Hurray for Chicago!!!! - Page 3

jillio · 06-29-2010, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beowulf

I agree. The system is moronic beyond words.

Well, now. We can't have those criminal voting for a candidate that would support reform of our penal system, now could we?

**Banjo** · 06-29-2010, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

Well, now. We can't have those criminal voting for a candidate that would support reform of our penal system, now could we?

Well, now. We can't have those fat cats voting for a candidate that would support reform of our financial system, now could we?

Hee hee.

jillio · 06-29-2010, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Banjo

Well, now. We can't have those fat cats voting for a candidate that would support reform of our financial system, now could we?

Hee hee.

Remove their voting rights!

**Beowulf** · 06-29-2010, 11:46 AM

Yeah, jillio, and what gets my goat is that a state's prison population skews congressional districts because they count as census population in the prison's district rather than the district the prisoner was in before being incarcerated. Phooey.
Sorry for being off topic.

jillio · 06-29-2010, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beowulf

Yeah, jillio, and what gets my goat is that a state's prison population skews congressional districts because they count as census population in the prison's district rather than the district the prisoner was in before being incarcerated. Phooey.
Sorry for being off topic.

Yep. The political advantage of making sure a prison locates to your district.

**TXgolfer** · 06-29-2010, 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

Southside of Chicago--I don't think they're Confederates.

**Foxrac** · 07-03-2010, 01:21 AM

Chicago City Council passes new gun ordinance

(CNN) -- The Chicago, Illinois, City Council in a 45-0 vote approved a new gun ordinance Friday, four days after the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that the city's 28-year-old strict ban on handgun ownership was unconstitutional.

Among other details, the ordinance allows only one operable firearm per household, meaning all other guns would need to have gun locks or be in locked cases. It also requires owners to have a state firearms permit, to register weapons with Chicago police and to take four hours of classroom training and one hour of firing range training.

The plan also bans assault weapons and gun shops in the city.

The June 28 Supreme Court ruling overturned the city's previous handgun ban.

"Although the ruling wasn't what we had hoped for, it was what we expected," said Chicago Mayor Richard Daley. "That's why for the last several months we've been preparing the reasonable and responsible ordinance to regulate handguns in the home that the council approved today. ...

"Either we enact new and reasonable handgun laws in Chicago to protect our residents -- as the council has done -- or we do nothing and risk greater gun violence in our streets and in our homes," he said.

A 5-4 conservative majority of justices on Monday reiterated its 2-year-old conclusion that the Constitution gives individuals equal or greater power than states on the issue of possession of certain firearms for self-protection.

"It cannot be doubted that the right to bear arms was regarded as a substantive guarantee, not a prohibition that could be ignored so long as states legislated in an evenhanded manner," wrote Justice Samuel Alito.

The court grounded that right in the due process section of the 14th Amendment. The justices, however, said local jurisdictions still retain the flexibility to preserve some "reasonable" gun-control measures currently in place nationwide.

Chicago City Council passes new gun ordinance - CNN.com

**Jiro** · 07-03-2010, 04:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Foxrac

Chicago City Council passes new gun ordinance

(CNN) -- The Chicago, Illinois, City Council in a 45-0 vote approved a new gun ordinance Friday, four days after the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that the city's 28-year-old strict ban on handgun ownership was unconstitutional.

Among other details, the ordinance allows only one operable firearm per household, meaning all other guns would need to have gun locks or be in locked cases. It also requires owners to have a state firearms permit, to register weapons with Chicago police and to take four hours of classroom training and one hour of firing range training.

The plan also bans assault weapons and gun shops in the city.

The June 28 Supreme Court ruling overturned the city's previous handgun ban.

"Although the ruling wasn't what we had hoped for, it was what we expected," said Chicago Mayor Richard Daley. "That's why for the last several months we've been preparing the reasonable and responsible ordinance to regulate handguns in the home that the council approved today. ...

"Either we enact new and reasonable handgun laws in Chicago to protect our residents -- as the council has done -- or we do nothing and risk greater gun violence in our streets and in our homes," he said.

