Ariz. seeks online donations to build border fence

rockin'robin · 05-08-2011, 07:10 PM

PHOENIX – Arizona lawmakers want more fence along the border with Mexico — whether the federal government thinks it's necessary or not.

They've got a plan that could get a project started using online donations and prison labor. If they get enough money, all they would have to do is get cooperation from landowners and construction could begin as soon as this year.

Gov. Jan Brewer recently signed a bill that sets the state on a course that begins with launching a website to raise money for the work, said state Sen. Steve Smith, the bill's sponsor.

"We're going to build this site as fast as we can, and promote it, and market the heck out of it," said Smith, a first-term Republican senator from Maricopa.

Arizona — strapped for cash and mired in a budget crisis — is already using public donations to pay for its legal defense of the SB1070 illegal immigration law.

Part of the marketing pitch for donations could include providing certificates declaring that individual contributors "helped build the Arizona wall," Smith said. "I think it's going to be a really, really neat thing."

Construction would start "after we've raised a significant amount of money first" but possibly as soon as later this year, Smith said.

"If the website is up and there is an overwhelming response to what we've done and millions of dollars in this fund, I would see no reason why engineering or initial construction or finalized plans can't be accomplished," he said.

The nearly 2,000-mile U.S.-Mexico border already has about 650 miles of fence of one type or another, nearly half of it in Arizona. The state's 376-mile border is the busiest gateway for both illegal immigrants and marijuana smuggling.

Department of Homeland Security spokesman Matthew Chandler said federal officials declined to comment on the Arizona legislation.

State Corrections Director Charles Ryan said getting inmate labor to help construct border fencing wouldn't be a problem.

Minimum-security prisoners already have been used to clear brush in immigrants' hiding spots near the border and clean up trash and other material dumped by border-crossers, he said.

Work crews of Arizona inmates also have been used to refurbish public buildings, build sidewalks and construct park facilities.

At 50 cents an hour, "we are a relatively inexpensive labor force," Ryan said. "If we have the funding to do it, we're capable of doing it."

Arizona's existing border security fund is being used to pay for legal costs of defending SB1070 in court, though Brewer's 2010 executive order creating the fund allows its money to be used for any "border security purpose." A federal judge has blocked implementation of key parts of SB1070, but Brewer has said she'll take the case to the U.S. Supreme Court if necessary.

The fund through Wednesday has received nearly 44,000 donations totaling more than $3.7 million, collected online and through mailed donations since May 2010. Roughly half of the money has been spent, and Brewer spokesman Matthew Benson said the balance is also needed for SB1070-related legal expenses.

Smith and other supporters of the border-fence legislation haven't produced any cost estimates for the state project, saying only that the state should be able to do it far more inexpensively than the federal government.

That still could be put the state's costs in the tens of millions of dollars — or more.

A 2009 report by Congress' Government Accountability Office said costs of federal fencing work to keep out people on foot ranged from $400,000 to $15.1 million per mile, while costs for vehicle barriers ranged from $200,000 to $1.8 million. Costs varied by such things as types of fencing geography, land costs and labor expenses, the report said.

Brewer signed the Arizona fence bill on April 28, and it will take effect with most other new state laws on July 20.

It took the bill about 2 1/2 months to land on her desk, easily winning approval on party-line votes during a legislative session dominated by budget-balancing work

During committee hearings and floor debates, Republicans said the state has a legal and moral obligation to take action because the federal government hasn't done enough to secure the border.

"My constituents want this thing fixed and fixed once and for all, and we're going to do it," Republican Sen. Al Melvin of Tucson said during a February committee hearing. "People should not be dying in the desert."

Democrats questioned the project's feasibility and called it a feel-good distraction from pressing for more comprehensive action on border and immigration issues.

"If we are here to pass symbolic legislation and not really address border security, SB1406 does the job. But people don't benefit from symbolic legislation," Democratic Rep. Catherine Miranda of Phoenix said April 18 House vote.

Under the bill, the border fencing work could be done either in conjunction with other border states or by Arizona alone.

