Declaration of Occupy Wall Street - Page 14

**TXgolfer** · 10-16-2011, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

We should be grateful that they aren't rioting like the ones in Europe.

Yet....

**TXgolfer** · 10-16-2011, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeafCaroline

and why suddenly out of the blue could millions not make their payments? they were set up to fail.

It's very different in Canada - primarily because bankers use their own money to make loans so they are far more conservative and not very keen on high risk lending.

Yes, you're right. Homes got foreclosed because people couldn't pay. But then again, bankers knew this already even while doling out the loans.

Banks are paying for their mistakes ....nobody supports fraud. But borrowers are still responsible for knowing what they can afford. Only an idiot trusts a salesman who says "let me show you how you can afford this". Do the math.

**Reba** · 10-16-2011, 03:12 PM

Excuse me if this is a repost. I've lost track. I've been trying to find an update on the guy's condition since he was released from the hospital.

Quote:

...In the incident involving the scooter, a video posted to YouTube shows the man, Ari Douglas, with his leg beneath the scooter’s front wheel, and then, a few seconds later, beneath its back wheel, apparently stuck. Another video, on the Local East Village, shows him being dragged away from the motorcycle by the police moments later.

The chief police spokesman, Paul J. Browne, said Mr. Douglas “was not trapped.”

“Independent witnesses said he purposely put his legs under the scooter and then claimed falsely he was trapped,” Mr. Browne said.

The Daily News quoted one of its photographers, Joseph Marino, as saying that the scooter “definitely hit” Mr. Douglas but did not run him over. “I saw him sticking his legs under the bike to make it appear he was run over,” Mr. Marino said. Mr. Browne said he was also told by The Associated Press that one of its photographers witnessed Mr. Douglas deliberately putting his feet under the scooter.

Mr. Douglas, 32, of Connecticut, was treated at the emergency room at Bellevue Hospital Center, said Gideon Oliver, a committee member of the lawyers’ guild, which has been providing legal aid to the protesters. Mr. Oliver said he did not know the extent of Mr. Douglas’s injuries.

Mr. Douglas was charged with felony criminal mischief, obstructing judicial administration, disorderly conduct and resisting arrest, Mr. Browne said.

Mr. Browne said Mr. Douglas kicked over the scooter at one point. “After he said he was trapped, he kicked over the same scooter,” Mr. Browne said. Before the scooter incident, Mr. Browne said, Mr. Douglas had been warned repeatedly to “stay on the sidewalk and not come into the street.”

Pair of Police-Protester Incidents Adds Fuel to Occupy Wall St. - NYTimes.com

He's only 32 years old? I thought I read earlier reports calling him "middle-aged."

DeafCaroline · 10-16-2011, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TXgolfer

Banks are paying for their mistakes ....nobody supports fraud. But borrowers are still responsible for knowing what they can afford. Only an idiot trusts a salesman who says "let me show you how you can afford this". Do the math.

Banks are paying for their mistakes but not at personal cost and they still managed to give themselves million dollar bonuses with taxpayers' money, people are paying even more and at a far more personal cost. You might as well tell people to study banking, economics and finance before applying for a loan. people are naive and banks took advantage of this.

In Canada, we have laws to protect against such exploitation. We know that people don't know as much about medicine as doctors do. We know that people don't know as much about finance as banks do, we know that the average guy next door doesn't know as much about math as einstein or that I don't know as much about law as the lawyer who handled my divorce case. There's a reason we trust professionals. And there's a reason laws are put in place to protect the people against professionals who are not behaving professionally or ethically.

But hey, if you're fine with how things are in the US, and think it's all the people's fault for not being as knowledgeable as bankers, then whatever makes you happy.

**saywhatkid** · 10-16-2011, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeafCaroline

We know that people don't know as much about medicine as doctors do. We know that people don't know as much about finance as banks do, we know that the average guy next door doesn't know as much about math as einstein or that I don't know as much about law as the lawyer who handled my divorce case. There's a reason we trust professionals. And there's a reason laws are put in place to protect the people against professionals who are not behaving professionally or ethically.

But hey, if you're fine with how things are in the US, and think it's all the people's fault for not being as knowledgeable as bankers, then whatever makes you happy.

This is a good way of pointing out something that also bothered me. Assuming that someone in college would be smart enough to know banking ins and outs, in addition to their own courseload, plus work their way through; is this even possible for student in a field completely unrelated to finance? Are there enough hours in a day? What about those that are challenged mentally; how do they find the time to succeed when it is all on them to learn and know? Sure, there are exceptions; that is why there are lengthy articles that herald their individual success story. I found some of the previous comments to be a bit smug.

**Reba** · 10-16-2011, 03:28 PM

You have to view this one sideways but I think it's the final proof that the guy faked his stuck foot:

NYPD Assaults Legal Observer Ari Douglas - YouTube

You can clearly see both feet clear of the scooter before it was tipped over by Douglas. In fact, you can see him wedge his foot underneath the carriage (not wheel) of the scooter.

