Happy Meal Banned - Page 9

**saywhatkid** · 12-23-2011, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeafCaroline

You know what? You're absolutely right, it should be up to the parents to make sure their kids eat properly but the parents are not exercising their voting powers to make sure junk food is not being served in schools and they keep jaunts to fast food joints a treat, not an everyday outing.
But they don't and meanwhile childhood obesity has quadrupled in the last 30 years, doctors have never seen this much diabetes in kids before and it's very concerning.

I do agree governments should not exercise how parents feed their kids but in this case, all they did was ban free toys with Happy Meals, they didn't ban junk food itself.

So, what should be done if parents continue to do nothing and the rate of obesity keeps going up and children incur diseases that normally don't happen to people till they're much older? If parents are directly responsible for giving their kids diabetes and other serious health problems, should there be no intervention at all, whatsoever?

I would hope Grandpa would slap the parents around and say "These grandkids are not gonna outlive us! Get off your chair and do something."

BTW, I want an Alvin action figure sometimes...

**Banjo** · 12-23-2011, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Journey

He's a she ;-). I thought it was common knowledge that kids are playing outside less and are chauffeured more but apparently kokonut disagrees with our experiences.

You are right, children are playing outside less than ever and chauffeured everywhere by their parents. I live in a neighbourhood full of kids, but only very few kids play outside. I'm talking about at least 100 kids on this street alone. I only see maybe 10 or less a day if I'm lucky.

**TXgolfer** · 12-23-2011, 03:37 PM

All the SF law did was require parents to drive to The burbs to get the toy.... So really all the law accomplished is increase air pollution and waste gas.

**Banjo** · 12-23-2011, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TXgolfer

All the SF law did was require parents to drive to The burbs to get the toy.... So really all the law did is increase air pollution and waste gas.

... and they could have used the time they wasted to cook a homemade meal.

kokonut · 12-23-2011, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeafCaroline

You're disagreeing with Journey that kids are playing outside less than they used to and actually asking him to supply aerial photos to prove this?

Are you really that absurd?

Where did I say that? I asked her if she has aerial photos to show the differences. She brought it up. I asked. It'd be interesting to see the differences. I am waiting for it.

kokonut · 12-23-2011, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeafCaroline

Yes I do live in Canada but I travel to the US every 2-3 months and stay on average between 2 and 4 weeks. Have been doing this for the past 3 years. Am I not allowed to make an observation on what I've noticed on my travels to the US? (Of which by the way, is PRESENTLY ongoing).

So, you travel to neighborhoods to neighborhoods?

kokonut · 12-23-2011, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Journey

I said, "If you could ...".

Wouldn't it be better to have photos on the ground instead? At least we can see the kids from their faces and stature rather than the top of their heads.

blondon704 · 12-23-2011, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kokonut

Wouldn't it be better to have photos on the ground instead? At least we can see the kids from their faces and stature rather than the top of their heads.

The point is whether these magical cameras be placed or not there won't be nearly as many kids out there that used to be, unless like Banjo said they are glued to their ds or portable stuff.

blondon704 · 12-23-2011, 04:21 PM

None of which has anything to do with the health factor of mcdonalds but whatever :-)

Journey · 12-23-2011, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kokonut

Wouldn't it be better to have photos on the ground instead? At least we can see the kids from their faces and stature rather than the top of their heads.

Kokonut, regardless of the topic or poster, I try to give every member the benefit of the doubt. Regardless of whether they agree or not or are not exactly on topic (we all digress at times, it's natural), I like to believe people think a little bit before they post. Please don't make me doubt my open-minded approach any more than this post already has.

Now just to clarify my original post about aerial photos so we can move on ... an aerial photo would give you an overall view of large sections (residences) of North America (rich, poor, young, old, city, suburb). It would be easy to see, at a glance, how activity in the streets has changed over the years. Again, it was just an "if" ponderance to help illustrate the idea of how children do not play outside like they once did. And, it related to the topic because earlier there was evolving discussion as to how fast food is not the only factor in the obesity epidemic.

kokonut · 12-23-2011, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Journey

Kokonut, regardless of the topic or poster, I try to give every member the benefit of the doubt. Regardless of whether they agree or not or are not exactly on topic (we all digress at times, it's natural), I like to believe people think a little bit before they post. Please don't make me doubt my open-minded approach any more than this post already has.