Smith said the committee will consider where to build the fence and what kind of fence is needed.

But the eventual choice could be like double- and triple-fence barriers already installed along the border in Yuma County in southwestern Arizona because they appear to block crossings, he said.

Any type of fence would require approval of landowners, but Smith said he expects that to be forthcoming from the state and private land owners, including ranchers who have complained of break-ins and other trouble associated with smugglers and illegal crossings.

Individual ranchers likely will cooperate with the state fencing project, just as they have done with federal officials on placing helipads, watering stations and communications equipment to help officers patrolling the border, an Arizona Cattle Growers Association official said.

However, the 1,100-member association didn't take a position on the fence bill, said Executive Director Patrick Bray.

"We certainly appreciate the efforts put into this legislation, however the funding is a huge question. It's an empty solution because we don't know where the money is going to come from."

Bray added: "We want to stay focused on the overall border security issue. At this point we are looking for a more comprehensive security approach rather than this pieces that might come to fruition."

Ariz. seeks online donations to build border fence - Yahoo! News

**sequoias** · 05-08-2011, 07:34 PM

If those inmates deserve it...then they do the job with a punishment. That includes the bad illegal immigrants do it for us. ;-)

**saywhatkid** · 05-08-2011, 10:47 PM

Let's see how many of those tax-hating Conservatives line up to chip in for this.

**Banjo** · 05-08-2011, 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saywhatkid

Let's see how many of those tax-hating Conservatives line up to chip in for this.

Just another case of, "Can't have your cake and eat it too", eh?

**saywhatkid** · 05-09-2011, 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Banjo

Just another case of, "Can't have your cake and eat it too", eh?

What I meant was that Conservatives are strongly against higher taxes, more vocal about stopping the influx of illegal immigrants, and have said they prefer to keep their tax rates lower so they can donate to causes of their choosing, not the government's. Here is a perfect situation for them to do just that.

**saywhatkid** · 05-09-2011, 09:22 PM

This thread was started over 24 hours ago, and none of the usual anti-tax / anti-immigrant crowd has made an appearance. My guess is that the project will be unfunded. That leaves the Obama administration, which can either do nothing and be accused of doing nothing; or they can fund this project and be accused of more spending. Does anyone see this the way I do?

**saywhatkid** · 05-11-2011, 04:25 PM

**sallylou** · 05-11-2011, 08:07 PM

Oh, lard. If government officials really wanted to stop illegal immigration, all they would have to do is punish employers who hire illegal immigrants. Oh, yea, I forgot that the people who purchase--er, elect--our government officials want cheap, illegal labor that doesn't have any power to enforce safety standards.

**TXgolfer** · 05-12-2011, 01:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sallylou

Oh, lard. If government officials really wanted to stop illegal immigration, all they would have to do is punish employers who hire illegal immigrants. Oh, yea, I forgot that the people who purchase--er, elect--our government officials want cheap, illegal labor that doesn't have any power to enforce safety standards.

Two words......Fake documents...

**Jiro** · 05-12-2011, 01:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sallylou

Oh, lard. If government officials really wanted to stop illegal immigration, all they would have to do is punish employers who hire illegal immigrants. Oh, yea, I forgot that the people who purchase--er, elect--our government officials want cheap, illegal labor that doesn't have any power to enforce safety standards.

or they can be more forgiving and grant legal documents to each illegals. and make them pay taxes.

**TXgolfer** · 05-12-2011, 01:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

or they can be more forgiving and grant legal documents to each illegals. and make them pay taxes.

Stop the leak.....then clean up the mess

Steinhauer · 05-12-2011, 01:56 AM

This article (not thread) wouldn't be timed just right for the speech given yesterday would it?

The Dream Act failed. Get over it already. Obama will not have the overwhelming voter support from recently legalized illegals.

**saywhatkid** · 05-12-2011, 07:05 AM

Don't know about the timing of this relating to a speech yesterday. The thread was started Sunday...

PowerON · 05-12-2011, 08:45 AM

It's necessary to have wall because it's too dangerous for people to cross and die out there.