A 5-4 conservative majority of justices on Monday reiterated its 2-year-old conclusion that the Constitution gives individuals equal or greater power than states on the issue of possession of certain firearms for self-protection.

"It cannot be doubted that the right to bear arms was regarded as a substantive guarantee, not a prohibition that could be ignored so long as states legislated in an evenhanded manner," wrote Justice Samuel Alito.

The court grounded that right in the due process section of the 14th Amendment. The justices, however, said local jurisdictions still retain the flexibility to preserve some "reasonable" gun-control measures currently in place nationwide.

Chicago City Council passes new gun ordinance - CNN.com

they still don't get it

**Reba** · 07-03-2010, 07:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Foxrac

Chicago City Council passes new gun ordinance

(CNN) -- The Chicago, Illinois, City Council in a 45-0 vote approved a new gun ordinance Friday, four days after the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that the city's 28-year-old strict ban on handgun ownership was unconstitutional.

Among other details, the ordinance allows only one operable firearm per household, meaning all other guns would need to have gun locks or be in locked cases. It also requires owners to have a state firearms permit, to register weapons with Chicago police and to take four hours of classroom training and one hour of firing range training.

The plan also bans assault weapons and gun shops in the city.

The June 28 Supreme Court ruling overturned the city's previous handgun ban.

"Although the ruling wasn't what we had hoped for, it was what we expected," said Chicago Mayor Richard Daley. "That's why for the last several months we've been preparing the reasonable and responsible ordinance to regulate handguns in the home that the council approved today. ...

"Either we enact new and reasonable handgun laws in Chicago to protect our residents -- as the council has done -- or we do nothing and risk greater gun violence in our streets and in our homes," he said.

A 5-4 conservative majority of justices on Monday reiterated its 2-year-old conclusion that the Constitution gives individuals equal or greater power than states on the issue of possession of certain firearms for self-protection.

"It cannot be doubted that the right to bear arms was regarded as a substantive guarantee, not a prohibition that could be ignored so long as states legislated in an evenhanded manner," wrote Justice Samuel Alito.

The court grounded that right in the due process section of the 14th Amendment. The justices, however, said local jurisdictions still retain the flexibility to preserve some "reasonable" gun-control measures currently in place nationwide.

Chicago City Council passes new gun ordinance - CNN.com

Just as I said would happen. The "ban" is lifted but the city adds other restrictions.

diehardbiker · 07-03-2010, 08:40 AM

Relax gun laws make it worse, said Chicago politicans? Baloney!

Here is proof, in Houston, Texas they have the least restrictive and yet their violent crimes are lower than Chicago, IL.

Compare Crime Rates Houston, TX - Chicago, IL

Outlaws guns, then outlaws will have the guns, no question!

**Foxrac** · 07-03-2010, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by diehardbiker

Relax gun laws make it worse, said Chicago politicans? Baloney!

Here is proof, in Houston, Texas they have the least restrictive and yet their violent crimes are lower than Chicago, IL.

Compare Crime Rates Houston, TX - Chicago, IL

Outlaws guns, then outlaws will have the guns, no question!

Yes via black market, in LA and NYC, you can get guns via black market, however crime rate in LA and NYC are lower than numerous largest cities in the US.

Ban on guns won't work in the US but in UK, probably because of nation since gun laws in the US is difference from state to state.

**Foxrac** · 07-03-2010, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

Just as I said would happen. The "ban" is lifted but the city adds other restrictions.

Same here, I know about what Chicago would going to do since they are very anti-gun city, similar to NYC and NJ.

diehardbiker · 07-03-2010, 12:10 PM

Work in UK? Are you kidding? Their crime rate has skyrocketed, are you aware of this?

wanna proof? Here it is... http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/1440764.stm

Crimes shot up 40% in the last two years, just right after ban became effective, go figure!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Foxrac

Yes via black market, in LA and NYC, you can get guns via black market, however crime rate in LA and NYC are lower than numerous largest cities in the US.

Ban on guns won't work in the US but in UK, probably because of nation since gun laws in the US is difference from state to state.

