TWA

Deafness

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Reba

No, they didn't use terrorist-like activities. They used no violence or threat of violence. They didn't use any methods to frighten anyone.

If anything, the Democrats used the fear of no Social Security checks, and the threat of losing our good credit rating to promote their agenda.

TWA

C'mon, Reba. You are absolutely in denial if this is what you believe. The Tea Party didn't use fear? Really? Threatening to destroy our economy? You are begging the question there.

What do you mean the democrats were using the threat of losing our good credit rating? THAT WAS THE REPUBLICANS.

Reba

They said that if they didn't raise the debt ceiling that we would default on payments and lose our good credit rating.

Not a conservative or Republican source:

Debt ceiling: What happens if it isn't raised? - Jul. 13, 2011

TWA

What exactly in this article did you find false or misleading or even hyperbolic? It's all absolutely true.

I really don't understand what you are trying to argue here. Republicans control only one part of a three-part legislature. And the Tea Party is nothing more than a fringe group (and a short-lived one at that. Make no mistake. This is the end of their little temper tantrum). That gives them little legitimate bargaining power. So they couldn't get everything they wanted using fair compromises. Even the republican leaders admitted this. Under normal circumstances, concessions would have to be made. That's how our government works. But what did the conservatives do instead? They threatened to run our economy into the ground if their demands weren't met. Compromises be damned. WHAT PART OF THIS ARE YOU NOT GETTING?


Just admit it: This was an abhorrent display on the part of republicans, and especially the Tea Party. It's okay, you know, to admit when your party did something wrong. Defending this really makes you look bad.

Reba

I'm not trying to argue anything. You asked me questions and I answered. You aren't trolling, are you?

darkdog

Then why did the Democrats in the Senate swat down not one, but two bills from the House? Why is it that half of the Democrats in the House voted nay on the final bill on the evening of August 1? It's almost as if they were willing to risk destroying the economy if they couldn't get what they wanted.

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jillio

OOOOkay.

TWA

You said you didn't see any "terrorist activity" on the part of republicans or conservatives. You are referring to a very literal interpretation of terrorism involving killing and maiming. I am referring to terrorism in a more figurative way, but in both instances, the underlying intent and execution are EXACTLY THE SAME.

I'm not trolling at all. I have never been this more pissed off about politics in this country. Usually I just holler a bit, shrug my shoulders, and move on-- because it's business as usual. I dislike just about all politicians, not just those here in Washington, but everywhere. But what just occurred in the past week was a new low for American politics, and definitely a new low for republicans, just when I thought they couldn't go any lower. What we witnessed was a wholesale hijacking of American values.

Two hundred and fifty years ago, George Washington initiated the legislative body as a system of compromises and working together. There have been many spats and feuds since that time, but I can never recall ever witnessing or reading about a time that one party threatened to sabotage the entire country if they did not get what they wanted. That is worse than being un-American. That is treason.

TWA

Because those latter bills put forth by the republicans were completely lopsided and unrealistic. The earlier bill Boehner and Obama worked on together was a more bipartisan effort, but the teatards shot that out of the water. Why else? Because democrats had already compromised more than the Tea Party deserved. When you control one part of a three-part legislative system, you don't exactly have huge bargaining power. Why is this so hard for you to understand?

Let's not forget who initiated this crisis. Raising the debt ceiling is a formality. It is never challenged or thwarted because doing so has catastrophic implications. Don't even try to spin this around on democrats. That's the dirty little trick going around in the conservative camp now, eh? Create a colossal mess, then try and pass it off as the other guy's fault? First Bush and his 8 year disaster, now this? The American public is on to this. You guys won't stand a chance in the next election if you keep this up.

deafskeptic

I am very angry about the whole mess. I kept thinking they have to go. I do not think we're alone in this.

