Declaration of Occupy Wall Street - Page 73

**TXgolfer** · 11-21-2011, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

First.... Scott Olsen... and now Kayvan Sabeghi. Both are veterans. Sabeghi was U.S. Army Ranger and an Iraq War veteran.

ATTENTION!: New Video Just Released Showing The Unprovoked Beating Of U.S. Army Ranger - YouTube

good job... beating down US Army Ranger who fought for our rights to free speech and defended our country from tyranny.

Yeah right, "Just returning from dinner". I'm sure he always wears a bandana to dinner. And he is standing toe to toe with police and saluting them.....I am sure he is just trying to clarify things.

Had he obeyed the police, he wouldn't be injured. Simple.

**Banjo** · 11-21-2011, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

Well, she does make a good point right there.

**Banjo** · 11-21-2011, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

First.... Scott Olsen... and now Kayvan Sabeghi. Both are veterans. Sabeghi was U.S. Army Ranger and an Iraq War veteran.

ATTENTION!: New Video Just Released Showing The Unprovoked Beating Of U.S. Army Ranger - YouTube

It's astonishing how they just go around beating people up like that. It must be nice to be an American because of all of their rights they are entitled to...

Oh wait...

**TWA** · 11-21-2011, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TXgolfer

Yeah right, "Just returning from dinner". I'm sure he always wears a bandana to dinner. And he is standing toe to toe with police and saluting them.....I am sure he is just trying to clarify things.

Had he obeyed the police, he wouldn't be injured. Simple.

Oh, so you are being a scumbag again, eh? Belittling and mocking our war veterans, again?

Your postings on this thread shows how much you really care about this country and the people who serve it.

**Beowulf** · 11-21-2011, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheWriteAlex

Oh, so you are being a scumbag again, eh? Belittling and mocking our war veterans, again?

Your postings on this thread shows how much you really care about this country and the people who serve it.

Any bets on whether he will step into a gas chamber just because they told him to, and nicely?

**Jiro** · 11-21-2011, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TXgolfer

Yeah right, "Just returning from dinner". I'm sure he always wears a bandana to dinner. And he is standing toe to toe with police and saluting them.....I am sure he is just trying to clarify things.

Had he obeyed the police, he wouldn't be injured. Simple.

Had police obeys the law... this wouldn't happen.

**TXgolfer** · 11-21-2011, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheWriteAlex

Oh, so you are being a scumbag again, eh? Belittling and mocking our war veterans, again?

Your postings on this thread shows how much you really care about this country and the people who serve it.

Even veterans have to obey the law.

**Jiro** · 11-21-2011, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TXgolfer

Even veterans have to obey the law.

Occupy Oakland: Recording of Police Beating Iraq Vet Kayvan Sabeghi Released [VIDEO]

Quote:

Sabeghi can be seen walking in front of a line of police officers in riot gear. The footage then becomes shadowy. Shortly after, light comes across the screen again and a police officer yells and points for him to move. Then he begins beating Sabeghi with his baton.

The officer follows Sabeghi as he runs away, continuing to hit him, as the man behind the camera yells "Stop!" Sabeghi then appears to fall to the ground. He was arrested later.

The individual who recorded the footage was Neil Rivas, an artist and photographer. Rivas said that the incident occurred around midnight.

"It was uncalled for," said Rivas. "There were no curse words. He was telling them he was a war vet, a resident of Oakland, a business owner."

"It was pretty much just Kayvan and myself right there at that moment when he got beat," Rivas said.

"I couldn't help but start yelling out for them to stop. He was not fighting back; he was moving away from the officer. It did not feel good."

"I saw him being taken down to the ground and I tried to keep my camera focused on that as well, but they were pretty quick at setting up a barricade between myself and Kayvan at that point. I was shoved out of the way, and I had several guns pointed my way," he said.

"I remember specifically one officer right in front of me having his gun pointed point blank at me."

Sabeghi claimed that he was protesting in a non-violent manner before he was arrested. He told The Guardian that he had been trying to leave the main area where police clashes were occurring and go home before he was beaten and arrested on suspicion of resisting arrest.

He also claimed that it took hours before he was taken to the hospital, even though he complained of severe internal pain.

Police told the Guardian that they are currently investigating the situation. However, police state that they were responding to a small group of "anarchists," reports Reuters. These individuals were vandalizing property, setting fires, and breaking into buildings.