Now just to clarify my original post about aerial photos so we can move on ... an aerial photo would give you an overall view of large sections (residences) of North America (rich, poor, young, old, city, suburb). It would be easy to see, at a glance, how activity in the streets has changed over the years. Again, it was just an "if" ponderance to help illustrate the idea of how children do not play outside like they once did. And, it related to the topic because earlier there was evolving discussion as to how fast food is not the only factor in the obesity epidemic.

It'd be hard to tell. I work using aerial and satellite photos and all you see would be the top of their heads. Not really a good way to determine whether you got kids out in the street playing around which is why I said on the ground photos would be better. But even that isn't conclusive.

**Foxrac** · 12-23-2011, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kokonut

Let's the parents decide with their wallets instead of looney local govt acting as the ultimate nanny if it's healthy and nutritious.

Happy Meals :: McDonalds.com

Obesity has cost much of medical care.

MyNameIsNO · 12-24-2011, 01:35 AM

i did reading mcdonald ingredient for all food on website recent 10 min ago. it DISGUSTS!!! fake artifical ingredient.....french fries use many different weird oils! and too **** salt make easy give heart attack. anyone watching movie call "supersize me"? see what mcdonald food is do to man body? he eating ONLY is mcdonald food for 30 day. he gains weight and blood pressure go up, hard get intimiate with girlfriend bec mcdonald food ruin sex mood! it making him very sick and is ruins on health. ew! it poison food! but many parent i notice not giving children enough health and homecook food. they using gross frozen, fast food, box, can, jar etc. needing to teach children right food eat. not feeds them bad food like mcdonald and other as always! few time is okay not kills or ruin health. but children need education about real food then parent need cook better. that will reducing obesity!

kokonut · 12-24-2011, 02:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MyNameIsNO

i did reading mcdonald ingredient for all food on website recent 10 min ago. it DISGUSTS!!! fake artifical ingredient.....french fries use many different weird oils! and too **** salt make easy give heart attack. anyone watching movie call "supersize me"? see what mcdonald food is do to man body? he eating ONLY is mcdonald food for 30 day. he gains weight and blood pressure go up, hard get intimiate with girlfriend bec mcdonald food ruin sex mood! it making him very sick and is ruins on health. ew! it poison food! but many parent i notice not giving children enough health and homecook food. they using gross frozen, fast food, box, can, jar etc. needing to teach children right food eat. not feeds them bad food like mcdonald and other as always! few time is okay not kills or ruin health. but children need education about real food then parent need cook better. that will reducing obesity!

That was going to the extreme on over-eating. Unless you want to be that idiot on eating that much you'll have all of those health issues. Even if you ate 5000 to 6000 calories a day on "healthy food" as part of "3 meals a day) and not exercise daily you will gain weight. The guy who made that movie and starred in it, Mr. Spurlock, refuses to release his food log to see exactly what he ate and how much. He's a dishonest person. It's the amount of calories that you eat affects your bodyweight gain (or loss) rather than the kind of food you eat. There's no obesity epidemic. You can't catch obesity by standing next to a guy who is obviously obese.

Barbaro · 12-24-2011, 09:13 AM

I've watched Supersize Me, but that's not enough informative. I would like to see Mr.Spurlock food log as well. I believe that guy in the documentary, Fathead tried to contact Mr. Spurlock's representative asking for food log, so he can compare his diet to Spurlock's diet, but nope. Spurlock's nutritionist stated he was eating 5000 calories a day, the guy in Fathead did the math, and in order to reach that amount, he would have had to supersize every meal plus eat two desserts or something else. But he only supersized his meals 9 times throughout the ordeal. The result is that he lost 7 lbs, his cholesterol dropped a bit, and I am not sure if I remember- his blood sugar went up.

Spurlock had to shove that too many meals down his throat at a time, so he threw up all that meals. He could have hurt himself in that position.

