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Right, but would they have used them in the same way and ended up in the same place? There's no way to know. It's possible that someone's success is a result of the fact that they were bullied, and how they responded to that specific situation. The ability to cope does not imply that they would...

If you are willing to admit individual human error on the part of the test-makers, why do you adamantly refuse to admit the possibility of it existing in the test-takers? Yes, the people who made the test could have made it wrong. You don't seem to understand that I've been saying that the whole...

Funny, because they are all that was considered by the city when it threw out the results. If you want to discuss whether or not they made a poor decision (which was the original point of this thread), then that would be all you could consider. It doesn't definitively indicate a problem...

Here's my statistical analysis, you already said it before. The mean was right around a 70. Looks right to me. As I said many times, I am in favor of not focusing on race since it is so easily misinterpreted, you are the one that is hung up on it. As far as I'm concerned, 77 men took a test, and...

Something that you can say absolutely nothing definitive about, since we don't have any information about the test, or what would be required to show that one is qualified for promotion. First of all, this completely contradicts posts where you said that you were not only considering race...

Because you quoted mine first when you quoted them. My point was that she said the firefighters made this about race, and that's clearly false. The city made this about race since that was what made them decide to throw out the results. By that logic, any black person who stood up for their...

Exactly, she said something wrong, and I corrected her. You then quoted them out of order. No, the firefighters responded to a situation that the city made about race. There is no evidence, and no reason to doubt that all materials were made equally accessible. As was stated in some of...

First of all, she originally stated something that was untrue in the second post you quoted, and I responded with the first post you quoted. You can't just take them, switch the order, and say she already said it. The order of events is still important, which is one of the big problems with this...

Exactly, and that's why it's such a huge problem. The idea that all races and ethnicities will be spread evenly in results ignores the fact that there is a strong tie between race and socio-economic status. Often, the only way to make those tests "fair" is to "dumb them down", because they...

Yup, that's all you need to conduct your "extensive analysis" that considers nothing but race. Sounds about right to me. The test itself and any other factors are completely ignored by your "analysis". This is why any "statistical analysis" that you come up with will, and can only be, nothing...

Again, you have failed to actually respond to the points raised. Nobody brought up gender, what we did bring up was that your "analysis" can and will only consider race, which you claimed was untrue and have yet to explain or provide any evidence of. Also, the white firefighters filed their...

Who said anything about gender? I'm not sure who you think you're showing up with your clever "Duh!" about something nobody mentioned... Also, maybe you'd like to share how your "extensive analysis" incorporates anything other than race, since you have no other data available. If it's the only...

And yet you still haven't provided any reason that race should be the only "cultural" issue considered when comparing the scores. You have also not explained what types of cultural differences there would be between a group of men who most likely grew up and were taught in the same area and...

Yeah, that's kind of what I meant. On TV, everything is always so fast, and they always just happen to have someone's DNA on file because of their job, or previous arrests, etc... I was saying that maybe having a larger database would make it more possible to speed up that process (although I...

I'm curious, how do you think it would be abused? I mean, the first thing that came to mind for me is shows like CSI, SVU, all of those, where they collect DNA from a crime scene, and have a suspect in like, a day. I mean, if you commit a crime and they can find you because your DNA is in their...

I don't think anyone is saying she can't believe what she wants, simply that voicing those beliefs the way she did is not likely to win her many pageants.

:laugh2: :laugh2: I don't know, jillio, I feel like I read somewhere that there's room for interpretation in everything....

There's a big difference between comparing race in a group of men who most likely grew up in the same area, went to the same schools, and work in the same firehouse, and people on different continents. Also, saying that there is a disparity in the number of people in a certain field is not the...

First of all, no we don't know that. Again, unless you have some hidden knowledge about the test results that you're just choosing not to share with the rest of us, we know absolutely nothing about the distribution of anything, or what they considered normal. Also, let me point out that once...

Well clearly you're missing the point, darkdog, there is no range. Nothing factors into the distribution of people on the exam except race. :roll: ;) Also, jillio, as I've said many many times already, we have absolutely no information about the distribution or variance in the scores except...