Sabeghi is the second Iraq vet to be injured at an Occupy protest. A week prior to the Sabeghi beating, Marine veteran Scott Olsen, 24, suffered a skull fracture during a separate Occupy Oakland clash.

right. how lawful

Oakland Police Department has been nothing but a bunch of vigilante crooks. My friend lives in there and provides legal assistance to the poor who have been wrongfully arrested or arrested on trumped up charges. It's just a matter of time till Oakland PD gets disbanded and/or taken over by County Sheriffs

**Jiro** · 11-21-2011, 01:06 PM

**Jiro** · 11-21-2011, 01:11 PM

California campus police chief on leave after pepper-spraying - CNN.com

Quote:

The police chief at the University of California at Davis has been placed on administrative leave while officials investigate officers' use of pepper spray against protesters, the university said in a statement Monday.

"As I have gathered more information about the events that took place on our Quad on Friday, it has become clear to me that this is a necessary step toward restoring trust on our campus," UC Davis Chancellor Linda Katehi said in the statement.

On Sunday the university said it had placed two police officers on administrative leave after video of them pepper-spraying non-violent protesters at point-blank range sparked outrage at school officials.

**TXgolfer** · 11-21-2011, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

Occupy Oakland: Recording of Police Beating Iraq Vet Kayvan Sabeghi Released [VIDEO]

right. how lawful

Oakland Police Department has been nothing but a bunch of vigilante crooks. My friend lives in there and provides legal assistance to the poor who have been wrongfully arrested or arrested on trumped up charges. It's just a matter of time till Oakland PD gets disbanded and/or taken over by County Sheriffs

Meh, I think the video speaks for itself. That looks like a guy taunting police to me *shrug* IMO the witness is lying. You are welcome to your opinion.

**TWA** · 11-21-2011, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TXgolfer

Meh, I think the video speaks for itself. That looks like a guy taunting police to me *shrug* IMO the witness is lying. You are welcome to your opinion.

And what did the cop look like to you? A restrained, calm excellent example of law enforcement?

**Jiro** · 11-21-2011, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TXgolfer

Meh, I think the video speaks for itself. That looks like a guy taunting police to me *shrug* IMO the witness is lying. You are welcome to your opinion.

what looks like to me is a pissed-off Iraq war veteran who was frustrated and disappointed with how Oakland PD conducted itself because this was not a country that he fought for and defended.

Oakland PD is a bunch of rejects who couldn't hack it into Army. That's why they surrounded one guy and beat him senselessly.... Rodney King style. I suppose they felt it was necessary to chase him and beat him and continue beating him.

Was there a need to surround him to beat him?

**TXgolfer** · 11-21-2011, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

what looks like to me is a pissed-off Iraq war veteran who was frustrated and disappointed with how Oakland PD conducted itself because this was not a country that he fought for and defended.

Oakland PD is a bunch of rejects who couldn't hack it into Army. That's why they surrounded one guy and beat him senselessly.... Rodney King style. I suppose they felt it was necessary to chase him and beat him and continue beating him.

Was there a need to surround him to beat him?

Perhaps he should have expressed his frustration in a voting booth or in a letter to Mayor Quan. Instead he illegally expressed his frustration by confronting police. Actions have consequences.

**Jiro** · 11-21-2011, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TXgolfer

Perhaps he should have expressed his frustration in a voting booth or in a letter to Mayor Quan. Instead he illegally expressed his frustration by confronting police. Actions have consequences.

illegally? you're joking, right? this gives right for police to legally beat down A PERSON too and continue on beating?

**TWA** · 11-21-2011, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TXgolfer

Perhaps he should have expressed his frustration in a voting booth or in a letter to Mayor Quan. Instead he illegally expressed his frustration by confronting police. Actions have consequences.

Are you really an American?

**TXgolfer** · 11-21-2011, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

illegally? you're joking, right? this gives right for police to legally beat down A PERSON too and continue on beating?

The law clearly says you have to obey police. He didn't. In fact his hands are in his pockets. How are they to know he doesn't have a weapon? Obviously it was a tense situation, you can see the fire burning in the background.

**Daredevel7** · 11-21-2011, 02:03 PM

5 years ago, I was pulled over for violating the "Move Over" law. After the cop went back to his car with my driver's license and registration, I waited for well over 20 minutes shivering in my old Mazda Miata (it was Feb), for the cop to come back. Why didn't I start up the car to get heat?

