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Unread 03-12-2011, 09:52 AM   #211 (permalink)
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So now, it's not "sharia laws", but "stoning laws"? We are then in agreement.
Good.

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What don't work, is to accuse me of calling your comments prejudical, when you at the same time change your claims, so they appear less prejudical. Good try.
You can review my original posts at #50, 52, 55, and 60. My "claims," as you call them, haven't changed

My basic statement, that Sharia law is not compatible with American law stands. If Muslims want to live in the United States, then they have to follow America's laws. That's the same condition for Christians, Jews, agnostics, atheists, animists, Buddhists, Hindus, whatever. No more, no less.

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I usually don't see hate and prejudices where there is none, but ask if it's hate and prejudices when a person don't care to express the logic behind his/her negative thoughts.
What negative thoughts?

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I haven't seen any posters on this forum embracing the idea of making sharia the foundation of the US constitution, and happy with whatever you are happy with.
I never said any posters embraced the idea of making Sharia the foundation of the US Constitution so I don't know why you bring it up.

Good. I'm happy with the Constitution of the United States.
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Unread 03-12-2011, 11:26 AM   #212 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Reba View Post
Good.


You can review my original posts at #50, 52, 55, and 60. My "claims," as you call them, haven't changed

My basic statement, that Sharia law is not compatible with American law stands. If Muslims want to live in the United States, then they have to follow America's laws. That's the same condition for Christians, Jews, agnostics, atheists, animists, Buddhists, Hindus, whatever. No more, no less.


What negative thoughts?


I never said any posters embraced the idea of making Sharia the foundation of the US Constitution so I don't know why you bring it up.

Good. I'm happy with the Constitution of the United States.
I'm not in the mood to continue those discussions about those small details. You have made your accusations(waiting for the "what accusations?" question..), and I've made mine.

As we mostly agree, I'll leave it here.
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Unread 03-12-2011, 12:16 PM   #213 (permalink)
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As we mostly agree, I'll leave it here.
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Unread 01-12-2012, 01:42 AM   #214 (permalink)
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Court: Okla. ban on Islamic law unconstitutional - CBS News
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Unread 01-12-2012, 02:00 AM   #215 (permalink)
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Good. It was absolutely unnecessary and reeked of islamaphobia. Why single out Sharia law?

There is no need for a law or amendment to assert the singular validity of US law in the United States.
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Unread 01-12-2012, 07:25 AM   #216 (permalink)
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Wow interesting!!
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Unread 01-12-2012, 12:57 PM   #217 (permalink)
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<lifts an a eyebrow in Spock like fashion> Wonder what the next action the Religious Right takes on it's lil war on Islam?
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Unread 01-12-2012, 01:27 PM   #218 (permalink)
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Would you accept the OK law if it didn't mention Sharia law specifically, or if it included all other religions' laws and international laws?
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Unread 01-12-2012, 01:28 PM   #219 (permalink)
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There is no need for a Judge in any court of law in America to use any religion law in a decision. Many say that the American laws are based on the Ten Commandments and that may be so but Congress has the only ability to make laws of which all Americans are subject to. A religious group may agree with the law or they minght disagree but they, as individuals, have to comply with the laws. Should a religious group have the position that their religious law allows them to do an action that the American laws does not (i.e. stoneing, whipping, pural marriage, child marriage) they are free to take their group to another country that will allow them to practice the way they feel. While in America, they are going to follow the American way or be accused and tried for breaking the laws in a court that does not allow religion to influence the Judges nor juries.
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Unread 01-12-2012, 01:32 PM   #220 (permalink)
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Open up any conservative magazine in the U.S. and you'll see the same thing, propaganda pure and simple.
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Unread 01-12-2012, 01:39 PM   #221 (permalink)
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Reba - very interesting. I remembered you mentioning there's no need for hate laws when there are already laws existing against crimes, period.

There'd be no need for a law forbidding a religion when there are laws already put in place to ensure no one can be exempt from illegal activities, no matter what religion they are (or are not). Like for example, honour killings, forced female circumsions, they are already illegal in the US, why the need for any amendments at all?

Secondly, why all this focus on Sharia law when somewhere in Utah, there are plural marriages that everyone is turning a blind eye to? Where was the US law when those young girls were forced to marry elderly pedophiles?
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Unread 01-12-2012, 01:52 PM   #222 (permalink)
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Reba - very interesting. I remembered you mentioning there's no need for hate laws when there are already laws existing against crimes, period.

