Arizona governor signs immigration bill - Page 3

**Jiro** · 04-23-2010, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kokonut

Arizona is doing the job the feds refuse to do by taking the law and our borders seriously to protect the health, safety, and welfare of our citizens first. I've no objection to that.

so do you want the Feds to police around the local street and do the local police's job?

kokonut · 04-23-2010, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by netrox

What about 30%?

What about them?

kokonut · 04-23-2010, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Berry

I'm not certain what kind of a problem it is. Political, emotional, economic, etc.

I don't think how our country solves its problems should be influenced by how other countries handle their problems. It would be wise to examine the merits of other countries methods of solving problems, but just because they do or do not do something is not a valid reason for us to emulate them.

As Jiro says, "There are other ways."

And Arizona is doing something pro-active. If there are "other ways" we're certainly not hearing them nor is Congress interested in them, or so it seems.

**Jiro** · 04-23-2010, 10:18 PM

and why the federal immigration reform never passed? because of GOP's lackluster's effort to proceed with it.

What does Arizona's immigration law do? - CNN.com

Quote:

Is federal immigration legislation coming?

Democrats tell CNN that if they don't get Republican commitments soon, they likely will push to move a bill without GOP support.

Democratic sources said the chances of passing immigration reform in that scenario this year are slim, but they want to make clear to key constituencies they are at least trying.

President Obama is still pushing for a bill, though.

Sen. Lindsey Graham of South Carolina is the only GOP senator on board, but he has told Democrats they will lose his support unless they find another Republican.

Obama recently called Sen. Scott Brown, R-Massachusetts, to try to get him on board, a Brown spokeswoman said.

On Thursday, Sen. Jeff Sessions, R-Alabama, said in a statement that during tough economic conditions, Americans are "dubious" about immigration reform.

He said the White House and Congress should not immediately take up the issue -- but instead "take targeted steps to deal with the crisis at the border, increase the usage of the E-Verify program, and enhance prosecutions of employers who knowingly hire illegal workers."

The last immigration reform efforts in Congress were in 2005 when Sen. John McCain, R-Arizona, and the late Sen. Ted Kennedy, Brown's predecessor, introduced a bipartisan bill that aimed to implement guest-worker programs and ways for more illegal immigrants to become citizens.

The McCain-Kennedy bill, however, never came up for a vote in the Senate.

Other legislative efforts have failed to gain momentum.

wassup with that?

**saywhatkid** · 04-23-2010, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

and why the federal immigration reform never passed? because of GOP's lackluster's effort to proceed with it.

What does Arizona's immigration law do? - CNN.com

wassup with that?

I missed this story on FoxesNews. It must be a lie!!!

authentic · 04-23-2010, 10:49 PM

That's a good sign.

Quote:

"Illegal is illegal," said Pearce, a driving force on the issue in Arizona. "We'll have less crime. We'll have lower taxes. We'll have safer neighborhoods. We'll have shorter lines in the emergency rooms. We'll have smaller classrooms."

I hope so.

Cowpuppy · 04-23-2010, 11:02 PM

political correctness runs amuck. they feel a sense of entitlement. don't feed it by using kid gloves. spoiled of the years.

Texan Guy · 04-23-2010, 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shel90

Seeing a lot of my old Arizonan friends on FB posting how ashamed they are to be Arizonans now...I got mixed feelings about this.

It could happens to Texas in few years or so, I'll probably have the mixed feeling about it as well since my girlfriend is a Mexican. I don't want to get pull over by a cop or border patrol to check on my girlfriend's immigrantion status.

Berry · 04-23-2010, 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kokonut

And Arizona is doing something pro-active. If there are "other ways" we're certainly not hearing them nor is Congress interested in them, or so it seems.

There are other ways, but no one seems interested in them.

Is proactive always the best answer? Don't pro - activities generate reactive responses?

One of the most serious problems about the "problem" is that no one has defined it as yet... Instead they are demanding "something be done".

