Arizona governor signs immigration bill - Page 7

whatdidyousay! · 04-25-2010, 11:19 AM

Obama tells feds to check Arizona immigration bill - Washington Times

Here the link about Obama telling feds to check out the bill !

**TWA** · 04-25-2010, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kokonut

It's closer to 19,000 rather than 16,000.
FASTSTATS - Homicide

I'd grant that 9,000 is high though unconfirmed. Yet the 9,000 would come out to be 1 murder every 2 days in every state. In Phoenix alone there were 241 murders in one year. About 83 percent of homicide warrants in Phoenix are issued for illegal aliens. Phoenix is a population of 1.4 million. And this is just for the city alone, not the state.

Two illegal aliens charged with murder of South Carolina man

Phoenix Crime Statistics (AZ) - CityRating.com

What do you think the murder rate is?

Ah, I was using the data from 2008. Couldn't find the most current. It's too bad overall rates have gone up recently, but still nothing compared to the early 90s when murder rates were consistently well above 20k per year.

First, I don't know what the actual murder rate of illegal citizens is. I wouldn't even try to make a guess on that, even if I had a lot of good information. I don't think anyone knows the real number, but I think it's preposterous to think that close to half the murders in this country are committed by illegal aliens. If that is really the case, then goddamn, I am getting a gun and heading to the border to become a minuteman. Lol.

Next, I would wager that a majority of those homicides committed by illegal aliens are committed against OTHER illegal aliens. I'm not saying that's a good thing, but it exposes a flaw in your rhetoric, since what you're trying to do is incite anger over the murdering of US citizens by illegal aliens.

Next, I question the factual accuracy of that news report you cited. I cannot believe, for a second, that 95% of homicide warrants in LA are for illegal immigrants. I mean, we're talking about the city of the Bloods and the Crips here. Also, since it provided no links and I can't see the original source information, I really take it with a grain of salt. It's probably not an outright lie, but manipulation of facts by statistics.

**Foxrac** · 04-25-2010, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whatdidyousay!

Why are you yelling your head off!

because kokonut won't read about if it was my opinion and saying same words over again.

I'm not yelling but just make fonts bigger for him to read so properly.

kokonut · 04-25-2010, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheWriteAlex

Ah, I was using the data from 2008. Couldn't find the most current. It's too bad overall rates have gone up recently, but still nothing compared to the early 90s when murder rates were consistently well above 20k per year.

First, I don't know what the actual murder rate of illegal citizens is. I wouldn't even try to make a guess on that, even if I had a lot of good information. I don't think anyone knows the real number, but I think it's preposterous to think that close to half the murders in this country are committed by illegal aliens. If that is really the case, then goddamn, I am getting a gun and heading to the border to become a minuteman. Lol.

Next, I would wager that a majority of those homicides committed by illegal aliens are committed against OTHER illegal aliens. I'm not saying that's a good thing, but it exposes a flaw in your rhetoric, since what you're trying to do is incite anger over the murdering of US citizens by illegal aliens.

Next, I question the factual accuracy of that news report you cited. I cannot believe, for a second, that 95% of homicide warrants in LA are for illegal immigrants. I mean, we're talking about the city of the Bloods and the Crips here. Also, since it provided no links and I can't see the original source information, I really take it with a grain of salt. It's probably not an outright lie, but manipulation of facts by statistics.

You have to consider also people killed in DUI related auto accidents where a good portion of the percentages are caused by illegal aliens.

Crime victims of illegal aliens
Victims of Illegal Aliens Memorial, Memorial, illegal alien, victim, murdered, killed, David March, Daniel Golden, Ruben Morfin, Scott Gardner, Kris Eggle, Marc Atkinson, OJJPAC, ohio jobs and justice, Steve Salvi, Salvi, ojjpac.org, shaw, killed by

And then you have problems with sanctuary cities as well.

YouTube - More Americans Killed By Illegal Aliens Than In Iraq

Quote:

Illegal aliens are killing more Americans than the Iraq war, says a new report from Family Security Matters.org that estimates some 2,158 murders are committed every year by illegal aliens in the U.S. The group says that number is more than 15 percent of all the murders reported by the Federal Bureau of Investigation in the U.S. and about three times the representation of illegal aliens in the general population....