Because I didn't want TXGolfer to say "Well, the law clearly says that you have to obey the police. She didn't. It's a shame that she didn't hear the cop on the loudspeaker saying "Shut off the engine or you will be arrested," but how did the cop not know that she didn't intend on driving away? How often does stuff like this happen anyway?"

DeafCaroline · 11-21-2011, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

illegally? you're joking, right? this gives right for police to legally beat down A PERSON too and continue on beating?

Excessive force is illegal. It's supposed to be used only if there is actual cause to believe violence would be committed against the cop or against someone else.

Saluting a cop is not a justifiable excuse for a beating.

**Banjo** · 11-21-2011, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

That's a great way of putting it.

**deafskeptic** · 11-21-2011, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeafCaroline

Excessive force is illegal. It's supposed to be used only if there is actual cause to believe violence would be committed against the cop or against someone else.

Saluting a cop is not a justifiable excuse for a beating.

Did you say saluting? I don't know if the protester was being sarcastic or not - either way, this doesn't warrant a beating at all.

DeafCaroline · 11-21-2011, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deafskeptic

Did you say saluting? I don't know if the protester was being sarcastic or not - either way, this doesn't warrant a beating at all.

responding to what TXGolder said "And he is standing toe to toe with police and saluting them.....I am sure he is just trying to clarify things."

And secondly, he took his hands out of his pockets long before the beating started.

Current Tv posted a video of the beating on youtube - the police brutality was truly out of line. this one single guy got beaten up by several armed cops wielding batons. Way way overboard.

**deafskeptic** · 11-21-2011, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeafCaroline

responding to what TXGolder said "And he is standing toe to toe with police and saluting them.....I am sure he is just trying to clarify things."

And secondly, he took his hands out of his pockets long before the beating started.

Current Tv posted a video of the beating on youtube - the police brutality was truly out of line. this one single guy got beaten up by several armed cops wielding batons. Way way overboard.

Wow, just saw the tape. That cop was way over the line. I thought all of them would decend on that vet for a few secs there.

**Banjo** · 11-21-2011, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deafskeptic

Wow, just saw the tape. That cop was way over the line. I thought all of them would decend on that vet for a few secs there.

I don't know how anyone can defend the cops on this one. I watched the whole thing and the beating was completely unjustified for.

**TWA** · 11-21-2011, 02:38 PM

The main problem with police in this country is that they are not intelligent and lack critical thinking skills, even after training. That's the problem with all the LEO responses to OWS protests. Rather than thinking critically and assessing the situation and how to best preserve everyone's safety--not just their own--they choose brute force and react emotionally. In almost every altercation, it is the police that escalate the intensity and push it to a violent conflict. You can see it in every single video on this thread. The cops are just as angry and combative as the protesters. That is despicable.

**Jiro** · 11-21-2011, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TXgolfer

The law clearly says you have to obey police. He didn't.

The law clearly stated that you are not required to obey unlawful order. The law clearly stated that excessive force is illegal.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TXgolfer

In fact his hands are in his pockets. How are they to know he doesn't have a weapon? Obviously it was a tense situation, you can see the fire burning in the background.

the situation wasn't revolving around with his hands in his pockets. you can see the cop was yelling at him, pointing - move away or something.

cops should not be chasing after him to gang up on him and then continue beating on him. that is excessive force and that is illegal.

VacationGuy234 · 11-21-2011, 03:34 PM

Both sides have good points in the case of the veteran, police used excessive force and the people who are told to leave the park are supposed to leave. Why are the police wrong, because it is excessive use of force. Why are the protesters wrong, because the park is not theirs and they are supposed to obey the police.

Honestly, you're not going to stop police brutality or get your point across by getting beat up. It generates sympathy and money but it doesn't change anything.

I think the protesters would get further if they rallied people to vote for someone who will support what (if they can come to agreement) they are protesting instead of causing confrontation. It's like you are asking a woman for a date without telling her what time or day to go on one. It's not enough to just ask for change you have to be specific in what you want.
There is no need to state the obvious that the system is broken, everybody knows it.

The banks and the government are not going to change because you can't change human nature. And, our system is setup in a way to work with human nature which makes trying to change it prohibitive.

**Jiro** · 11-21-2011, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheWriteAlex

The main problem with police in this country is that they are not intelligent and lack critical thinking skills, even after training. That's the problem with all the LEO responses to OWS protests. Rather than thinking critically and assessing the situation and how to best preserve everyone's safety--not just their own--they choose brute force and react emotionally. In almost every altercation, it is the police that escalate the intensity and push it to a violent conflict. You can see it in every single video on this thread. The cops are just as angry and combative as the protesters. That is despicable.