**Foxrac** · 07-03-2010, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by diehardbiker

Work in UK? Are you kidding? Their crime rate has skyrocketed, are you aware of this?

wanna proof? Here it is... BBC News | UK | Handgun crime 'up' despite ban

Crimes shot up 40% in the last two years, just right after ban became effective, go figure!

Look at my quote again, I said probably, it means maybe.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Foxrac

Yes via black market, in LA and NYC, you can get guns via black market, however crime rate in LA and NYC are lower than numerous largest cities in the US.

Ban on guns won't work in the US but in UK, probably because of nation since gun laws in the US is difference from state to state.

The crime, especially murder in UK is still lower when compare to US.
Murders (per capita) statistics - countries compared - NationMaster

The article that you posted was from 2001.

**Foxrac** · 07-03-2010, 12:32 PM

I found other article about UK, that's from 2009.

Britain records 18% fall in gun deaths - Crime, UK - The Independent
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...-a-decade.html

**Jiro** · 07-03-2010, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Foxrac

I found other article about UK, that's from 2009.

Britain records 18% fall in gun deaths - Crime, UK - The Independent
Gun crime doubles in a decade - Telegraph

that's GUN deaths but what about violent cases? How are British people supposed to protect themselves from violent offender? Murder is not an issue in here. It's the serious injury that I'm worried about.

**Foxrac** · 07-03-2010, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

that's GUN deaths but what about violent cases? How are British people supposed to protect themselves from violent offender? Murder is not an issue in here. It's the serious injury that I'm worried about.

Maybe knifes, in house alarm, learn to defend yourself without guns or call police, all of them works if enemy is unarmed, or try find guns via black market and hide it, I dunno. I don't live in UK and don't know about deal with gun ban law.

I think that UK doesn't have constitution that protect gun rights, unlike US does, we have 2nd Amendment.

AndyE9503 · 07-05-2010, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Foxrac

Maybe knifes, in house alarm, learn to defend yourself without guns or call police, all of them works if enemy is unarmed, or try find guns via black market and hide it, I dunno. I don't live in UK and don't know about deal with gun ban law.

I think that UK doesn't have constitution that protect gun rights, unlike US does, we have 2nd Amendment.

Knifes are very hard to use to fight and very easy to be turned against you because you have to get real close to them
House alarm will help against the basic criminals but not reliable
Self Defense cost a lot of money and time to learn
Police are completely unreliable and take too long to respond. Takes about 20 min here

As long as criminals have guns law abiding citizens need guns too. It levels the playing field. I'm not saying your ideas are completely wrong, I would just rather have my trusty 12 gauge short barrel shotty and my 40 cal S&W first

**Foxrac** · 07-05-2010, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndyE9503

Knifes are very hard to use to fight and very easy to be turned against you because you have to get real close to them
House alarm will help against the basic criminals but not reliable
Self Defense cost a lot of money and time to learn
Police are completely unreliable and take too long to respond. Takes about 20 min here

As long as criminals have guns law abiding citizens need guns too. It levels the playing field. I'm not saying your ideas are completely wrong, I would just rather have my trusty 12 gauge short barrel shotty and my 40 cal S&W first

Ok, my suggestion is for British people and other countries with heavily gun restriction, same with US if some local have gun restriction that make difficult for citizens to be armed, especially DC and Chicago.

For me, I don't think that I want to be armed because of state and local have many different of complexes and tricky laws that could leading armed citizens to arrest and face jail time that what I don't want. Some gun laws are hard to understand and I can be tricked so easily to get in trouble with police, especially gun unfriendly states. For situation with criminal, sometime, I think that life is too short and we don't know about what happen to us tomorrow or later.

For response to 911, the cops arrive in our house in 5 min or less so it is depends on local.

**Jiro** · 07-05-2010, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Foxrac

Ok, my suggestion is for British people and other countries with heavily gun restriction, same with US if some local have gun restriction that make difficult for citizens to be armed, especially DC and Chicago.