In the other video, where he kicks over the scooter, you can see by the position of his foot, that it was under the carriage (which doesn't touch the road), not under a wheel.

He was never run over.

He might have been bumped by the scooter but definitely not run over.

**Reba** · 10-16-2011, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TXgolfer

Yet....

I hope it doesn't come to that. We don't have to follow the Euro's in all their much more cultured ways, do we?

**sallylou** · 10-16-2011, 06:30 PM

TXgolfer, what's up with you lately? Calling everyone an idiot and being so cranky is not really your style. What gives?

**Jiro** · 10-16-2011, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sallylou

TXgolfer, what's up with you lately? Calling everyone an idiot and being so cranky is not really your style. What gives?

methinks TXGolfer is a victim of Wall Street and/or knows one "very" personally affected by Wall Street

darkdog · 10-16-2011, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deafskeptic

Just out of curiosity, who bought the politicans?

I don't think they were necessarily bought. They just believe as a matter of ideology that the government should intervene to create outcomes they prefer. Imagine someone saying "I don't think the government should be trying to help poor people and minorities buy homes more easily." Would that go without controversy? Or would people call him uncaring and accuse him of wanting to kill the American dream? I think it's the latter. Politicians, feeling like they had to "do something", pushed on banks to lower lending standards, it led to a speculation bubble, it burst when interest rates went up, and here we are today.

Quote:

Originally Posted by deafskeptic

I agree that fundmental changes need to be made in the laws and though I am reluctant to admit it, it will have to government regulation.

It's not just a matter of more regulation or less. It's a matter of bad regulation and good regulation. Regulators were actually pushing on banks to loosen "unreasonable" lending standards. That was bad regulation. There were politicians who were calling for reigning in Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. That would have been good regulation if they had succeeded.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeafCaroline

Not as bad as it sounds. You guys DID have government regulation - the Glass-Steagall act and with this regulation, you had zero financial crises in 45 years. It was only after the first repeal of the act that Wall Street started having major problems.

We're far more conservative and regulated in Canada - and because of this, we were fortunately protected by the market collapse not only in America but also Europe. While millions lost their homes, our real estate market not only stayed steady but continued to be a seller's market. AND our overall taxes are the lowest they have been in 50 years. We are the leading country, economically speaking, of the G7 after the 2008 crisis.

Not too shabby for a left-leaning government-regulated welfare nation, eh?

Glass-Steagall separated commercial banks from investment banks. Canada did away with this separation in 1987, 12 years before the US did. There are several things different about Canada. For one, their regulators are actually concerned with risk, not social engineering. They also have laws requiring home buyers to pay 20% down or buy mortgage insurance. They also don't have any equivalent of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to buy up risky mortgages from banks with implicit assumptions that the government would bail them out.

Here in the US, the housing boom was very localized. It was concentrated in Florida, California, Arizona, and Nevada. For example, here in Dallas, home prices only dropped about 3% from their peak. This was mostly the result of heavy land use restrictions that cause the supply of housing in an area to stagnate while demand increases. The result was skyrocketing prices. Politicians then fretted about "affordable housing" and pushed for "creative financing" to get people in houses.

darkdog · 10-16-2011, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saywhatkid

Not criticizing the Tea Party at all. Just saying there are bad apples all over this thing, and they are getting far too much airtime. Take a look at the guy faking injury to get attention in the video posted throughout this thread. I am trying to say that a lot of the opposition to this protest seems to center around the abhorant behavior of a few. Better to point out what awful people are involved in this protest than discuss the core reasons these people are camping out in downtown NYC. Can you even begin to imagine what that would be like; to camp/eat/sleep in this location?

Oh, I know you weren't criticizing the Tea Parties. I think character and behavior do matter, and I disagree, with good justification, with your premise that this uncivilized behavior is just a few bad apples. I would not have aligned myself with the Tea Party if it were anything like this. I guess I'm a "ye shall know them by their fruits" type.

**TXgolfer** · 10-16-2011, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

I hope it doesn't come to that. We don't have to follow the Euro's in all their much more cultured ways, do we?

I agree

**TXgolfer** · 10-16-2011, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sallylou

TXgolfer, what's up with you lately? Calling everyone an idiot and being so cranky is not really your style. What gives?

I did switch to decaf.

Nah, It just rubs me the wrong way when people blame others for their poor decisions. Don't get me wrong....I agree with locking up the bad guys as I said earlier.

**TXgolfer** · 10-16-2011, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

methinks TXGolfer is a victim of Wall Street and/or knows one "very" personally affected by Wall Street

You know better....

**Jiro** · 10-16-2011, 09:15 PM

Live speech from Mayor Bloomberg about Occupy Wall Street

**Jiro** · 10-16-2011, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TXgolfer

You know better....

based on your reply - I take it that it's true. You have my sympathy.

**TXgolfer** · 10-16-2011, 10:28 PM

yfrog Photo : http://yfrog.com/nun5acj Shared by AKaczynski1

Protesters deface the 9/11 memorial in the park.