**sallylou** · 05-12-2011, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Two words......Fake documents...

Three more words: duty to verify

**sallylou** · 05-12-2011, 01:04 PM

Illegal Immigrants Paid $11.2 Billion in Taxes in 2010

Study Says Illegal Immigrants Paid $11.2 Billion in Taxes | HyperVocal

***naisho*** · 05-12-2011, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sallylou

Illegal Immigrants Paid $11.2 Billion in Taxes in 2010

Study Says Illegal Immigrants Paid $11.2 Billion in Taxes | HyperVocal

Imagine that! Illegal immigrants are paying for our prisons, social security income, and all the yazoo. I'da expect them to not give a crap!

**Jiro** · 05-12-2011, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TXgolfer

Stop the leak.....then clean up the mess

or let the leak in and tax them

**TXgolfer** · 05-12-2011, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sallylou

Three more words: duty to verify

Doesn't work that way today....in fact you can be sued for asking too much. If you want to change the way the system works that is fine with me. But when a worker gives you an ID, SS and references and the IRS doesn't kick out a letter there is only so much you can do.

jillio · 05-12-2011, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saywhatkid

This thread was started over 24 hours ago, and none of the usual anti-tax / anti-immigrant crowd has made an appearance. My guess is that the project will be unfunded. That leaves the Obama administration, which can either do nothing and be accused of doing nothing; or they can fund this project and be accused of more spending. Does anyone see this the way I do?

Why aren't they jumping to make donations?

jillio · 05-12-2011, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by naisho

Imagine that! Illegal immigrants are paying for our prisons, social security income, and all the yazoo. I'da expect them to not give a crap!

Yeah, don't let little things like facts get in the way of forming an opinion.

**TXgolfer** · 05-12-2011, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sallylou

Illegal Immigrants Paid $11.2 Billion in Taxes in 2010

Study Says Illegal Immigrants Paid $11.2 Billion in Taxes | HyperVocal

A post that cites a blog that cites another blog from a tabloid. IMPRESSIVE!!! I'm totally convinced now....

**TXgolfer** · 05-12-2011, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

or let the leak in and tax them

And if the leak gets bigger?

jillio · 05-12-2011, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TXgolfer

A post that cites a blog that cites another blog from a tabloid. IMPRESSIVE!!! I'm totally convinced noe....

Like I said, don't let little things like facts get in your way.

**TXgolfer** · 05-12-2011, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

Like I said, don't let little things like facts get in your way.

This "study" sure didn't.....

BTW since when is an estimate a fact?

jillio · 05-12-2011, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TXgolfer

This "study" sure didn't.....

And again, don't let things like facts get in your way...

**Jiro** · 05-12-2011, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TXgolfer

And if the leak gets bigger?

lotsa lotsa lotsa tax revenue for us! ka ching!

**TXgolfer** · 05-12-2011, 06:22 PM

A pretty weak estimate as far as ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION when they study itself notes....

Quote:

ITEP estimates that households that are headed by undocumented immigrants (which may include members who are U.S. citizens or legal immigrants)

**TXgolfer** · 05-12-2011, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

lotsa lotsa lotsa tax revenue for us! ka ching!

yeah sure.

**sallylou** · 05-12-2011, 07:34 PM

E-Verify already exists.