Yet there were 2397 deaths to American troops in Iraq between 3/21/03 and 4/30/06. In other words, three times less the killing rate than those Americans murdered in the United States by illegal aliens. I guess you better grab your guns then, this is worse than Iraq.

Plus they cost us Americans more than just taxes.
Illegal Aliens Cost Americans More than TaxesPublications Family Security Matters

Yes, we're a nation of immigrants but we're also a nation of laws. Why the political correctness to defend illegal aliens?

**Foxrac** · 04-25-2010, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheWriteAlex

Ah, I was using the data from 2008. Couldn't find the most current. It's too bad overall rates have gone up recently, but still nothing compared to the early 90s when murder rates were consistently well above 20k per year.

First, I don't know what the actual murder rate of illegal citizens is. I wouldn't even try to make a guess on that, even if I had a lot of good information. I don't think anyone knows the real number, but I think it's preposterous to think that close to half the murders in this country are committed by illegal aliens. If that is really the case, then goddamn, I am getting a gun and heading to the border to become a minuteman. Lol.

Next, I would wager that a majority of those homicides committed by illegal aliens are committed against OTHER illegal aliens. I'm not saying that's a good thing, but it exposes a flaw in your rhetoric, since what you're trying to do is incite anger over the murdering of US citizens by illegal aliens.

Next, I question the factual accuracy of that news report you cited. I cannot believe, for a second, that 95% of homicide warrants in LA are for illegal immigrants. I mean, we're talking about the city of the Bloods and the Crips here. Also, since it provided no links and I can't see the original source information, I really take it with a grain of salt. It's probably not an outright lie, but manipulation of facts by statistics.

There is interesting to say about murder in LA is getting low in over years since LA has too numerous illegal immigrants as well.
LA murder rate hits 40-year low | 89.3 KPCC

It was 1,200 in 1992 but dropped to just 314 in 2009.

I don't know if any murders in LA is contributed to illegal immigrants but just partly since I believe that many latino gangs in LA are illegal immigrants.

**Foxrac** · 04-25-2010, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kokonut

You have to consider also people killed in DUI related auto accidents where a good portion of the percentages are caused by illegal aliens.

Crime victims of illegal aliens
Victims of Illegal Aliens Memorial, Memorial, illegal alien, victim, murdered, killed, David March, Daniel Golden, Ruben Morfin, Scott Gardner, Kris Eggle, Marc Atkinson, OJJPAC, ohio jobs and justice, Steve Salvi, Salvi, ojjpac.org, shaw, killed by

And then you have problems with sanctuary cities as well.

YouTube - More Americans Killed By Illegal Aliens Than In Iraq

Yet there were 2397 deaths to American troops in Iraq between 3/21/03 and 4/30/06. In other words, three times less the killing rate than those Americans murdered in the United States by illegal aliens. I guess you better grab your guns then, this is worse than Iraq.

Plus they cost us Americans more than just taxes.
Illegal Aliens Cost Americans More than TaxesPublications Family Security Matters

Yes, we're a nation of immigrants but we're also a nation of laws. Why the political correctness to defend illegal aliens?

Some illegal immigrants are victim of crime that commit by US citizens too like in 4 years ago, American citizen, the black man murdered 4 hispanic men in the apartment in northeast Birmingham and they seems more like illegal immigrants or both.

CJB · 04-25-2010, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Foxrac

Not all illegal immigrants are commit crime, only some of them since they are looking for better job and not easier to get green card either so that caused them to crossing illegally so Mexico need improve with their economy and have more job openings.

The crime argument is a weak one. Some legal citizens commit crimes too. Some is not all, though.

People need to stop trying to find "reasons" to hate "illegal immigrants" (re: Mexicans) and just admit that racism is fueling at least part of the anger around the immigrant issue.

kokonut · 04-25-2010, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Foxrac

Some illegal immigrants are victim of crime that commit by US citizens too like in 4 years ago, American citizen, the black man murdered 4 hispanic men in the apartment in northeast Birmingham and they seems more like illegal immigrants or both.

A red herring. This is about how illegal aliens take up our resources, break laws, murder, rob and harass American citizens, introduce more crime, bring drugs in, increase our taxes, take away jobs from those who are here legally or are citizens and so on.