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darkdog

So it's OK to risk destroying the economy if you feel the bill is lobsided. Otherwise, you're a terrorist. Okey dokey... But was it really so lobsided? The cut, cap, and balance bill had 2/3 support according to a CNN poll:

CNN Poll: Strong partisan divide on debt ceiling – CNN Political Ticker - CNN.com Blogs

It hasn't been thwarted yet, but it has been challenged. Famous examples include, well, the entire Democrat caucus in the Senate in 2006, including Harry Reid and Barack Obama, both of whom spoke out against it: U.S. Senate: Legislation & Records Home > Votes > Roll Call Vote

I guess you could say they knew it would pass (although 52 votes is pretty close) and they were just being shameless politicians, but with this latest bill, it was a nail biter, and half the Democrats in the House voted against it because they didn't like what was in it. If the vote had gone their way, the debt ceiling would not have passed on time and we would be living the consequences. It's okay, you know, to admit when your party did something wrong.

By the way, I was pretty upset with the Republicans who rejected Boehner's first bill last Thursday. That one was likely to pass the Senate and I thought they were, well, stupid to block it. But terrorists? No. Same goes for the Democrats who opposed this. Irresponsible? Yes. Terrorists? No.

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TWA

So the democrats should have just rolled over and taken everything the Tea Party terrorists demanded in order to save the country? That's your argument? Really? You're basically admitting that yes, the Tea Party was trying to destroy the country, but if the democrats, who had already made many concessions while the republicans had made absolutely NONE, didn't give in to all demands, then it would be their fault for a default on our debt? Wow.

What bothers me more is that I still see no refutation whatsoever from either you or Reba about the tactics that the republicans used. You both seem to be aware of what really went on, yet you wont' acknowledge it and instead dance around it.

So, let's just forget about the democrats for a second. I'll put this in a simple yes or no question for you without charged language:

Do you or do you not think the tactic that the republicans used to pass this bill was acceptable?

deafskeptic

Doesn't matter which party it was. It was totally unacceptable. of course, the holy Republican party cna do no wrong.

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Banjo

GOP freshman to Biden:

Joe Walsh is a moron. His condo went into foreclosure, and not to mention that he is basically a deadbeat father for not paying his child support. He should let someone else speak for the party.

Foxrac

What's red alert for Joe Walsh!

Republican Party is nothing of party and they are not true conservative anymore.

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In Moto We Trust

TWA

One and done tea moron, just like most of them. Republicans are going to get hammered in 2012, and it's because of fools like this guy.

Don't believe me? Keep your eyes on the Wisconsin recall next week. I have a pretty good feeling you're going to see 6 tea morons out of a job by the end of August.

deafskeptic

I don't think Americans are going to forget this time.

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Secretblend

Yea they will.

Reba

I thought you said that what the Tea Party demanded would destroy, not save the country?

I did refute it. You just want to argue back and forth. I guess it helps you feel better to vent the steam.

Man, you sound like Joe McCarthy with your badgering!

I'm not sure what you call "the tactic." I didn't see anything they did as being terrorism.

I go with Rep. Tim Scott's statement:

"The debate surrounding the debt ceiling is proof we have taken huge steps towards changing the culture in Washington. Speaker Boehner and the Republican leadership team have done a great job of expressing the conservative position and showing the American people we are serious about tightening our belt.

However, this compromise did not take enough steps towards ensuring a stable economic future in order to earn my vote. The short-term spending reductions in the bill were insufficient, I believe the Balanced Budget Amendment should be mandated, and I have concerns with lingering questions regarding defense cuts.

Despite my decision on this particular vote, I am pleased with the direction we are moving the debate, and want to thank the American people for supporting the principles of Cut, Cap, and Balance. I will continue the fight to reign in spending, reform our tax code, and get the government out of the way of our job creators."

netrox

Cut, Cap, and Balance is unrealistic and bad for economy.

deafskeptic

Perhaps but I don't think it's likely for the retirees to forget this.

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TWA

From now on, I will be referring to the Tea Party as the Terror Party.

