Iran will do military exercise on how to close Strait of Hormuz - Page 10

**saywhatkid** · 12-20-2011, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheWriteAlex

I didn't do that. I only added the bold wording. Not sure how it happened, either. I was a little confused, too, but I was also too lazy go back and change it.

Your assumption and response speaks volumes about you.

I am not an atheist. I am against willful ignorance. I've stated my beliefs many times.

My assumption was based on history. I was wrong. My apologies.

**saywhatkid** · 12-20-2011, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheWriteAlex

Funny how you two are both so outraged about this. I'll go back and change it for you if it means that much to you.

I wasn't outraged. I just was impressed you felt the need to lowercase those words, since you would have expected the response it received. Now that I was told it was not your intention, relax.

**TWA** · 12-20-2011, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saywhatkid

My assumption was based on history. I was wrong. My apologies.

Check out the mortality thread for a very brief idea of my position and beliefs.

**saywhatkid** · 12-20-2011, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheWriteAlex

Check out the mortality thread for a very brief idea of my position and beliefs.

I have. Thanks for your honesty.

**Reba** · 12-20-2011, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheWriteAlex

Funny how you two are both so outraged about this. I'll go back and change it for you if it means that much to you.

I never said that I was outraged. I would just appreciate my quotes not be tampered with.

jillio · 12-20-2011, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

Those are the three major movements but not the only ones. For example (not all inclusive), there's also Reconstruction, Ultra-Orthodox, Liberal, and Lubavitcher Chasidim. However, the number of movements isn't the point. The point is, there is not just one unanimous movement, and within each movement there isn't unanimous agreement. In worldwide population, they are a minority number, so one wouldn't expect as many movements as larger groups have.

OK.

More people, more groups, and some are very small groups at that.

Are you starting a new topic? My post wasn't about "where the most disagreement on schools of belief lies." It's not a contest.

My post was about the fact that Christians aren't the only people who have theological differences amongst themselves. Yet, they seem to get the most postings from non-believers disputing what Christians believe. I haven't seen a spate of posts referring to the Torah and Koran as books of myths written by men, or calling Jewish and Muslim posters haters for stating their beliefs. (I certainly don't want to see that happen to them either.)

I think the most important point, in terms of what was being discussed (Biblical interpretation and disagreement) is that there are 5000+ Protestant denominations. Just within the Protestant group. Quite a lot of disagreement going on there, and certainly much more proportionately than for the other religions you mentioned.

jillio · 12-20-2011, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beowulf

I never criticize religion. Just the loudmouths.

Huge difference. It just so happens that those who seem to subscribe to a particular religion are loud.

jillio · 12-20-2011, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

If you're going to quote me, please don't tamper with the original quotation. You're not my editor, and my post didn't need fixing.

"Not always. I've noted several threads where the first mention of God, Bible, or Christian was made by a non-believer, and usually not in a good way."

A non-believer in what?

kokonut · 12-20-2011, 05:54 PM

US study says Christians one third of world population

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/one-third-w...184225584.html

**Reba** · 12-20-2011, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

I think the most important point, in terms of what was being discussed (Biblical interpretation and disagreement) is that there are 5000+ Protestant denominations. Just within the Protestant group. Quite a lot of disagreement going on there, and certainly much more proportionately than for the other religions you mentioned.

Within what you call the Protestant group, the differences aren't always disagreements in doctrine but just preferences. I'm a member of an independent Baptist church but there are many other churches that I wouldn't have a problem attending or even joining, throughout the world, that don't call themselves "Baptist."

What you call disagreement, others call the priesthood of the believer and church autonomy.

Also, any person or group is free to call himself or itself Christian since there is no worldwide agency on earth that can regulate who uses that name. There is no trademark on "Christian."

**Reba** · 12-20-2011, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

A non-believer in what?

God, Bible, Christ.

jillio · 12-20-2011, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kokonut

US study says Christians one third of world population

US study says Christians one third of world population - Yahoo! News

Too late. Numbers have already been posted from the actual sources.

And, of all the different schools of belief in Christianity, Protestantism has 5000+ denominations.

And they all insist that they are the only ones that have it right, lol.

jillio · 12-20-2011, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

God, Bible, Christ.