CJB · 04-25-2010, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kokonut

A red herring. This is about how illegal aliens take up our resources, break laws, murder, rob and harass American citizens, introduce more crime, bring drugs in, increase our taxes, take away jobs from those who are here legally or are citizens and so on.

Yeah, and guess what? Legal citizens do all of the above. If you want to get illegal citizens to pay for the resources they take up, make them legal and have them pay taxes.

Rampratt · 04-25-2010, 01:06 PM

I agree with you Jiro ! This came to my mind when I heard this TV! There are a lot of cops that love to abuse their power!

% is quite small and you are going to have good and bad anyway. If you want to see abuse of power look at our government!

The key word is "illegal" and as far as "profiling" goes, it's an unfortunate side affect. Face it, if your going fishing, you usually look for water and if you are looking for a certain kind of fish you look where there is most likely to be that kind of fish. Again, if your legal you have nothing to fear. Yes I'm sure there will be some abuse and some very inconvenient situations but over all we have to do something. As it is we are unable to take proper care of the legal residents, much caused by the illegal ones. Most people in this country don't know what harassment is. I was on a train from Praha to Berlin a few years ago and one Young lady on that train had to show identification about 5 or 6 times just between those two cities some Checz and some German. The rest of us only twice that I can remember. You get used to carrying passport around your neck.

kokonut · 04-25-2010, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CJB

The crime argument is a weak one. Some legal citizens commit crimes too. Some is not all, though.

People need to stop trying to find reasons to hate "illegal immigrants" (re: Mexicans) and just admit that racism is fueling a lot of anger around the immigrant issue.

You are saying "Mexicans" but I am saying "illegal aliens" which is anybody though their is a preponderance of illegal Hispanics than other ethnic groups. Not about racism but about following the law. I don't mind if they come here legally whether to become a citizen or work here using work visas. The anger is about the federal govt lack of committment to help control the illegal immigration problem. They've been notorious in dragging their feet and use political correctness for whatever reason. And don't give states the tools they need to combat this problem. So, that's what Arizona is doing right now. Yet, we have people who'll defend illegal aliens even if it means more murders, crime, higher taxes, less resources, the erosion of liberty of citizens and so on.

kokonut · 04-25-2010, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CJB

Yeah, and guess what? Legal citizens do all of the above. If you want to get illegal citizens to pay for the resources they take up, make them legal and have them pay taxes.

Again, another red herring. This is about illegal aliens. And no they're not "illegal citizens" they are illegal aliens or illegal immigrants. They have no constitutional right in being here. And certainly not make them legal if we have a serious problem at the border that is too porous. Control the border first and then work on other solutions next.

kokonut · 04-25-2010, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rampratt

I agree with you Jiro ! This came to my mind when I heard this TV! There are a lot of cops that love to abuse their power!

% is quite small and you are going to have good and bad anyway. If you want to see abuse of power look at our government!

The key word is "illegal" and as far as "profiling" goes, it's an unfortunate side affect. Face it, if your going fishing, you usually look for water and if you are looking for a certain kind of fish you look where there is most likely to be that kind of fish. Again, if your legal you have nothing to fear. Yes I'm sure there will be some abuse and some very inconvenient situations but over all we have to do something. As it is we are unable to take proper care of the legal residents, much caused by the illegal ones. Most people in this country don't know what harassment is. I was on a train from Praha to Berlin a few years ago and one Young lady on that train had to show identification about 5 or 6 times just between those two cities some Checz and some German. The rest of us only twice that I can remember. You get used to carrying passport around your neck.

Imagine if they weren't aggressive in checking for identification. We carry our driver license all the time, not a big deal in carrying passport all the time while traveling in another country.

**Foxrac** · 04-25-2010, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CJB

Yeah, and guess what? Legal citizens do all of the above. If you want to get illegal citizens to pay for the resources they take up, make them legal and have them pay taxes.

Yup, second here.

I lived in LA for many years before moved to midwest US in 2006 then southeast US in eventually.

CJB · 04-25-2010, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kokonut

Again, another red herring. This is about illegal aliens. And no they're not "illegal citizens" they are illegal aliens or illegal immigrants. They have no constitutional right in being here. And certainly not make them legal if we have a serious problem at the border that is too porous. Control the border first and then work on other solutions next.

