kokonut

Well, it's certainly a change but progress?
It's been 1 year and 4 months later past from "a year from now..". Progress?


Obama: 'One-term proposition' if no fix: The Swamp




But sad for the American people...they're the ones who suffer.

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"... turns out they are telling the truth."

Deafness

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StSapphire

Two years, not one.

Beowulf

It's sad that Bush went from a surplus to the financial ruin we have today, and he got two terms.

StSapphire

As much as I hate defending him, Bush did also preside while the country shifted from irrational exuberance (dot-com bubble burst) to overly defensive (as an effect of 9/11). That isn't to say that Bush did an especially good job, but since I'd equally defend Obama by pointing out that he started at the cusp of a horrid financial collapse, I feel vaguely compelled to point out mitigating circumstances for Bush, too.

Beowulf

Bush deliberately lied to get us into this mess. Obama didn't. Therein lies the difference.

StSapphire

Bush (probably) lied to get us into one specific mess. He didn't lie to cause the dot-com bubble burst (which he inherited, similar to Obama inheriting the financial mess, and had a similarly negative impact on the economy in general, though not nearly as widespread), and unless you're a conspiracy theorist who thinks the government is far more competent than I'd ever be willing to give them credit for, then he also didn't lie and/or fabricate 9/11 itself, either.

I could also be easily convinced that Bush himself didn't actually "lie" about Iraq so much as "was completely wrong without realizing it" (at least at first - after a year or two, he was either lied to or lying himself, but that's an entirely different matter).

Foxrac

Wait and see.

Obama has little over 1 year to left and anything could change sooner.

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StSapphire

Uh... let's be realistic, it ain't gonna magically get better overnight. We're simply on the slow road to recovery, regardless of your opinion of the President.

kokonut

I clarified it. It's been 1 year and 4 months after he said it'd be a "year from now."

__________________
Before AD.

After AD.

"Restriction on free thought and free speech is the most dangerous of all subversions. It is the one un-American act that could most easily defeat us."
-Thurgood Marshall, former Supreme Court Justice


"... turns out they are telling the truth."

kokonut

Assuming it's on a recovery or that we are on a recovery. For all we know it could drastically turn for the worse. If the U.S. cannot borrow money, it must print more money. Doesn't help with the inflation one bit. Rising gasoline prices will affect everybody, especially the lower income people.

__________________
Before AD.

After AD.

"Restriction on free thought and free speech is the most dangerous of all subversions. It is the one un-American act that could most easily defeat us."
-Thurgood Marshall, former Supreme Court Justice


"... turns out they are telling the truth."

Beowulf

I find it a bit odd that in spite of the overwhelming evidence, people buy the current argument that Bush was "misled." And don't knock the "conspiracy theorists," because they are closer to the truth than we may admit (which is why we ridicule them). I no longer investigate 9-11 matters: I am convinced of my belief, and I accept that you are equally convinced of yours. Ah well.

StSapphire

Oh, okay. That's confusing. And if you're going based on his quote that "We'll be starting to see signs of recovery" then, good work - we have. It's just not a fast or immediate recovery. It's slow, and going to continue to be slow and painful. But the numbers are getting better, rather than worse. That's what "recovery" means.

See above. Also, please give examples of inflation other than food or energy, which have nothing to do with "printing money" or "refusal to drill" or anything silly like that, and much more to do with astronomically rising demand by China.

(For more detailed analysis, see here: The Economic Outlook as of May 2011: Yes, This Is Called the Dismal Science. Why Do You Ask? - Grasping Reality with Both Hands )

I don't honestly have an opinion on whether Bush was "misled" or simply lied entirely, but I've not seen the overwhelming (and unbiased) evidence showing that he was in full knowledge at all times that he was lying. Of course, I could also simply be blinded by the fact that it seems much more likely to me that Bush was a bumbling idiot than an evil mastermind.