DHS | E-Verify

05-08-2011, 07:10 PM	#1 (permalink)
rockin'robin Registered User Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Jacksonville, Florida Posts: 15,659	Ariz. seeks online donations to build border fence PHOENIX – Arizona lawmakers want more fence along the border with Mexico — whether the federal government thinks it's necessary or not. They've got a plan that could get a project started using online donations and prison labor. If they get enough money, all they would have to do is get cooperation from landowners and construction could begin as soon as this year. Gov. Jan Brewer recently signed a bill that sets the state on a course that begins with launching a website to raise money for the work, said state Sen. Steve Smith, the bill's sponsor. "We're going to build this site as fast as we can, and promote it, and market the heck out of it," said Smith, a first-term Republican senator from Maricopa. Arizona — strapped for cash and mired in a budget crisis — is already using public donations to pay for its legal defense of the SB1070 illegal immigration law. Part of the marketing pitch for donations could include providing certificates declaring that individual contributors "helped build the Arizona wall," Smith said. "I think it's going to be a really, really neat thing." Construction would start "after we've raised a significant amount of money first" but possibly as soon as later this year, Smith said. "If the website is up and there is an overwhelming response to what we've done and millions of dollars in this fund, I would see no reason why engineering or initial construction or finalized plans can't be accomplished," he said. The nearly 2,000-mile U.S.-Mexico border already has about 650 miles of fence of one type or another, nearly half of it in Arizona. The state's 376-mile border is the busiest gateway for both illegal immigrants and marijuana smuggling. Department of Homeland Security spokesman Matthew Chandler said federal officials declined to comment on the Arizona legislation. State Corrections Director Charles Ryan said getting inmate labor to help construct border fencing wouldn't be a problem. Minimum-security prisoners already have been used to clear brush in immigrants' hiding spots near the border and clean up trash and other material dumped by border-crossers, he said. Work crews of Arizona inmates also have been used to refurbish public buildings, build sidewalks and construct park facilities. At 50 cents an hour, "we are a relatively inexpensive labor force," Ryan said. "If we have the funding to do it, we're capable of doing it." Arizona's existing border security fund is being used to pay for legal costs of defending SB1070 in court, though Brewer's 2010 executive order creating the fund allows its money to be used for any "border security purpose." A federal judge has blocked implementation of key parts of SB1070, but Brewer has said she'll take the case to the U.S. Supreme Court if necessary. The fund through Wednesday has received nearly 44,000 donations totaling more than $3.7 million, collected online and through mailed donations since May 2010. Roughly half of the money has been spent, and Brewer spokesman Matthew Benson said the balance is also needed for SB1070-related legal expenses. Smith and other supporters of the border-fence legislation haven't produced any cost estimates for the state project, saying only that the state should be able to do it far more inexpensively than the federal government. That still could be put the state's costs in the tens of millions of dollars — or more. A 2009 report by Congress' Government Accountability Office said costs of federal fencing work to keep out people on foot ranged from $400,000 to $15.1 million per mile, while costs for vehicle barriers ranged from $200,000 to $1.8 million. Costs varied by such things as types of fencing geography, land costs and labor expenses, the report said. Brewer signed the Arizona fence bill on April 28, and it will take effect with most other new state laws on July 20. It took the bill about 2 1/2 months to land on her desk, easily winning approval on party-line votes during a legislative session dominated by budget-balancing work During committee hearings and floor debates, Republicans said the state has a legal and moral obligation to take action because the federal government hasn't done enough to secure the border. "My constituents want this thing fixed and fixed once and for all, and we're going to do it," Republican Sen. Al Melvin of Tucson said during a February committee hearing. "People should not be dying in the desert." Democrats questioned the project's feasibility and called it a feel-good distraction from pressing for more comprehensive action on border and immigration issues. "If we are here to pass symbolic legislation and not really address border security, SB1406 does the job. But people don't benefit from symbolic legislation," Democratic Rep. Catherine Miranda of Phoenix said April 18 House vote. Under the bill, the border fencing work could be done either in conjunction with other border states or by Arizona alone. Smith said the committee will consider where to build the fence and what kind of fence is needed. But the eventual choice could be like double- and triple-fence barriers already installed along the border in Yuma County in southwestern Arizona because they appear to block crossings, he said. Any type of fence would require approval of landowners, but Smith said he expects that to be forthcoming from the state and private land owners, including ranchers who have complained of break-ins and other trouble associated with smugglers and illegal crossings. Individual ranchers likely will cooperate with the state fencing project, just as they have done with federal officials on placing helipads, watering stations and communications equipment to help officers patrolling the border, an Arizona Cattle Growers Association official said. However, the 1,100-member association didn't take a position on the fence bill, said Executive Director Patrick Bray. "We certainly appreciate the efforts put into this legislation, however the funding is a huge question. It's an empty solution because we don't know where the money is going to come from." Bray added: "We want to stay focused on the overall border security issue. At this point we are looking for a more comprehensive security approach rather than this pieces that might come to fruition." Ariz. seeks online donations to build border fence - Yahoo! News