For me, I don't think that I want to be armed because of state and local have many different of complexes and tricky laws that could leading armed citizens to arrest and face jail time that what I don't want. Some gun laws are hard to understand and I can be tricked so easily to get in trouble with police, especially gun unfriendly states. For situation with criminal, sometime, I think that life is too short and we don't know about what happen to us tomorrow or later.

For response to 911, the cops arrive in our house in 5 min or less so it is depends on local.

5 minutes is far too long. You will be dead long before cops come. 5 seconds is how long it takes to get killed.

**Foxrac** · 07-05-2010, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

5 minutes is far too long. You will be dead long before cops come. 5 seconds is how long it takes to get killed.

Don't care, I'm just compare to other police dept so local police dept are different when response to 911.

**Jiro** · 07-05-2010, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Foxrac

Don't care, I'm just compare to other police dept so local police dept are different when response to 911.

**Foxrac** · 07-05-2010, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

I don't care if 911 call is no help, I'm just tell about response to 911 is varies by local police dept like Andy said it takes 20 min for cops to come and it is 5 mins for cops to come to our house.

**Foxrac** · 07-05-2010, 10:03 PM

I don't disagree with you either, alternative to protect yourself that I suggested is no win against gun owners. I think about knife throwing (require training) and put pitbulls in house or in yard.

Jiro, what is your solution if people in countries that have strict gun restriction or totally banned, and American citizens who don't want get guns or disqualify to get guns due failed background checks and some reasons so how they can protect or deal with criminal?

I do know that you said about they are ****ed up and SOL.

**Reba** · 07-05-2010, 10:16 PM

I wouldn't recommend putting pit bull dogs in your yard; that's a huge legal liability problem that carries its own dangers.

**Jiro** · 07-05-2010, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Foxrac

I don't care if 911 call is no help, I'm just tell about response to 911 is varies by local police dept like Andy said it takes 20 min for cops to come and it is 5 mins for cops to come to our house.

5 minutes or 20 minutes. you're still either dead or seriously injured because you had nothing to defend yourself with. It's pretty common for sheriff to arrive as long as 20 min or longer in most America. Amendment 2 solved this problem

The response time is significantly shorter in major cities or metropolitan area.

**Jiro** · 07-05-2010, 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Foxrac

I don't disagree with you either, alternative to protect yourself that I suggested is no win against gun owners. I think about knife throwing (require training) and put pitbulls in house or in yard.

Jiro, what is your solution if people in countries that have strict gun restriction or totally banned, and American citizens who don't want get guns or disqualify to get guns due failed background checks and some reasons so how they can protect or deal with criminal?

I do know that you said about they are ****ed up and SOL.

my solution? promote Amendment 2. or move somewhere else. for Americans who don't want to get guns? call 911.

for those who doesn't qualify for guns? not my problem. They failed the background check because they're either a criminal or a psycho. same solution as above - call 911.

**Foxrac** · 07-05-2010, 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

5 minutes or 20 minutes. you're still either dead or seriously injured because you had nothing to defend yourself with. It's pretty common for sheriff to arrive as long as 20 min or longer in most America. Amendment 2 solved this problem

The response time is significantly shorter in major cities or metropolitan area.

Like I said - I don't care because call 911 is not effective, not winner as gun owners that deal with criminal.

FYI, I live in small city with 4,000 population.

**Jiro** · 07-05-2010, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Foxrac

Like I said - I don't care because call 911 is not effective, not winner as gun owners that deal with criminal.

FYI, I live in small city with 4,000 population.

your latest responses here are not making any sense at all..... try again.

**Foxrac** · 07-05-2010, 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

my solution? promote Amendment 2. or move somewhere else. for Americans who don't want to get guns? call 911.

for those who doesn't qualify for guns? not my problem. They failed the background check because they're either a criminal or a psycho. same solution as above - call 911.

Amendment 2 isn't applies to all countries, just USA only and some countries may have own constitution or laws that promote gun rights.

I don't see gun rights as my major concern for relocation and I prefer to live in urban, obviously gun control law is very common in urban area since small city and rural are very gun friendly.