As for conspiracy theorists, no, I ridicule them because they cling to whatever their conspiracy is irrationally, defending it with ever-moving goalposts and more and more increasingly unlikely leaps of faith. I've seen the White House leaking like a sinking pirate boat, and I find it extremely hard to believe that it is even remotely possible that they could arrange and execute a fake terrorist attack and subsequently cover up all evidence of it. That's something that happens in books and movies, not real life.

DeafCaroline

Amen.

Reba

Exactly.

History shows us that no previous administrations have been able to keep any of their secrets from exposure for very long.

Even recent experience shows us that the White House can't keep secrets about covert missions.

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Tell us the truth about Benghazi!

StSapphire

This has always been my contention with any conspiracy theory that involves a government coverup. I simply don't believe in our (or any) government enough to believe they could ever actually pull it off. Far too many points of failure.

Beowulf

Explosives?

DeafCaroline

Wikileaks!

Beowulf

True. Bush White House insiders are singing like canaries about 9=11. Or didn't you know?

kokonut

And that he's accountable for it. Though I'm not sure having unemployment rate hovering between 9 and 10 percent would be seen as "signs of recovery."

Milton Friedman, author of Money Mischief, once said: "Inflation is always and everywhere a monetary phenomenon." Or did you miss out the "quantitative easing" proposed by Volcker? Too much printing of money than the output (of what we produce) can become a bad thing. Right?

__________________
Before AD.

After AD.

"Restriction on free thought and free speech is the most dangerous of all subversions. It is the one un-American act that could most easily defeat us."
-Thurgood Marshall, former Supreme Court Justice


"... turns out they are telling the truth."

Reba

Where's the rest of the speech? I can't tell what he's talking about from that short clip.

From what little is included, Bush is talking about the plans of Al Qaeda operatives, not the plans of the US government.

Are you saying that after all this supposedly carefully crafted diabolical plotting, Bush decided to blurt out the scheme in a nationwide televised speech?

kokonut

__________________
Before AD.

After AD.

"Restriction on free thought and free speech is the most dangerous of all subversions. It is the one un-American act that could most easily defeat us."
-Thurgood Marshall, former Supreme Court Justice


"... turns out they are telling the truth."

Beowulf

I wondered that myself, to tell the truth. But don't forget that Rumsfeld said that a "missile" hit the Pentagon and that Flight 93 was "shot down" over Pennsylvania on 9-11. Just saying, so who knows Bush's frame of mind at the time?

deafskeptic

I'm with you and Reba on this one. I will admit that for a while the 911 conspiracy interested me but l'v always found it a bit far fetched that the goverenment would go to such lengths.

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Banjo

You mean they weren't able to keep a single secret from exposure? Here's a little known fact about secrets, they are only secrets if no one else know about them. They are no longer secrets if they are known by someone else or the public.

deafskeptic

Yep. The more people who know about a plot, the less likely that it will be kept a secret.

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Banjo

Right, I'm sure there are plenty of secrets we don't know about because that's the way they want it to stay. You can't keep everything a secret though.

Reba

There are military secrets that stay secret until they are declassified.

However, if you notice, that's only when they are strictly military operations. As soon as you mix civilian politicians into the scenario, the hush factor goes kaboom. They just can't seem to keep their mouths shut. (Especially after the fact.)

Then, add to that the possibility that even one participant feels slighted or wronged, or gets a conscience and you have a whistle blower. All it takes is one.

Banjo

Just a question, is it possible for a secret to stay a secret if it is not to be found in any of the military/government files? For instance, the deep, deep undercover agents?

KristinaB

The way I see it, and I may be wrong or not thinking right, is that whatever President comes in, we have to remember that they are handed whatever crap is left form the previous administration and have to clean that up before they can move on. It makes it real hard for them to act on any campaign promises right away and at times 4 years is not enough time to get it done. I'm not going to give my opinion on Obama, and I've never been one to follow politics much. It confuses me too much.

TXgolfer

I feel sorry for the poor bastard (or bastardette) that has to clean up after this guy....

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Sometimes at night, I see their faces. I feel the traces they've left on my soul