05-08-2011, 10:47 PM	#3 (permalink)
saywhatkid Emerging from the sun Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: In space Posts: 7,271 Blog Entries: 2	Let's see how many of those tax-hating Conservatives line up to chip in for this. jillio likes this. __________________ "We ask you, brothers, to respect those who labor among you and are over you in the Lord and admonish you, and to esteem them very highly in love because of their work. Be at peace among yourselves." ~ 1 Thessalonians 5:12-13

05-09-2011, 09:22 PM	#6 (permalink)
saywhatkid Emerging from the sun Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: In space Posts: 7,271 Blog Entries: 2	This thread was started over 24 hours ago, and none of the usual anti-tax / anti-immigrant crowd has made an appearance. My guess is that the project will be unfunded. That leaves the Obama administration, which can either do nothing and be accused of doing nothing; or they can fund this project and be accused of more spending. Does anyone see this the way I do? __________________ "We ask you, brothers, to respect those who labor among you and are over you in the Lord and admonish you, and to esteem them very highly in love because of their work. Be at peace among yourselves." ~ 1 Thessalonians 5:12-13

05-11-2011, 04:25 PM	#7 (permalink)
saywhatkid Emerging from the sun Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: In space Posts: 7,271 Blog Entries: 2	__________________ "We ask you, brothers, to respect those who labor among you and are over you in the Lord and admonish you, and to esteem them very highly in love because of their work. Be at peace among yourselves." ~ 1 Thessalonians 5:12-13

05-11-2011, 08:07 PM	#8 (permalink)
sallylou Potterhead and Janeite Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: My own private Idaho Posts: 6,653	Oh, lard. If government officials really wanted to stop illegal immigration, all they would have to do is punish employers who hire illegal immigrants. Oh, yea, I forgot that the people who purchase--er, elect--our government officials want cheap, illegal labor that doesn't have any power to enforce safety standards. deafskeptic and Bebonang like this. __________________

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05-08-2011, 07:34 PM	#2 (permalink)
sequoias Premium Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Iowa, wind generation capital Posts: 21,947	If those inmates deserve it...then they do the job with a punishment. That includes the bad illegal immigrants do it for us. ;-)

05-12-2011, 01:56 AM	#12 (permalink)
Steinhauer Registered User Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 8,191 Blog Entries: 1	This article (not thread) wouldn't be timed just right for the speech given yesterday would it? The Dream Act failed. Get over it already. Obama will not have the overwhelming voter support from recently legalized illegals.

05-12-2011, 07:05 AM	#13 (permalink)
saywhatkid Emerging from the sun Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: In space Posts: 7,271 Blog Entries: 2	Don't know about the timing of this relating to a speech yesterday. The thread was started Sunday... __________________ "We ask you, brothers, to respect those who labor among you and are over you in the Lord and admonish you, and to esteem them very highly in love because of their work. Be at peace among yourselves." ~ 1 Thessalonians 5:12-13

05-12-2011, 08:45 AM	#14 (permalink)
PowerON Registered User Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: 37.5, 126.9 Posts: 10,385 Blog Entries: 5	It's necessary to have wall because it's too dangerous for people to cross and die out there. __________________ • [Illustrator.Blog-alloon.com] • Don't shoot me! I'm only blogger!

05-12-2011, 01:04 PM	#16 (permalink)
sallylou Potterhead and Janeite Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: My own private Idaho Posts: 6,653	Illegal Immigrants Paid $11.2 Billion in Taxes in 2010 Study Says Illegal Immigrants Paid $11.2 Billion in Taxes \| HyperVocal jillio likes this. __________________

05-12-2011, 07:34 PM	#30 (permalink)
sallylou Potterhead and Janeite Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: My own private Idaho Posts: 6,653	E-Verify already exists. DHS \| E-Verify __________________

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