I agree with the credo "When solving a problem, first do as little harm as possible."

CJB · 04-23-2010, 11:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

I'm wondering how many Caucasian people (non-American & illegal) will the police officers stop to verify for their immigration status

CJB · 04-23-2010, 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kokonut

Arizona is doing the job the feds refuse to do by taking the law and our borders seriously to protect the health, safety, and welfare of our citizens first. I've no objection to that.

Protect the health, safety, and welfare of our citizens? What are our citizens being protected from? The big scary Mexicans?

CJB · 04-23-2010, 11:33 PM

There's another thread about this. Can we merge threads?

**Foxrac** · 04-23-2010, 11:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kokonut

70% of likely Arizona voters agree with the new immigration bill that was signed into law today.
Rasmussen Poll Says 70% of Arizona Residents Support Illegal Immigration Bill | NumbersUSA - For Lower Immigration Levels

I bet this poll is just polled from 80% citizen-born whites, nothing is new because they just don't understand about immigrant reform.

**Foxrac** · 04-23-2010, 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kokonut

Arizona is doing the job the feds refuse to do by taking the law and our borders seriously to protect the health, safety, and welfare of our citizens first. I've no objection to that.

It is probably federal fault but lacks of action from congress on immigrant bill has caused states to pass their own to deal with illegal immigrants.

AZ immigrant bill won't be survive for long time because of court.

***Calvin*** · 04-24-2010, 01:09 AM

Mod note:

Threads has been merged.

**Reba** · 04-24-2010, 01:28 AM

So what's the solution?

Quote:

The killing of Arizona rancher Robert Krentz allegedly by an illegal immigrant has some critics pointing out that hundreds of miles of U.S.-Mexico border fencing isn't even high enough to stop a person on foot.

Of the 646 miles of barriers currently constructed along the 2,000-mile southern border of the United States, 300 miles are vehicle barriers, according to the Department of Homeland Security. That means they're meant to keep out cars and trucks, but aren't high enough to keep out people crossing the border illegally on foot.

Fencing in place just south of the Krentz family ranch in southeastern Arizona is exactly that kind of vehicle barrier, plus there's a sizable gap in the fence nearby.

Residents and officials say the security barrier is simply ineffective, and that the killing last month is shining a light on the problem.

Rancher Wendy Glenn, Krentz's longtime friend and neighbor who heard the man's last radio transmission to his brother, said she has roughly 4 miles of border fence along Malpai Ranch. The "wildlife-friendly" barrier -- one that allows large animals and determined people to pass through freely -- ranges from large Normandy-style "X" crosses to standard posts and rails, topping off at no more than six feet high, she said.

"It doesn't keep any people out," Glenn told FoxNews.com on Monday. "We don't want any more fence here. We want more people on the border. No matter what they put in, they're going to tunnel under, cut through, or use ladders. We don't need that."

Glenn characterized the border fence as a "big waste of money" and called for increased federal presence along the remote areas, as well increased communication among law enforcement agencies.

"We need more people on the border," she said. "And we need more horse patrols -- they are awesome."

Jenny Burke, a spokeswoman for U.S. Customs and Border Protection, said 646 of approximately 670 miles of pedestrian and vehicle border fencing has been constructed as of March 26. Just six miles of fencing infrastructure remains to be completed along the 2,000-mile U.S.-Mexico border, Burke said.

The roughly 1,350 miles that will not be protected by a border fence of any kind will be patrolled by border agents, other infrastructure or technology, Burke said, or a combination of all three.

Pedestrian fencing used along the border is determined by the geography and have several variations, including steel picket-style fences set in concrete, blockades similar to those found around federal buildings and concrete walls with steel mesh. Vehicle fences, meanwhile, are about 6 feet tall and are typically large Normandy-style crosses.

"And they're all welded together," she said. "So they're impossible to move."