There'd be no need for a law forbidding a religion when there are laws already put in place to ensure no one can be exempt from illegal activities, no matter what religion they are (or are not). Like for example, honour killings, forced female circumsions, they are already illegal in the US, why the need for any amendments at all?
I think it came up because some groups wanted to be able to use their own courts based on their cultures for some cases.

It doesn't seem that OK would need an additional law prohibiting "outside" laws if they carefully follow the laws that they already have in place.

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Secondly, why all this focus on Sharia law when somewhere in Utah, there are plural marriages that everyone is turning a blind eye to? Where was the US law when those young girls were forced to marry elderly pedophiles?
Good question about the plural marriages. I don't know why they allow them. I think some places are finally cracking down on the so-called marriages of young girls to dirty old men. Prosecution is often difficult in those cases because all the parties involved are so closed off from the outside. It's hard to get witnesses to testify.

Nailing Warren Jeffs was a good start.
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Unread 01-12-2012, 01:57 PM   #223 (permalink)
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Well, for sure I don't believe in making exemptions in court because of religion. that's a road one shouldn't go down on.
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Unread 01-12-2012, 02:13 PM   #224 (permalink)
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I think it came up because some groups wanted to be able to use their own courts based on their cultures for some cases.

It doesn't seem that OK would need an additional law prohibiting "outside" laws if they carefully follow the laws that they already have in place.


Good question about the plural marriages. I don't know why they allow them. I think some places are finally cracking down on the so-called marriages of young girls to dirty old men. Prosecution is often difficult in those cases because all the parties involved are so closed off from the outside. It's hard to get witnesses to testify.

Nailing Warren Jeffs was a good start.
How often is plural marriages in the U.S. being cracked down on?
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Unread 01-12-2012, 02:16 PM   #225 (permalink)
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How often is plural marriages in the U.S. being cracked down on?
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Unread 01-12-2012, 02:53 PM   #226 (permalink)
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How often is plural marriages in the U.S. being cracked down on?
The jeffs case is one, but the U.S. had a harder time in the past when religion had greater influence. Thankfully, times have changed a little.

Warren Jeffs - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Unread 01-12-2012, 03:20 PM   #227 (permalink)
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Would you accept the OK law if it didn't mention Sharia law specifically, or if it included all other religions' laws and international laws?
No, because it is redundant, as explained in the below post, to R7's credit.

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There is no need for a Judge in any court of law in America to use any religion law in a decision. Many say that the American laws are based on the Ten Commandments and that may be so but Congress has the only ability to make laws of which all Americans are subject to. A religious group may agree with the law or they minght disagree but they, as individuals, have to comply with the laws. Should a religious group have the position that their religious law allows them to do an action that the American laws does not (i.e. stoneing, whipping, pural marriage, child marriage) they are free to take their group to another country that will allow them to practice the way they feel. While in America, they are going to follow the American way or be accused and tried for breaking the laws in a court that does not allow religion to influence the Judges nor juries.
So based on this post, R7, do you feel that this law is unnecessary?
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Unread 01-12-2012, 03:29 PM   #228 (permalink)
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I looked at the article that link was to, and I saw it as a very ethnophobic, somewhat hateful article, the way it was printed.
I see similarities between that standpoint, and the history we have in the U.S. of the holocaust of Native people.

I agree with Alex - why add something else? Seems to be a divisive ruse or fear tactic-
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Unread 01-12-2012, 04:24 PM   #229 (permalink)
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No, because it is redundant, as explained in the below post, to R7's credit.