Many billions of people believe in God. They are not non-believers. They simply don't subscribe to your beliefs. So, Alex was spot on in his fify.

jillio · 12-20-2011, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

Within what you call the Protestant group, the differences aren't always disagreements in doctrine but just preferences. I'm a member of an independent Baptist church but there are many other churches that I wouldn't have a problem attending or even joining, throughout the world, that don't call themselves "Baptist."

What you call disagreement, others call the priesthood of the believer and church autonomy.

Also, any person or group is free to call himself or itself Christian since there is no worldwide agency on earth that can regulate who uses that name. There is no trademark on "Christian."

Why are all the different denominations necessary if it is not a disagreement over doctrine? Come on, Reba. You are not that naive. Someone says, 'Oh, no! I don't believe that is the way this Bible verse should be interpreted. I don't agree with that practice. I will start my own church based on what I believe the one true interpretation to be." It has been happening since Martin Luther disagreed with the Catholics.

**Reba** · 12-20-2011, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

Many billions of people believe in God. They are not non-believers. They simply don't subscribe to your beliefs. So, Alex was spot on in his fify.

Many billions of people aren't posting at AD. The ones I'm talking about have stated in their posts that they don't believe in God. That makes them non-believers. It has nothing to do with my beliefs, so Alex was wrong-o.

jillio · 12-20-2011, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

Many billions of people aren't posting at AD. The ones I'm talking about have stated in their posts that they don't believe in God. That makes them non-believers. It has nothing to do with my beliefs, so Alex was wrong-o.

Hmmm...I have only seen 2 people identify themselves as atheists in AD.

But the way you classified "believers" was according to your particular belief in the trinity. Many billions of people do not accept the premise of the trinity, and yet they believe and are devout followers of God. Using "non" to categoroize them instantly creates a negative, as if they are missing something they should have.

**Reba** · 12-20-2011, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

Why are all the different denominations necessary if it is not a disagreement over doctrine? Come on, Reba. You are not that naive. Someone says, 'Oh, no! I don't believe that is the way this Bible verse should be interpreted. I don't agree with that practice. I will start my own church based on what I believe the one true interpretation to be." It has been happening since Martin Luther disagreed with the Catholics.

I didn't say "all," did I?

No, not all differences are doctrinal. Some are cultural, some are political, some are preferences. People can start denominations for whatever reason they want. Who's going to stop them? Not all practices have to do with doctrine. That doesn't mean none are doctrinal.

**deafskeptic** · 12-20-2011, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

Why are all the different denominations necessary if it is not a disagreement over doctrine? Come on, Reba. You are not that naive. Someone says, 'Oh, no! I don't believe that is the way this Bible verse should be interpreted. I don't agree with that practice. I will start my own church based on what I believe the one true interpretation to be." It has been happening since Martin Luther disagreed with the Catholics.

Let us take the Baptists alone for example: primitive Baptists, Independent Baptists, American Baptists... and that's a partial list. I have come to realize that my Grandfather Smith may not have been a Southern Baptist as my mother claims.

**deafskeptic** · 12-20-2011, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deafskeptic

Let us take the Baptists alone for example: primitive Baptists, Independent Baptists, American Baptists... and that's a partial list. I have come to realize that my Grandfather Smith may not have been a Southern Baptist as my mother claims.

I think that perhaps I should have left out that line about family.

**Reba** · 12-20-2011, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

Hmmm...I have only seen 2 people identify themselves as atheists in AD.

I don't know if they are identified as atheists but they stated things such as "I don't believe in God" or "God is a myth." That seems clear to me.

Is that some kind of a problem for you?

Since I didn't name any names, and I don't keep a list of who has self-identified as an atheist, and I don't read every single post at AD, I'll take your word that there are only two identified atheists at AD. Even two can make many posts.

Quote:

But the way you classified "believers" was according to your particular belief in the trinity. Many billions of people do not accept the premise of the trinity, and yet they believe and are devout followers of God. Using "non" to categoroize them instantly creates a negative, as if they are missing something they should have.

Someone who doesn't believe in the Bible, and has stated so, is a non-believer in the Bible. Someone who doesn't believe in God, and has posted such, is a non-believer of God. Someone who doesn't believe in Jesus Christ, and has said so in a post, is a non-believer of Jesus Christ. Those are the posted topics I referred to.

If the posters don't believe in those things, then why should they mind being referred to as non-believers?

Are you their spokesman?

kokonut · 12-20-2011, 07:38 PM

Tsk...

jillio · 12-20-2011, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

I didn't say "all," did I?