Well, I know about one man in my area failed the background check because of juvenile record due fighting in high school in past. I asked my friend about juvenile record could affect background check so he said it could be happen. I found somewhere on internet about one guy from Mich failed the background check because of OCD and disqualified from get guns.

Well, you said about call 911 is not effective to save your live so I agree with you.

07-03-2010, 01:21 AM	#67 (permalink)
Foxrac Need Stormtroopers? Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Zaphias Posts: 32,666	Chicago City Council passes new gun ordinance (CNN) -- The Chicago, Illinois, City Council in a 45-0 vote approved a new gun ordinance Friday, four days after the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that the city's 28-year-old strict ban on handgun ownership was unconstitutional. Among other details, the ordinance allows only one operable firearm per household, meaning all other guns would need to have gun locks or be in locked cases. It also requires owners to have a state firearms permit, to register weapons with Chicago police and to take four hours of classroom training and one hour of firing range training. The plan also bans assault weapons and gun shops in the city. The June 28 Supreme Court ruling overturned the city's previous handgun ban. "Although the ruling wasn't what we had hoped for, it was what we expected," said Chicago Mayor Richard Daley. "That's why for the last several months we've been preparing the reasonable and responsible ordinance to regulate handguns in the home that the council approved today. ... "Either we enact new and reasonable handgun laws in Chicago to protect our residents -- as the council has done -- or we do nothing and risk greater gun violence in our streets and in our homes," he said. A 5-4 conservative majority of justices on Monday reiterated its 2-year-old conclusion that the Constitution gives individuals equal or greater power than states on the issue of possession of certain firearms for self-protection. "It cannot be doubted that the right to bear arms was regarded as a substantive guarantee, not a prohibition that could be ignored so long as states legislated in an evenhanded manner," wrote Justice Samuel Alito. The court grounded that right in the due process section of the 14th Amendment. The justices, however, said local jurisdictions still retain the flexibility to preserve some "reasonable" gun-control measures currently in place nationwide. Chicago City Council passes new gun ordinance - CNN.com __________________ In Moto We Trust

07-03-2010, 08:40 AM	#70 (permalink)
diehardbiker Registered User Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: In back of Superduty Posts: 11,297	Relax gun laws make it worse, said Chicago politicans? Baloney! Here is proof, in Houston, Texas they have the least restrictive and yet their violent crimes are lower than Chicago, IL. Compare Crime Rates Houston, TX - Chicago, IL Outlaws guns, then outlaws will have the guns, no question! __________________ J-MAC's quote: "People who try and fail are more superior than people who don't try at all" "If people let the government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as the souls who live under tyranny." Thomas Jefferson (1778) Avatar picture is Cape Hatteras light house in OBX.

07-03-2010, 12:32 PM	#75 (permalink)
Foxrac Need Stormtroopers? Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Zaphias Posts: 32,666	I found other article about UK, that's from 2009. Britain records 18% fall in gun deaths - Crime, UK - The Independent http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...-a-decade.html __________________ In Moto We Trust

07-05-2010, 10:03 PM	#84 (permalink)
Foxrac Need Stormtroopers? Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Zaphias Posts: 32,666	I don't disagree with you either, alternative to protect yourself that I suggested is no win against gun owners. I think about knife throwing (require training) and put pitbulls in house or in yard. Jiro, what is your solution if people in countries that have strict gun restriction or totally banned, and American citizens who don't want get guns or disqualify to get guns due failed background checks and some reasons so how they can protect or deal with criminal? I do know that you said about they are **ed up and SOL. __________________ In Moto We Trust**

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06-29-2010, 11:46 AM	#64 (permalink)
Beowulf Premium Member Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 10,515	Yeah, jillio, and what gets my goat is that a state's prison population skews congressional districts because they count as census population in the prison's district rather than the district the prisoner was in before being incarcerated. Phooey. Sorry for being off topic.

07-05-2010, 10:16 PM	#85 (permalink)
Reba Granny Terp Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: South Carolina Posts: 39,218	I wouldn't recommend putting pit bull dogs in your yard; that's a huge legal liability problem that carries its own dangers.