Burke said areas selected for physical fences are locations where illegal immigrants could easily blend in with local surroundings if those individuals successfully crossed the border.

During a tour of the border along Fort Hancock, Texas, last week, Border Patrol Agent Joe Romero said security in the area was improving despite rising fears in the community that drug cartel-related violence in El Porvenir, Mexico, could spill over into the U.S. town at any moment. Still, threats remain, he said.

"At no point am I going to indicate that we have full control of the border, or that we're 100 percent secure on the border," Romero told FoxNews.com. "It's still a struggle, there's still some work to be done. But we've made huge strides."

Romero, one of about 2,600 U.S. Border Patrol agents scouring the 125,000-square mile El Paso sector, extending from Fort Hancock to the New Mexico-Arizona state line, said apprehensions in the area have fallen approximately tenfold in the last four years, from roughly 122,000 in fiscal year 2006 to about 15,000 last year.

The border fence in Fort Hancock roughly 50 miles southeast from Ciudad Juarez, the epicenter of Mexico's ongoing drug war, stands about 20 feet tall in some areas and is entirely absent in others. And along some stretches of land between Fort Hancock and Tornillo, Texas, the nearest town, all that separates the U.S. and Mexico is the ankle-deep Rio Grande River.

Despite its perception as a cure-all blockade, Romero said the border fence is meant to deter large groups of illegal immigrants from entering the country illegally. It's also meant to slow down any would-be border-crossers, giving crucial seconds to roving border patrols in trucks, all-terrain vehicles and on horseback.

Former Colorado Republican Rep. Tom Tancredo, whose touchstone issue is illegal immigration, told FoxNews.com the federal government needs to ideally have a "layered" fence along with National Guard patrol along the entire southern border. A layered fence is a barrier that includes a fence, a road and another fence.

But he said the hundreds of miles of fencing along the border now are not effective.

"That's what's so maddening," Tancredo said.

"It doesn't stop people," said Charles Heatherly, executive director of Tancredo’s Rocky Mountain Foundation. "It's a lie."

Heatherly said in an e-mail to FoxNews.com that the kind of fence by Krentz's home is incapable of stopping "drug smugglers like the one who killed Rob Krentz."

It's unclear who killed Krentz, but local authorities said they suspected an illegal immigrant since footprints near the scene of the crime led back to the Mexican border.

FOXNews.com - Border Fence Under Renewed Fire After Rancher Killing

Quote:

GOP Reps Offer Bill to Ban Interior Dept. From Hindering Border Agents

By Joshua Rhett Miller

The unknown gunman who murdered an Arizona rancher three weeks ago entered and exited the U.S. illegally in an area where border agents are widely prohibited from using motorized vehicles, constructing roads and installing surveillance structures, federal agents have confirmed.

Jan. 8, 2010: A locked gate at the San Bernardino National Wildlife Refuge, where U.S. Customs and Border Protection agents usually wait for U.S. Forest Service officials to escort them onto federal lands even though they have keys for life-threatening situations, according to the House of Representatives' Natural Resources Committee Republicans.

The unknown gunman who murdered an Arizona rancher three weeks ago entered and exited the U.S. illegally in an area where border agents are widely prohibited from using motorized vehicles, constructing roads and installing surveillance structures, federal agents have confirmed.

The development prompted four Republican congressmen to introduce legislation on Wednesday that will ban the Interior Department from using environmental regulations to hinder agents along the border, including at the San Bernardino National Wildlife Refuge, a 2,300-acre parcel near where rancher Robert Krentz was killed on March 27.

U.S. Reps. Doc Hastings of Washington, Peter King of New York, Rob Bishop of Utah and Lamar Smith of Texas say their bill, if passed, will address environmental degradation of federal lands and help close national security gaps along the border, which they say has become an uncontrolled highway.