I meant to say "illegal aliens." Thanks for catching my error.

Quoting crime rates to begin with is a red herring. How is that relevant to the discussion of their status? Legal citizens commit crimes too. It's just another "reason" people come up with to justify hating illegal aliens above and beyond the "threat" they cause.

souggy · 04-25-2010, 02:52 PM

Wirelessly posted

Remember, it was Bush that closed the borders. That decision hits B.C.'s economy HARD.

But we will have to adjust. :/

**Beowulf** · 04-25-2010, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by souggy

Wirelessly posted

Remember, it was Bush that closed the borders. That decision hits B.C.'s economy HARD.

But we will have to adjust. :/

I agree.
It is funny how some folk insist that climate change is entirely natural and inexorable, while they vehemently resist this natural course in human events.

**Reba** · 04-25-2010, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beowulf

I agree.
It is funny how some folk insist that climate change is entirely natural and inexorable, while they vehemently resist this natural course in human events.

One more element: Divine intervention.

**Beowulf** · 04-25-2010, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

One more element: Divine intervention.

If that's your belief, more power to you, Reba.

Steinhauer · 04-25-2010, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whatdidyousay!

Obama tells feds to check Arizona immigration bill - Washington Times

Here the link about Obama telling feds to check out the bill !

Quote:

The president, speaking at a ceremony to naturalize two dozen immigrant U.S. troops, said the fact that Arizona is acting on its own is evidence that Congress need to pass a broad bill legalizing illegal immigrants at the national level.

Obama lied to you. He passed healthcare reform BEFORE granting amnesty to illegals in order to make the "budget" work.

When he passes amnesty for illegals YOU wil be required to pay for criminal's healthcare coverage. If YOU do not, you will be fined and/or imprisoned.

btw, there is absolutely no "civil right" to enter the US illegally.

**Jiro** · 04-25-2010, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steinhauer

Obama lied to you. He passed healthcare reform BEFORE granting amnesty to illegals in order to make the "budget" work.

When he passes amnesty for illegals YOU wil be required to pay for criminal's healthcare coverage. If YOU do not, you will be fined and/or imprisoned.

btw, there is absolutely no "civil right" to enter the US illegally.

did he pass the amnesty for illegals?

btw - we're already paying for healthcare coverage for American criminals including politicians.

Steinhauer · 04-25-2010, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

did he pass the amnesty for illegals?

btw - we're already paying for healthcare coverage for American criminals including politicians.

Yes, I agree, the criminal element also includes politicians.

Obama passed healthcare reform and submitted his "budget" FIRST, because if he passed amnesty for illegals first, the budget would not have worked.

**Jiro** · 04-25-2010, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steinhauer

Yes, I agree, the criminal element also includes politicians.

Obama passed healthcare reform and submitted his "budget" FIRST, because if he passed amnesty for illegals first, the budget would not have worked.

so... he never granted amnesty to illegals, right?

Berry · 04-25-2010, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kokonut

A red herring. This is about how illegal aliens take up our resources, break laws, murder, rob and harass American citizens, introduce more crime, bring drugs in, increase our taxes, take away jobs from those who are here legally or are citizens and so on.

I've seen American citizens do all that to each other; never had a run in with anyone foreign born, legal or not.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kokonut

You are saying "Mexicans" but I am saying "illegal aliens" which is anybody though their is a preponderance of illegal Hispanics than other ethnic groups. Not about racism but about following the law. I don't mind if they come here legally whether to become a citizen or work here using work visas. The anger is about the federal govt lack of committment to help control the illegal immigration problem. They've been notorious in dragging their feet and use political correctness for whatever reason. And don't give states the tools they need to combat this problem. So, that's what Arizona is doing right now. Yet, we have people who'll defend illegal aliens even if it means more murders, crime, higher taxes, less resources, the erosion of liberty of citizens and so on.

You don't "say" Mexicans because that would make it obvious that you don't mean WASP looking people. It would also be obvious no one is proposing building this huge Berlin wall across the Canadian border. The people who would be stopped and harassed the most by the authorities would be "South of the Border" looking people.

And perhaps they are dragging their feet because they, like many of us here, do not see this huge horrible problem you keep talking about. We did have a serious problem for a time when Castro sent all of Cuba's criminal element to the U.S. along with honest refugees. U.S. law enforcement seems to have met the challenge and no one even talks about it any more.