Supersize Me showed the Subway guy who claims to have lost a lot of weight by only eating Subway, but Mr.Spurlock never went on to discuss the fact that this obviously wasn't done by eating the foot long sandwiches three times a day.

I'd rather that both Supersize Me and Fathead should mention thoroughly where meat and fries were made, how they are processed, omega 3, omega 6, etc.

sara1981 · 12-24-2011, 09:45 AM

That dumb! must let kids have happy meal food than nothing!

dogmom · 12-24-2011, 10:11 AM

I saw that movie Supersize me, and there's books, too, like Fast Food Nation.
Dr. Nestle has several books on both human and pet nutrition and the food industries, particularly describing the ties among various agencies and commercial agriculture.

I remember as a kid I spent most days outside except for the worst of the Winter months <am in Midwest>. I had a few young childhood friends in my neighborhood and we ran around outside, played ball in the street and alley, rode bikes, climbed trees, played games like "Tag" and "Bloody Murder" and pretended to be little Wonder Women. We looked for bugs and played in the dirt.
Sometimes my dad and I would play catch together and he taught me to ride a bike; we might go on a little hike to a park and walk through the woods together, or go swimming.

I grew up in a very urban area and about the time when I started high school, my immediate neighborhood got to be involved in lotta assaults and we had the cops come searching for people who ran through who held up such-and-such place. That was one night when I was about 14, when my dad was out working <for many years he's worked the night shift> and my mom was at a meeting. It was about 9pm and I thought I might take a bath and get ready for bed but then I thought I heard something in the portion of yard running between our house and the neighbor's. I had bad feeling so I stayed dressed and left the bathwater<which I'd had ready> sitting, and stayed up. About 20 minutes later, I started hearing tons of sirens all over the place and police car keeps going up and down the street w/searchlights; then they stopped at my front door. I was standing there watching this and the cop asked - seen or heard anything suspicious or unusual, has anyone run through here? I said- hadn't seen anything but had heard something and showed where. So we had more cops on my street and eventually they found the suspects <somewhere else, close> , who had been fleeing a armed hold-up a few blocks away. I stayed up for a few more hours with the phone and a knife in my hand, waiting for one of my parents to come home. My dad got home first and he was surprised I was still up. I explained and then HE stayed up, waiting for my mom <because at that time we still didn't know what was the outcome of the situation>.
Then there was a gang fight/shooting at a mall when I was there <which started becoming more common> and some elderly people getting off a bus across the street were assaulted, which my dad saw part of and got involved with that.

So in that kind of, and more dangerous situations, sadly, many kids grow up and it's actually not safe to play outside; going somewhere else is just as risky and there either are no parks or the parks are gang-controlled.

Journey · 12-24-2011, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kokonut

That was going to the extreme on over-eating. Unless you want to be that idiot on eating that much you'll have all of those health issues. Even if you ate 5000 to 6000 calories a day on "healthy food" as part of "3 meals a day) and not exercise daily you will gain weight. The guy who made that movie and starred in it, Mr. Spurlock, refuses to release his food log to see exactly what he ate and how much. He's a dishonest person. It's the amount of calories that you eat affects your bodyweight gain (or loss) rather than the kind of food you eat. There's no obesity epidemic. You can't catch obesity by standing next to a guy who is obviously obese.

An epidemic does not mean contagious in a medical sense, it simply means something that is very prevalent and/or spreading throughout a population rather rapidly. For example, cellphone use has reached epidemic proportions in the past decade, a pine beetle epidemic destroyed massive amounts of timber and, obesity is indeed an epidemic due to inactivity and unhealthy eating habits.

Eighty · 12-24-2011, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by souggy

Wirelessly posted

Why tax junk food? Just stop subdizing the oil industry, the pesticide industry and the corn industry, then junk food will be more expensive than organic.

There is absolutely no reason to tax any further when you look at the loopholes being exploited by the argibusiness corporations. It's time to close those loopholes.

Honestly I think its good idea to start with taxes instead of jumping in and mess around with other corporations just to "financially" suppress those unwanted businesses.