I have a serious problem with how OWS conducted itself but majority of OWS protests were lawful and peaceful. I have a much more serious problem with how police conducted itself. They are more combative and violent than OWS. They were beating down non-violent people, illegally pepper spraying, and illegally arresting people protesting in a lawful manner.

How ironic is that?

They should listen to retired Captain Raymond Lewis (whom NYPD arrested) and Hipster Cop for advice on how to intelligently and calmly communicate with OWS to ensure that their protest is done in a lawful, safe manner.

Anybody who willfully ignored a lawful manner of protest should be arrested but should not be getting a beat down for it because it's illegal and Egyptian.

**Jiro** · 11-21-2011, 03:47 PM

and any cop who unlawfully and/or unsafely conducted oneself against non-violent protestors should be arrested and permanently removed from the job.

Recall this?

PEACEFUL FEMALE PROTESTORS PENNED IN THE STREET AND MACED!- #OccupyWallStreet - YouTube

This is the guy who did that.

Quote:

On October 18th, New York Times reported that the Deputy Inspector Bologna was disciplined by losing 10 vacation days after the pepper spraying incident was reviewed by the NYPD Internal Affairs Bureau. According to an official statement by the chief spokesman Paul J. Browne, the investigation determined that Bologna used the pepper spray outside departmental guidelines, which doesn’t allow for its use in “disorder control.”

and get this....

Quote:

According to an article in The Guardian[27], Bologna was accused of misconduct in 2004 at the Republican national convention protests for “false arrest and civil rights violations.”

Why is this fascist officer still wearing a badge that represents law and order while adhering democracy ideal? I do not know but this is a typical corruption in NYPD.

**Jiro** · 11-21-2011, 03:58 PM

11-21-2011, 01:06 PM	#2169 (permalink)
Jiro Aparecium Deletrius Legil Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: The Soprano State Posts: 60,512	__________________ - Don't forget to buy Jiro's Special Edition Sunglasses for $19.95

11-21-2011, 02:38 PM	#2185 (permalink)
TWA Premium Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 5,374	The main problem with police in this country is that they are not intelligent and lack critical thinking skills, even after training. That's the problem with all the LEO responses to OWS protests. Rather than thinking critically and assessing the situation and how to best preserve everyone's safety--not just their own--they choose brute force and react emotionally. In almost every altercation, it is the police that escalate the intensity and push it to a violent conflict. You can see it in every single video on this thread. The cops are just as angry and combative as the protesters. That is despicable. deafskeptic likes this.

11-21-2011, 03:58 PM	#2190 (permalink)
Jiro Aparecium Deletrius Legil Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: The Soprano State Posts: 60,512	jillio and deafskeptic like this. __________________ - Don't forget to buy Jiro's Special Edition Sunglasses for $19.95

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11-21-2011, 02:03 PM	#2178 (permalink)
Daredevel7 Adrenaline Junky Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Huntsville, AL Posts: 4,341	5 years ago, I was pulled over for violating the "Move Over" law. After the cop went back to his car with my driver's license and registration, I waited for well over 20 minutes shivering in my old Mazda Miata (it was Feb), for the cop to come back. Why didn't I start up the car to get heat? Because I didn't want TXGolfer to say "Well, the law clearly says that you have to obey the police. She didn't. It's a shame that she didn't hear the cop on the loudspeaker saying "Shut off the engine or you will be arrested," but how did the cop not know that she didn't intend on driving away? How often does stuff like this happen anyway?"

11-21-2011, 03:34 PM	#2187 (permalink)
VacationGuy234 Registered User Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 2,794	Both sides have good points in the case of the veteran, police used excessive force and the people who are told to leave the park are supposed to leave. Why are the police wrong, because it is excessive use of force. Why are the protesters wrong, because the park is not theirs and they are supposed to obey the police. Honestly, you're not going to stop police brutality or get your point across by getting beat up. It generates sympathy and money but it doesn't change anything. I think the protesters would get further if they rallied people to vote for someone who will support what (if they can come to agreement) they are protesting instead of causing confrontation. It's like you are asking a woman for a date without telling her what time or day to go on one. It's not enough to just ask for change you have to be specific in what you want. There is no need to state the obvious that the system is broken, everybody knows it. The banks and the government are not going to change because you can't change human nature. And, our system is setup in a way to work with human nature which makes trying to change it prohibitive.