned. At the same time, I agree that there are abuses and frivolous activities that sully software patents as a whole.

Perhaps Congress can revisit the issue and restrict the scope of software patents to ward off abuse, lessen the load on the USPTO offices, and still encourage much-needed innovation. Maybe the increasing success of open-source software will make the software patent debate pretty much irrelevant in the future.

A Linux user here. :)
 
Eyeth said:
To some extent, I agree that there is abuse in the U.S. patent system when it comes to software patents. However, I believe that there should be software patents. Otherwise, there would be nearly no innovation as there'll be no incentive to develop things, when everybody else can copy and freely appropriate for their own profit.

Oh? Lack of software patents have not inhibited the development of PNG, SVG, XviD, Reiser4, Vorbis, Theora, XFS... To name a few. There's many more things that are innovative and are not patented, and the fact that they're not patented isn't inhibiting their growth.

When you don't patent something, and more than one person implements it and markets it, the product which is better is the one that is accepted by the market. There's a word for this. It's Darwinism. Survival of the fittest. Darwinism causes evolution. All products in order to be market viable must become better than their competition or they will become extinct. Patents inhibit this process and thus actually hurt the economy, and hurt the degree to which products will get better.

Patents, software patents in particular, create a situation where a company can have no competition, whilst producing a mediocre (or even inherently flawed) product, and no one else can do it better because of the patent.

True capitalism would have no patent law at all and all products would be judged on their quality and value.
 
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