Taxing junk food manufacturers are MUCH more simpler and more controllable, than taking risk fiddling with industry economy.

kokonut · 12-24-2011, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Journey

An epidemic does not mean contagious in a medical sense, it simply means something that is very prevalent and/or spreading throughout a population rather rapidly. For example, cellphone use has reached epidemic proportions in the past decade, a pine beetle epidemic destroyed massive amounts of timber and, obesity is indeed an epidemic due to inactivity and unhealthy eating habits.

Maybe my tongue-in-cheek comment fell flat with you about standing next to an obese person and catching a death of a bodyfat?

Let me make it clear for you. No such thing as an obesity epidemic. Such usage of a term merely serve to exaggerate a condition to make it sound worse than it really is. Obesity exists, sure but at an epidemic proportion? No.

Quote:

Americans' recent weight gains have been widely described as an "obesity epidemic." Such a characterization, however, has many problems: the average American weight gain has been relatively low (eight to 12 pounds over the last 20 years), and the causal linkages between adiposity, morbidity, and mortality are unclear. Nevertheless, the media and numerous health officials continue to sound dire warnings that obesity has become an epidemic disease. In this article, I examine how and why America's growing weight became an "obesity epidemic." I find the disease characterization has less to do with the health consequences of excess weight and more with the various financial and political incentives of the weight loss industry, medical profession, and public health bureaucracy. This epidemic image was also assisted by the method of displaying information about weight gain with maps in PowerPoint slides. Such characterizations, I argue, are problematic. Given the inconclusive scientific evidence and the absence of a safe and effective weight loss regimen, calling America's growing weight an epidemic disease is likely to cause more harm than good.

The politics of pathology: how obesity bec... [Perspect Biol Med. 2006] - PubMed - NCBI

We become 8 to 12 pounds heavier on average. Not really indicative of an "obesity epidemic." Over that period of time period (1976 - 1996, in line with the timeline in the obesity abstract) we've also on average gained 4 years older on the life expectancy. So, that's something to consider.
World Bank, World Development Indicators - Google Public Data Explorer

The definition of “overweight” was changed by the CDC and suddenly we find millions Americans who became overweight or obese overnight.
http://dr.blair-west.com/2011/10/02/...fat-overnight/

Even stories of pilots who could not fly their planes because they were deemed as "overweight" but never mind the fact that their body fat was low, just that they happen to be fit bodybuilders. The body mass index (BMI) doesn't distinguish between fat and muscle. All of the bodybuilders today would considered to be overweight or even obese. Even many of the NFL football players, too.
Body Mass Index and Body Fat Percentage - Airline Pilot Central Forums

Heck, I was considered almost "obese" (see link below to use the BMI gauge) in my strongman training days at 5'8" at 190lbs while flipping500, 600, and 800lb tires.
Airline Pilot Central - What is BMI?

Obesity epidemic? Please.

An epidemic? Nah. A problem? Sure, in many places. You can have people who are categorized as "overweight" but are healthy as the next person.

Berry · 12-24-2011, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeafCaroline

Then why the high rate of childhood obesity if parents didn't need to be told what foods are bad and what foods are good?

Seems to me they do need to be told.

A large part because our society forces children to do a very unnatural thing all through their childhood. Sit at a desk for one, two, or more hours at a time. Quick recess, back in seat.

If the child does not like sitting still it is not because our system is abnormal it is because your child has ADD or worse. We need to give them drugs to help them become adjusted to sitting.

Even on the weekends kids now days kids spend time sitting doing homework.

Maybe the schools should be told to encourage just a tiny bit more physical activity. A few hundred calories worth a day ought to to it.

Grummer · 12-26-2011, 01:26 PM

...so they going to replace happy meal with killer meal or sad meal or fat meal?

Grummer · 12-26-2011, 01:27 PM

how about play meal?

kokonut · 12-26-2011, 01:29 PM

The name is not being replaced. Still a Happy Meal.

DeafCaroline · 12-26-2011, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Berry

A large part because our society forces children to do a very unnatural thing all through their childhood. Sit at a desk for one, two, or more hours at a time. Quick recess, back in seat.