No, not all differences are doctrinal. Some are cultural, some are political, some are preferences. People can start denominations for whatever reason they want. Who's going to stop them? Not all practices have to do with doctrine. That doesn't mean none are doctrinal.

Cultural and political differences, when applied to religion, are simply differences in interpretations and beliefs. So it does really come down to doctrine.

jillio · 12-20-2011, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

I don't know if they are identified as atheists but they stated things such as "I don't believe in God" or "God is a myth." That seems clear to me.

Is that some kind of a problem for you?

Since I didn't name any names, and I don't keep a list of who has self-identified as an atheist, and I don't read every single post at AD, I'll take your word that there are only two identified atheists at AD. Even two can make many posts.

Someone who doesn't believe in the Bible, and has stated so, is a non-believer in the Bible. Someone who doesn't believe in God, and has posted such, is a non-believer of God. Someone who doesn't believe in Jesus Christ, and has said so in a post, is a non-believer of Jesus Christ. Those are the posted topics I referred to.

If the posters don't believe in those things, then why should they mind being referred to as non-believers?

Are you their spokesman?

Ahhh...but you just said "non-believer".

You had to be questioned before you identified your definition of a non-believer as someone who did not believe in the trinity. I still think Alex hit it on the head.

I don't know that anyone minds being referred to as a "non-believer". Just pointing out that you have a specific definition attached to whom you consider a "non-believer" based on whether they subscribe to your particular belief system or not.

Yes, I am.

**Reba** · 12-20-2011, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

Cultural and political differences, when applied to religion, are simply differences in interpretations and beliefs. So it does really come down to doctrine.

Are you talking about your religion or mine?

DeafCaroline · 12-20-2011, 08:07 PM

About Iran and the Strait Hormuz...ahem...just saw this today: Iran squeezes UAE with stopping imports - Tehran Times

"Experts say the cut of trade relations will harm the UAE largely as the Arab state’s exports to Iran are four times greater than its imports from the Islamic Republic.

According the statistics released by Iran’s Customs Administration, the value of trade ties between the two neighbors over the last eight months stood at around $15 billion, of which 12 billion dollars were the United Arab Emirates’ exports to Iran. The figure shows that a loss of Iran’s market would harm the UAE economy.

Iran’s punitive measure against the UAE, although is said to be temporary, shows that the Islamic Republic has the capability to take pre-emptive steps against any hostile activities. "

**Reba** · 12-20-2011, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

Ahhh...but you just said "non-believer".

You had to be questioned before you identified your definition of a non-believer as someone who did not believe in the trinity. I still think Alex hit it on the head.

No, it means that some people either don't know how to read or choose to see what they want to see. The subjects of non-belief were right there in the same sentence. What else would it refer to? Non-belief in Martians?

Again, you're trying to make hash out of nothing.

Quote:

I don't know that anyone minds being referred to as a "non-believer". Just pointing out that you have a specific definition attached to whom you consider a "non-believer" based on whether they subscribe to your particular belief system or not.

Since I didn't refer to anyone by name, and since "anyone" doesn't mind, then I guess you can rest easy tonight.

Quote:

Yes, I am.

I wasn't aware that you were the official spokesman for un-believers. I missed that announcement. I didn't even know that they needed one.

**Reba** · 12-20-2011, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeafCaroline

About Iran and the Strait Hormuz...ahem...just saw this today: Iran squeezes UAE with stopping imports - Tehran Times

"Experts say the cut of trade relations will harm the UAE largely as the Arab state’s exports to Iran are four times greater than its imports from the Islamic Republic.

According the statistics released by Iran’s Customs Administration, the value of trade ties between the two neighbors over the last eight months stood at around $15 billion, of which 12 billion dollars were the United Arab Emirates’ exports to Iran. The figure shows that a loss of Iran’s market would harm the UAE economy.

Iran’s punitive measure against the UAE, although is said to be temporary, shows that the Islamic Republic has the capability to take pre-emptive steps against any hostile activities. "

How dare you get us back on topic!

j/k

**TXgolfer** · 12-20-2011, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeafCaroline

About Iran and the Strait Hormuz...ahem...just saw this today: Iran squeezes UAE with stopping imports - Tehran Times

"Experts say the cut of trade relations will harm the UAE largely as the Arab state’s exports to Iran are four times greater than its imports from the Islamic Republic.