So based on this post, R7, do you feel that this law is unnecessary?
Yes
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Unread 01-12-2012, 06:20 PM   #230 (permalink)
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Last edited by airportcop; 01-12-2012 at 06:51 PM. Reason: double posted! oops!
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Unread 01-12-2012, 06:21 PM   #231 (permalink)
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America is the great melting pot where all cultures and languages are accepted. Accept, that English is and should be the primary or national language. We don't look down on other religions but we accept them as this is what America was founded on and for. But, we should not tolerate for even a second a religion wanting to make changes to our laws or add their laws to ours. We already have a government and a legal system. While it has problems we certainly do not want Sharia Law! We live in a flawed but none the less best country in the world! I like the way Australia thinks! I like Australians too!
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Last edited by airportcop; 01-12-2012 at 06:53 PM. Reason: correct
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Unread 01-12-2012, 06:28 PM   #232 (permalink)
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America is the great melting pot where all cultures and languages are accepted. Accept that English is and should be the primary or national language. We don't look down on other religions but we accept them as this is what America was founded on and for. But, we should not tolerate for even a second a religion wanting to make changes to our laws or add their laws to ours. We already have a government and a legal system. While it has problems we certainly do not want Sharia Law! We live in a flawed but none the less best country in the world! I like the way Australia thinks! I like Australians too!
Well, anti-gay rights, anti-abortion laws, ban on sales of sex toys and restriction on sales of alcoholic beverages on Sunday, especially in southern states are religious.
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Unread 01-12-2012, 06:31 PM   #233 (permalink)
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Well, anti-gay rights, anti-abortion laws, ban on sales of sex toys and restriction on sales of alcoholic beverages on Sunday, especially in southern states are religious.
On the other hand, an American ciitzen should be not exempted from illegal activities or punishment because of religion nor should they be given special consideration or given different treatment. The law is the law, period.
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Unread 01-12-2012, 06:58 PM   #234 (permalink)
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Well, anti-gay rights, anti-abortion laws, ban on sales of sex toys and restriction on sales of alcoholic beverages on Sunday, especially in southern states are religious.
Well, homosexual marriage and abortion used to be illegal in the U.S.. One thing about America that is different. If we don't like the laws here we can eventually change them if we try hard enough!
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Unread 01-12-2012, 07:38 PM   #235 (permalink)
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ok, you guys are talking about gay marriage and abortion not being legal, i am talking about no one should be exempted from being punished for breaking the law for religious reasons that others would have been prosecuted for.

two very different things.
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Unread 01-12-2012, 07:59 PM   #236 (permalink)
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Well, homosexual marriage and abortion used to be illegal in the U.S.. One thing about America that is different. If we don't like the laws here we can eventually change them if we try hard enough!
Homosexual marriage isn't illegal, it's just not recognized by the law. If gay people want to get married, they could. It's just that their marriage would not be recognized by the government and they would not be entitled to the same benefits as the heterosexual couples would be.
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Unread 01-12-2012, 08:08 PM   #237 (permalink)
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Foxrac, you are right about the southern states. My sister lives there. I couldn't believe it because some southern states have a very strange law which is obvious that it has to do with the churches.

My northern state requires all liquor shops to be closed on Sundays which is good idea. But in the southern states, why they close all the regular shops (any stores) on Sunday morning until 1 or 2 p.m. and then they close at around 4 p.m. Where is the fun that people can enjoy and walk around the stores on Sundays if they do not feel like to attend their church once a while? That is kind of creep to me. The malls in my area open from 11 a.m. to 6 p.m. For Monday to Saturday, it open at 10 a.m. until 9:30 p.m. It's because it is better for the employees to make money.
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Unread 01-12-2012, 08:11 PM   #238 (permalink)
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Foxrac, you are right about the southern states. My sister lives there. I couldn't believe it because some southern states have a very strange law which is obvious that it has to do with the churches.

My northern state requires all liquor shops to be closed on Sundays which is good idea. But in the southern states, why they close all the regular shops (any stores) on Sunday morning until 1 or 2 p.m. and then they close at around 4 p.m. Where is the fun that people can enjoy and walk around the stores on Sundays if they do not feel like to attend their church once a while? That is kind of creep to me.
Sunday shopping used to be illegal here in Ontario. The only places that were allowed to remain open were the gas stations, convenience stores and tourist areas. We finally made an amendment to the law to allow the stores to remain open on Sundays in 1992. Some people actually ended up in jail for breaking the law.
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Unread 01-12-2012, 08:18 PM   #239 (permalink)
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Foxrac, you are right about the southern states. My sister lives there. I couldn't believe it because some southern states have a very strange law which is obvious that it has to do with the churches.

My northern state requires all liquor shops to be closed on Sundays which is good idea. But in the southern states, why they close all the regular shops (any stores) on Sunday morning until 1 or 2 p.m. and then they close at around 4 p.m. Where is the fun that people can enjoy and walk around the stores on Sundays if they do not feel like to attend their church once a while? That is kind of creep to me. The malls in my area open from 11 a.m. to 6 p.m. For Monday to Saturday, it open at 10 a.m. until 9:30 p.m. It's because it is better for the employees to make money.
In Alabama, most stores open at between 10 am and 12 pm on Sunday but back in 1960's, most places closed, even mall, not anymore today.
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Unread 01-12-2012, 08:20 PM   #240 (permalink)
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Yes, I have encountered the Blue law when I was living in Louisana. I tried to buy picture frames but the cashier told me she couldn't sell them on Sundays.

More on Blue law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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