If the child does not like sitting still it is not because our system is abnormal it is because your child has ADD or worse. We need to give them drugs to help them become adjusted to sitting.

Even on the weekends kids now days kids spend time sitting doing homework.

Maybe the schools should be told to encourage just a tiny bit more physical activity. A few hundred calories worth a day ought to to it.

The child is the parents' responsibility, not the school's. Kids sitting at desks haven't changed in over a hundred years so I can't really agree that obesity is linked to sitting at school or that it's the school's responsibility to make sure kids go outside and play every day. Ultimately, it's up to the parents to ensure their kids eat well and be active.

**KristinaB** · 12-26-2011, 03:05 PM

But, a lot of schools have also cut PE and recess from their schedules with budget cuts.

DeafCaroline · 12-26-2011, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KristinaB

But, a lot of schools have also cut PE and recess from their schedules with budget cuts.

Very unfortunate. Out of curiosity, what was gym replaced with that was cheaper?

**KristinaB** · 12-26-2011, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeafCaroline

Very unfortunate. Out of curiosity, what was gym replaced with that was cheaper?

The elementary schools that I know of had PE in the same area as the cafeteria and assemblies was held or outside in the fenced in field.

The middle and high schools still have their team sports and use the gyms that way, but dropped PE from the schedules. Just like some schools dropped music and drama, but still have the auditorium.

DeafCaroline · 12-26-2011, 04:39 PM

ok, i guess what i meant to ask was, what was gym replaced with?

**KristinaB** · 12-26-2011, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeafCaroline

ok, i guess what i meant to ask was, what was gym replaced with?

Oh - sorry - there was either study hall or a computer class or something like that. Some kids are getting a class for extra help in specific subjects, but most just get study hall.

12-23-2011, 03:37 PM	#243 (permalink)
TXgolfer Dream Weaver Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Everywhere Posts: 17,557	All the SF law did was require parents to drive to The burbs to get the toy.... So really all the law accomplished is increase air pollution and waste gas. __________________ Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good. - Romans 12:21 Sometimes at night, I see their faces. I feel the traces they've left on my soul

12-24-2011, 09:13 AM	#255 (permalink)
Barbaro Registered User Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: dæləs Posts: 1,308	I've watched Supersize Me, but that's not enough informative. I would like to see Mr.Spurlock food log as well. I believe that guy in the documentary, Fathead tried to contact Mr. Spurlock's representative asking for food log, so he can compare his diet to Spurlock's diet, but nope. Spurlock's nutritionist stated he was eating 5000 calories a day, the guy in Fathead did the math, and in order to reach that amount, he would have had to supersize every meal plus eat two desserts or something else. But he only supersized his meals 9 times throughout the ordeal. The result is that he lost 7 lbs, his cholesterol dropped a bit, and I am not sure if I remember- his blood sugar went up. Spurlock had to shove that too many meals down his throat at a time, so he threw up all that meals. He could have hurt himself in that position. Supersize Me showed the Subway guy who claims to have lost a lot of weight by only eating Subway, but Mr.Spurlock never went on to discuss the fact that this obviously wasn't done by eating the foot long sandwiches three times a day. I'd rather that both Supersize Me and Fathead should mention thoroughly where meat and fries were made, how they are processed, omega 3, omega 6, etc. __________________ We know what we are but not what we may be. -Author:Shakespeare

12-24-2011, 09:45 AM	#256 (permalink)
sara1981 Registered User Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: North Little Rock,Ar Posts: 7,049	That dumb! must let kids have happy meal food than nothing! __________________

12-26-2011, 01:26 PM	#262 (permalink)
Grummer Registered User Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: In the Batcave Posts: 9,503	...so they going to replace happy meal with killer meal or sad meal or fat meal? __________________ "Problems cannot be solved at the same level of awareness that created them." Albert Einstein

12-26-2011, 01:27 PM	#263 (permalink)
Grummer Registered User Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: In the Batcave Posts: 9,503	how about play meal? __________________ "Problems cannot be solved at the same level of awareness that created them." Albert Einstein