According the statistics released by Iran’s Customs Administration, the value of trade ties between the two neighbors over the last eight months stood at around $15 billion, of which 12 billion dollars were the United Arab Emirates’ exports to Iran. The figure shows that a loss of Iran’s market would harm the UAE economy.

Iran’s punitive measure against the UAE, although is said to be temporary, shows that the Islamic Republic has the capability to take pre-emptive steps against any hostile activities. "

It's interesting to watch as things start to develop.....it's like reality TV or something.

jillio · 12-20-2011, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TXgolfer

It's interesting to watch as things start to develop.....it's like reality TV or something.

Reality TV? That is a misnomer.

**TWA** · 12-20-2011, 09:29 PM

Reba, I have never, not once, on AD stated that I don't believe in God. (Though I object to the term "atheist" being referred to almost as a dirty word.) I just don't believe in a Christian construction of God in man's image. I challenge anyone to find a post where I have said otherwise.

Why I changed your wording(aside from the tongue-in-cheek aspect) is because I do not like how you took ownership of the verb "believe." Your diction suggested that anyone who didn't believe in what you believe in is not just someone who believes differently, but does not believe at all; is not on the same level as you; or spiritually inferior, if you will. That's just not the case. I know your religion teaches you otherwise, but you will just have to accept that you are only allowed to say that in your own house of worship and amongst those who feel the same way. To call anyone a "non-believer" because they do not believe what you believe is bigotry and ignorance. I will not tolerate it, and I will be aggressive at attacking that anywhere in a public forum. To do otherwise would be to disobey one of the categorical imperatives by which I live.

12-20-2011, 05:54 PM	#279 (permalink)
kokonut Registered User Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 15,348	US study says Christians one third of world population http://ca.news.yahoo.com/one-third-w...184225584.html __________________ Before AD. After AD. "Restriction on free thought and free speech is the most dangerous of all subversions. It is the one un-American act that could most easily defeat us." -Thurgood Marshall, former Supreme Court Justice "... turns out they are telling the truth."

12-20-2011, 07:38 PM	#291 (permalink)
kokonut Registered User Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 15,348	Tsk... __________________ Before AD. After AD. "Restriction on free thought and free speech is the most dangerous of all subversions. It is the one un-American act that could most easily defeat us." -Thurgood Marshall, former Supreme Court Justice "... turns out they are telling the truth."

12-20-2011, 09:29 PM	#300 (permalink)
TWA Premium Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 5,374	Reba, I have never, not once, on AD stated that I don't believe in God. (Though I object to the term "atheist" being referred to almost as a dirty word.) I just don't believe in a Christian construction of God in man's image. I challenge anyone to find a post where I have said otherwise. Why I changed your wording(aside from the tongue-in-cheek aspect) is because I do not like how you took ownership of the verb "believe." Your diction suggested that anyone who didn't believe in what you believe in is not just someone who believes differently, but does not believe at all; is not on the same level as you; or spiritually inferior, if you will. That's just not the case. I know your religion teaches you otherwise, but you will just have to accept that you are only allowed to say that in your own house of worship and amongst those who feel the same way. To call anyone a "non-believer" because they do not believe what you believe is bigotry and ignorance. I will not tolerate it, and I will be aggressive at attacking that anywhere in a public forum. To do otherwise would be to disobey one of the categorical imperatives by which I live. jillio and deafskeptic like this. Last edited by TWA; 12-20-2011 at 10:12 PM.

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

Today
Deafness	Sponsored Links __________________ This advertising will not be shown in this way to registered members. Register your free account today and become a member on AllDeaf.com

12-20-2011, 08:07 PM	#295 (permalink)
DeafCaroline Registered User Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 4,889	About Iran and the Strait Hormuz...ahem...just saw this today: Iran squeezes UAE with stopping imports - Tehran Times "Experts say the cut of trade relations will harm the UAE largely as the Arab state’s exports to Iran are four times greater than its imports from the Islamic Republic. According the statistics released by Iran’s Customs Administration, the value of trade ties between the two neighbors over the last eight months stood at around $15 billion, of which 12 billion dollars were the United Arab Emirates’ exports to Iran. The figure shows that a loss of Iran’s market would harm the UAE economy. Iran’s punitive measure against the UAE, although is said to be temporary, shows that the Islamic Republic has the capability to take pre-emptive steps against any hostile activities. "