**Jiro** · 10-16-2011, 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TXgolfer

yfrog Photo : http://yfrog.com/nun5acj Shared by AKaczynski1

Protesters deface the 9/11 memorial in the park.

defaced? that statue was decorated, not defaced.

**TXgolfer** · 10-16-2011, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

based on your reply - I take it that it's true. You have my sympathy.

Again you know better.... And besides your premise doesn't even make sense. If I were a victim of Wall St wouldn't I side WITH the protesters?

**Jiro** · 10-16-2011, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TXgolfer

Again you know better.... And besides your premise doesn't even make sense. If I were a victim of Wall St wouldn't I side WITH the protesters?

so... are you with the 1% or 99%?

DeafCaroline · 10-16-2011, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TXgolfer

yfrog Photo : http://yfrog.com/nun5acj Shared by AKaczynski1

Protesters deface the 9/11 memorial in the park.

Defacing is when you destroy a property. Like when skinheads break and graffiti-paint and etch scratched words into jewish grave stones. That's defacement. It's willful destruction.

A bandana....a nice soft bandana that sports the American flag...somehow I don't see it qualifying as willful destruction.

**Jiro** · 10-16-2011, 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeafCaroline

Defacing is when you destroy a property. Like when skinheads break and graffiti-paint and etch scratched words into jewish grave stones. That's defacement. It's willful destruction.

A bandana....a nice soft bandana that sports the American flag...somehow I don't see it qualifying as willful destruction.

bingo. precisely huge difference.

Steinhauer · 10-16-2011, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeafCaroline

Defacing is when you destroy a property. Like when skinheads break and graffiti-paint and etch scratched words into jewish grave stones. That's defacement. It's willful destruction.

A bandana....a nice soft bandana that sports the American flag...somehow I don't see it qualifying as willful destruction.

If it had been a Canadian flag ... then it would have been defacement.

DeafCaroline · 10-16-2011, 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steinhauer

If it had been a Canadian flag ... then it would have been defacement.

Hahaha! you should consider it a compliment

Steinhauer · 10-16-2011, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeafCaroline

Hahaha! you should consider it a compliment

**TXgolfer** · 10-17-2011, 12:14 AM

appears to be a black blindfold or gag too....Not to mention the trash.. I find it disrespectful. *shrug*

DeafCaroline · 10-17-2011, 12:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TXgolfer

appears to be a black blindfold or gag too....Not to mention the trash.. I find it disrespectful. *shrug*

What do you think of the symbolism of this? a man with a briefcase (1%) blinded (black mask) to the destruction of his work (newspaper, trash in briefcase), and he represents America - bandana on his head.

Although the black mask could also be representative of masked robbers.

It's not random defacement - it's an artistic depiction of the current sentiment of occupy wall street. The statue itself was not harmed in any way.

**deafskeptic** · 10-17-2011, 12:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

so... are you with the 1% or 99%?

My money says he's with the 1%.

**deafskeptic** · 10-17-2011, 12:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeafCaroline

What do you think of the symbolism of this? a man with a briefcase (1%) blinded (black mask) to the destruction of his work (newspaper, trash in briefcase), and he represents America - bandana on his head.

Although the black mask could also be representative of masked robbers.

It's not random defacement - it's an artistic depiction of the current sentiment of occupy wall street. The statue itself was not harmed in any way.

The blindfold can be removed much more easily than paint or scratches.. so decoration would be a much more accurate description.

**TXgolfer** · 10-17-2011, 12:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeafCaroline

What do you think of the symbolism of this? a man with a briefcase (1%) blinded (black mask) to the destruction of his work (newspaper, trash in briefcase), and he represents America - bandana on his head.

Although the black mask could also be representative of masked robbers.

It's not random defacement - it's an artistic depiction of the current sentiment of occupy wall street. The statue itself was not harmed in any way.

No doubt it's symbolic..... But being that it is a 9/11 statue I have a problem with it.

10-16-2011, 06:30 PM	#398 (permalink)
sallylou Potterhead and Janeite Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: My own private Idaho Posts: 6,653	TXgolfer, what's up with you lately? Calling everyone an idiot and being so cranky is not really your style. What gives? __________________

10-16-2011, 09:15 PM	#405 (permalink)
Jiro Aparecium Deletrius Legil Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: The Soprano State Posts: 60,456	Live speech from Mayor Bloomberg about Occupy Wall Street __________________ - Don't forget to buy Jiro's Special Edition Sunglasses for $19.95

10-16-2011, 10:28 PM	#407 (permalink)
TXgolfer Dream Weaver Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Everywhere Posts: 17,605	yfrog Photo : http://yfrog.com/nun5acj Shared by AKaczynski1 Protesters deface the 9/11 memorial in the park. __________________ Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good. - Romans 12:21 Sometimes at night, I see their faces. I feel the traces they've left on my soul

10-17-2011, 12:14 AM	#416 (permalink)
TXgolfer Dream Weaver Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Everywhere Posts: 17,605	appears to be a black blindfold or gag too....Not to mention the trash.. I find it disrespectful. shrug __________________ Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good. - Romans 12:21 Sometimes at night, I see their faces. I feel the traces they've left on my soul

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