Today
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12-23-2011, 04:21 PM	#249 (permalink)
blondon704 Registered User Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: I live in the nowhere of all nowheres! Posts: 236	None of which has anything to do with the health factor of mcdonalds but whatever :-)

12-24-2011, 01:35 AM	#253 (permalink)
MyNameIsNO Banned Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 692	i did reading mcdonald ingredient for all food on website recent 10 min ago. it DISGUSTS!!! fake artifical ingredient.....french fries use many different weird oils! and too **** salt make easy give heart attack. anyone watching movie call "supersize me"? see what mcdonald food is do to man body? he eating ONLY is mcdonald food for 30 day. he gains weight and blood pressure go up, hard get intimiate with girlfriend bec mcdonald food ruin sex mood! it making him very sick and is ruins on health. ew! it poison food! but many parent i notice not giving children enough health and homecook food. they using gross frozen, fast food, box, can, jar etc. needing to teach children right food eat. not feeds them bad food like mcdonald and other as always! few time is okay not kills or ruin health. but children need education about real food then parent need cook better. that will reducing obesity!

12-24-2011, 10:11 AM	#257 (permalink)
dogmom Registered User Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 5,469	I saw that movie Supersize me, and there's books, too, like Fast Food Nation. Dr. Nestle has several books on both human and pet nutrition and the food industries, particularly describing the ties among various agencies and commercial agriculture. I remember as a kid I spent most days outside except for the worst of the Winter months <am in Midwest>. I had a few young childhood friends in my neighborhood and we ran around outside, played ball in the street and alley, rode bikes, climbed trees, played games like "Tag" and "Bloody Murder" and pretended to be little Wonder Women. We looked for bugs and played in the dirt. Sometimes my dad and I would play catch together and he taught me to ride a bike; we might go on a little hike to a park and walk through the woods together, or go swimming. I grew up in a very urban area and about the time when I started high school, my immediate neighborhood got to be involved in lotta assaults and we had the cops come searching for people who ran through who held up such-and-such place. That was one night when I was about 14, when my dad was out working <for many years he's worked the night shift> and my mom was at a meeting. It was about 9pm and I thought I might take a bath and get ready for bed but then I thought I heard something in the portion of yard running between our house and the neighbor's. I had bad feeling so I stayed dressed and left the bathwater<which I'd had ready> sitting, and stayed up. About 20 minutes later, I started hearing tons of sirens all over the place and police car keeps going up and down the street w/searchlights; then they stopped at my front door. I was standing there watching this and the cop asked - seen or heard anything suspicious or unusual, has anyone run through here? I said- hadn't seen anything but had heard something and showed where. So we had more cops on my street and eventually they found the suspects <somewhere else, close> , who had been fleeing a armed hold-up a few blocks away. I stayed up for a few more hours with the phone and a knife in my hand, waiting for one of my parents to come home. My dad got home first and he was surprised I was still up. I explained and then HE stayed up, waiting for my mom <because at that time we still didn't know what was the outcome of the situation>. Then there was a gang fight/shooting at a mall when I was there <which started becoming more common> and some elderly people getting off a bus across the street were assaulted, which my dad saw part of and got involved with that. So in that kind of, and more dangerous situations, sadly, many kids grow up and it's actually not safe to play outside; going somewhere else is just as risky and there either are no parks or the parks are gang-controlled.

12-26-2011, 01:29 PM	#264 (permalink)
kokonut Registered User Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 15,348	The name is not being replaced. Still a Happy Meal. __________________ Before AD. After AD. "Restriction on free thought and free speech is the most dangerous of all subversions. It is the one un-American act that could most easily defeat us." -Thurgood Marshall, former Supreme Court Justice "... turns out they are telling the truth."

12-26-2011, 03:05 PM	#266 (permalink)
KristinaB New SDIT Deacon Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Land of the backstroke Posts: 13,745	But, a lot of schools have also cut PE and recess from their schedules with budget cuts. deafskeptic likes this. __________________ Taking life one day at a time.

12-26-2011, 04:39 PM	#269 (permalink)
DeafCaroline Registered User Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 4,889	ok, i guess what i meant to ask was, what was gym replaced with?

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