TWA

But don't take my word for it. This is how they see themselves:
- Mitch McConnell, Senate Minority Leader, political terrorist.


Political Animal - Mitch McConnell, hostage taker

Banjo

So he is one of the "some people" then.

TWA

Yes, and this quote explicitly shows the mentality behind their tactics and action.

darkdog

Did you not even read what I said? Reading your response, one would have no idea I said this:
That partially answers your question, so let me give you a more complete answer. I find the stubbornness of some of the Tea Party members of Congress unacceptable. I think they were trying to solve the whole debt problem in one fell swoop and it just wasn't in the cards. I think they should have voted for the bill last Thursday and to say I was upset with them a week ago is an understatement.

I don't think they were trying to actively trying to destroy the country. For one, the threat of immediate default was probably exaggerated and the threat of social security checks not going out was almost certainly exaggerated. I think it would have greatly disrupted the financial markets and caused a lot of disruption in the government and they were burying their heads in the sand about that. If the debt ceiling was not raised, they would have experienced tremendous pressure in the coming weeks to raise it and most of them probably would have folded under that pressure. Wrong about the consequences of not raising the debt-ceiling? Yes. Terrorists? No.

But not every Tea Party member of Congress was stubborn about raising the debt ceiling. Tea Party rock stars like Alan West, Sean Duffy, and Paul Ryan (who's not really considered a Tea Party member, but he has fiscal cred among the Tea Party) supported last Thursday's bill and tried to convince the hold-outs that they had to raise the debt ceiling. So, if we consider the hold-outs terrorists, what would that make these guys... heroes?

I do think it's fine that both sides negotiated for what they wanted. I don't approve of the rigidity displayed by some on both sides. Speaking of which, let's now let's focus on the Democrat party. You asked why such a small minority should get such power. I guess the answer is they voted the same way as the Democrat party. So are you fine with the Democrats who refused to increase the debt-ceiling at the 11th hour when it really mattered all because they didn't like the exceedingly mild spending cuts and they didn't get the tax hikes they wanted? If this was a game of chicken, they refused to turn the wheel, too. If we're now defining terrorist as anyone who opposes increasing the debt ceiling because they can't get what they want, why don't you go after those guys too? Why should it matter if a bill was lobsided (which is debatable, as it was a pared down version of an earlier bill with broad popular support)? What bothers me more is that I still see no refutation whatsoever from you about the tactics the Democrats used.

I should probably just be content to sit back and watch the incoherent hate come from the side who shamelessly lectured people like me about "civility" just six months ago. After all, if I can't stop a train wreck, I might as well grab and chair and some popcorn, so I think I'll do that now.

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Beowulf

Ron Paul.


'Nuff said.

jillio

Oh, its not just the retirees that will remember.

netrox

another poll blaming GOP for Congress games:

"A record 82 percent of Americans now disapprove of the way Congress is handling its job — the most since The Times first began asking the question in 1977, and even more than after another political stalemate led to a shutdown of the federal government in 1995. More than four out of five people surveyed said that the recent debt ceiling debate was more about gaining political advantage than about doing what is best for the country. Nearly three-quarters said that the debate had harmed the image of the United States in the world.

Republicans in Congress shoulder more of the blame for the difficulties in reaching a debt ceiling agreement than President Obama and the Democrats, the poll found.

The Republicans compromised too little, a majority of those polled said. All told, 72 percent disapproved of the way Republicans in Congress handled the negotiations, while 66 percent disapproved of the way Democrats in Congress handled negotiations. The public was more evenly divided about how President Obama handled the debt ceiling negotiations: 47 percent disapproved and 46 percent approved.

The public’s opinion of the Tea Party movement has soured in the wake of the debt ceiling debate. The Tea Party is now viewed unfavorably by 40 percent of the public and favorably by just 20 percent, according to the poll. "

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/05/us...poll.html?_r=1