**deafskeptic** · 04-25-2010, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

not happy about this. there are better ways to combat against illegal immigration rather than giving more authority and potentially abusive power to police officers.

I have to say you could be right about this one.

**deafskeptic** · 04-25-2010, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Berry

I've seen American citizens do all that to each other; never had a run in with anyone foreign born, legal or not.

You don't "say" Mexicans because that would make it obvious that you don't mean WASP looking people. It would also be obvious no one is proposing building this huge Berlin wall across the Canadian border. The people who would be stopped and harassed the most by the authorities would be "South of the Border" looking people.

And perhaps they are dragging their feet because they, like many of us here, do not see this huge horrible problem you keep talking about. We did have a serious problem for a time when Castro sent all of Cuba's criminal element to the U.S. along with honest refugees. U.S. law enforcement seems to have met the challenge and no one even talks about it any more.

**shel90** · 04-25-2010, 08:15 PM

Apparently my ex hubby took my daughter to a protest against this today. I am not too happy about this.

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articl...otest0425.html

Steinhauer · 04-25-2010, 08:49 PM

Let me get this straight .... Obama considers it a "civil right" to enter the US illegally?

**Jiro** · 04-25-2010, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steinhauer

Let me get this straight .... Obama considers it a "civil right" to enter the US illegally?

you prefer that the illegals don't get civil rights?

CJB · 04-25-2010, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Berry

I've seen American citizens do all that to each other; never had a run in with anyone foreign born, legal or not.

You don't "say" Mexicans because that would make it obvious that you don't mean WASP looking people. It would also be obvious no one is proposing building this huge Berlin wall across the Canadian border. The people who would be stopped and harassed the most by the authorities would be "South of the Border" looking people.

And perhaps they are dragging their feet because they, like many of us here, do not see this huge horrible problem you keep talking about. We did have a serious problem for a time when Castro sent all of Cuba's criminal element to the U.S. along with honest refugees. U.S. law enforcement seems to have met the challenge and no one even talks about it any more.

Excellent post.

04-25-2010, 02:52 PM	#196 (permalink)
souggy Registered User Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Pacific Northwest Posts: 9,541	Wirelessly posted Remember, it was Bush that closed the borders. That decision hits B.C.'s economy HARD. But we will have to adjust. :/ __________________ "It is my task to convince you not to turn away because you don’t understand it." - Richard Freynman

04-25-2010, 08:15 PM	#207 (permalink)
shel90 Audist are not welcome Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: A place where crabs are popular Posts: 40,500 Blog Entries: 3	Apparently my ex hubby took my daughter to a protest against this today. I am not too happy about this. http://www.azcentral.com/news/articl...otest0425.html __________________ "Wine improves with age. The older I get, the better I like it." --- Anonymous

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04-25-2010, 11:19 AM	#181 (permalink)
whatdidyousay! Registered User Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 8,858	Obama tells feds to check Arizona immigration bill - Washington Times Here the link about Obama telling feds to check out the bill !

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04-25-2010, 01:06 PM	#190 (permalink)
Rampratt Registered User Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Casa Grande Arizona Posts: 149	I agree with you Jiro ! This came to my mind when I heard this TV! There are a lot of cops that love to abuse their power! % is quite small and you are going to have good and bad anyway. If you want to see abuse of power look at our government! The key word is "illegal" and as far as "profiling" goes, it's an unfortunate side affect. Face it, if your going fishing, you usually look for water and if you are looking for a certain kind of fish you look where there is most likely to be that kind of fish. Again, if your legal you have nothing to fear. Yes I'm sure there will be some abuse and some very inconvenient situations but over all we have to do something. As it is we are unable to take proper care of the legal residents, much caused by the illegal ones. Most people in this country don't know what harassment is. I was on a train from Praha to Berlin a few years ago and one Young lady on that train had to show identification about 5 or 6 times just between those two cities some Checz and some German. The rest of us only twice that I can remember. You get used to carrying passport around your neck.

04-25-2010, 08:49 PM	#208 (permalink)
Steinhauer Registered User Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 8,191 Blog Entries: 1	Let me get this straight .... Obama considers it a "civil right" to enter the US illegally?