netrox

I am pro-choice and it's nice to know that fetuses don't perceive pain until 35 weeks or later... that's just before they are about to be born.

"Babies can distinguish painful stimuli as different from general touch from around 35-37 weeks gestation -- just before an infant would normally be born -- according to new research."

Babies distinguish pain from touch at 35-37 weeks, research finds

Anti-abortion laws based on "fetal pain" needs to be thrown out. It's nothing but a clear cut agenda from pro-lifers to put an end to abortion practices and to make women feel guilty about abortions.

I've been skeptical of "fetal pain" for a while - they react to touch but do they feel pain? No evidence supports it.

Deafness

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warpedpink

No evidence supported alot of things until they were proven otherwise. Never assume.

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SkullChick

Wirelessly posted

I dont believe that they dont feel pain until 35 weeks because babies cry and cannot be touched when they're born prematurely

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Sunshine

Agree. My nephew born 29 weeks...he feel pain then. He cry when nurse stick needle.

deafbajagal

My baby was premature as well...she clearly cried from pain.

souggy

Even if they can't feel pain, they can still be stressed out. They are still receiving a stimulus something is wrong, even if they can't feel it.

It's why mishandling fish while doing a catch'n'release is considered as cruel, despite they don't have the cortex for pain perception, because it is stressful for them; and stress screws up their immune system.

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deafbajagal

Interesting (about the fish)

souggy

Yes, stress stimuli and pain perceptions are two different things; yet they yield the same results. People who argue in absence of pain seems to forget that.

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deafbajagal

That makes sense. I never thought of that before.

Beach girl

Hmmm.... I got the impression that the study indicates that "touch" and "pain" are perceived as being the same thing - in other words, that all touch is perceived as "pain" up until the 35 week period. That corresponds to how my nephew was, too. He was born slightly more than 7 weeks early, and he definitely perceived pain as a new-born. Anything seemed to pain him - the touch of a blanket, for instance.

Mostly he just slept and ate, though. He did not become very responsive to faces or to loving touches until just about the time he should have been born.

netrox

"Hmmm.... I got the impression that the study indicates that "touch" and "pain" are perceived as being the same thing - in other words, that all touch is perceived as "pain" up until the 35 week period. That corresponds to how my nephew was, too. He was born slightly more than 7 weeks early, and he definitely perceived pain as a new-born. Anything seemed to pain him - the touch of a blanket, for instance."

That's what the article is saying - they perceive touch and pain as the same thing until they were about to be born.

"Using electroencephalography (EEG), the scientists measured the babies' electrical brain activity when they were undergoing a routine heel lance -- a standard procedure essential to collect blood samples for clinical use.

In the premature babies the EEG recorded a response to the heel lance of non-specific 'neuronal bursts' -- general bursts of electrical activity in the brain. After 35-37 weeks the babies' response changed to localised activity in specific areas of the brain, indicating that they were now perceiving painful stimulation as separate to touch."

Bottesini

So in other words, before 35 weeks, it hurts more and the whole system , and after 35 weeks, pain is localized.

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netrox

As for fish, it may be true BUT it isn't true for infants. The babies get a jolt of stress from eternal stimuli. Their bodies produce a LOT of stress hormones. Their heart rate goes very high. That's NORMAL. They need to have some stresses to help them function better.

You DEFINITELY need productive stress in order to function. When you exercise, you produce acute stress on your body and it actually depresses your immune system BUT when you rest, your body metabolism slows down dramatically which allows your body to repair the damage.

When you're fat, you're CHRONICALLY stressed (with excessive weight and higher than normal stress hormones and higher heart rate/blood pressure) and it doesn't give your body the time to recover from it. It stays chronically stressed... hence higher risk of health problems.

netrox

If that's the case, then it would suck as it would mean the entire skin is painful.

But this study is of interest saying that premmies have altered responses to pain in later life:

"Premature infants who need intensive care or surgery are less sensitive to thermal (hot and cold) sensations later in life, according to research conducted at UCL (University College London). The study, published in the journal Pain, suggests that pain and injury related to major medical interventions in early development may alter how children respond to painful stimuli much later in life."

Premature Babies Have Altered Sensory Responses In Later Life

I don't know if it's a good thing or not.

Beach girl

I'm confused about your first statement, then, when you said "it's nice to know that fetuses don't perceive pain until 35 weeks or later."

Because it looks like it's the opposite that's the case -that the fetus perceives *every* touch as being "pain" until 35 weeks old.

I'm pro-choice also, but late-term abortions seem a different thing entirely. I guess it depends how it's done, but after neural development takes place, it seems clear that the fetus feels pain. Or potentially can feel pain. I don't know how the procedure is done, if they administer an anesthetic to the fetus or not, for late-term abortions.

Steinhauer

When I was a 3 week old fetus in the womb, I can remember the umbilical cord tickling my feet and I giggled.

netrox

oh really?

Steinhauer

You mean you didn't giggle in the womb?

Beach girl

My sil said she could tell when her babies had hiccups in the womb. That was in the last month of pregnancy, if I'm remembering correctly.

Steel X

Like I said before, abortion is a very personal issue no matter what they say, they have no right to get involved into her business since she's the one carrying her own baby, no one else.

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jillio

You are just assuming that they are crying from pain, because you saw something happen that you would think was painful if it happened to you. Preemies are not crying from pain. They are crying from environmental changes that their system is not ready for yet that create an unpleasantness. Just like a full term will cry from hunger, or being bathed, or having their diapers changed.

jillio

No. The neuronal connections are not mature enough to turn a perception into pain.