"Effectively securing our borders against illegal entry is a matter of homeland security," King said in a statement prior to the scheduled 1 p.m. press conference at the U.S. Capitol Visitors Center in Washington. "Border Patrol agents spend every day on the front line, securing our homeland from terrorists. Denying or limiting the Border Patrol access to public lands and allowing the flow of illegals, including potential terrorists, doesn't protect anything."

The lawmakers say internal documents show that the Interior Department and the U.S. Forest Service have consistently and actively prevented Border Patrol agents from securing U.S. borders by requiring Department of Homeland Security officials to complete lengthy and expensive environmental analyses, and even blocking Border Patrol agents from entering some areas.

"As a result, Border Patrol agents are being forced to wade through bureaucratic red tape just so they can do the job Congress has mandated: gain operational control over the U.S. border," according to a fact sheet released by the House of Representatives' Natural Resources Committee Republicans.

Kendra Barkoff, a spokeswoman for the Interior Department told FoxNews.com that Secretary Ken Salazar visited the area last month to meet with land managers and federal, state, and local law enforcement, including U.S. Customs and Border Protection and Homeland Security officials.

She said Salazar places a high priority on working with DHS and other agencies to "meet the twin goals of protecting our national security and our natural resources."

But some federal lands are specifically targeted by criminals, drug traffickers and human smugglers for easy access into the United States from Mexico or Canada, the congressmen say.

The Interior Department, the primary land management agency for 40 percent of the Mexican border and 10 percent of the Canadian border, warned of potential problems in a fiscal year 2002-2003 Threat Assessment for Public Lands.

"Virtually all of the lands managed by Department Of The Interior (DOI) along the Arizona/Mexico border are sparsely populated with easy access into the United States from Mexico," the report reads. "Terrorist [sic] wishing to smuggle nuclear -- biological -- or chemical (NBC) weapons into the United States from Mexico could use well-established smuggling routes over DOI managed lands."

Border Patrol agents, park rangers and private citizens have been killed in these federal lands, most recently on March 27, when Krentz was murdered by a person who entered and exited the U.S. illegally via the San Bernardino Wildlife Refuge -- a fact confirmed to the House of Representatives' Natural Resources Committee Republicans by officials from both Customs and Border Protection and the Fish and Wildlife Service.

In 2007, Krentz's wife, Sue, wrote a letter to Congress opposing additional wilderness areas in Arizona she claimed would worsen criminal activity along the border.

"We have experienced $6.2 million dollars of damages to our ranch and water line because of illegal foot traffic," the letter read. "These areas along the border have long been targeted because of the high amount of private property with[in] the boundaries."

Krentz wrote that ranchers in the area, herself included, were fearful for their lives.

"It is not right that illegal immigrants and drug smugglers should take precedence over honest, hard-working Americans whose recreation and livelihood is damaged," the letter continued. "It is the job of the federal government to protect the defined United States borders from invasion."

In addition to blocking efforts to secure the border, the Republican lawmakers say Interior officials are charging Homeland Security millions of dollars for conducting Border Patrol operations on its land.

According to the fact sheet supplied by the House of Representatives' Natural Resources Committee Republicans, DHS has paid DOI more than $9 million since 2007 to mitigate the "environmental damage" of protecting the border. DHS officials agreed to pay an additional $50 million for mitigation funds to DOI, according to a memorandum of agreement in 2009, but DOI officials have yet to disclose how exactly those funds will be used.

"This extortion is taking valuable money away from Border Patrol that is needed to safeguard our nation," the fact sheet reads.

While not addressing the money exchanged between DOI to DHS, Barkoff said significant progress has been made through a joint effort.

"Collaborative work between DOI staff and DHS has allowed for border security infrastructure to be strategically located, including on federal lands, to meet DHS security requirement and goals, while substantially reducing government spending and significantly reducing adverse effects to natural and cultural resources."

DHS spokesman Matt Chandler added that "as challenges arise, we will continue to develop workable solutions on special status lands."

"When our border security activities require close collaboration with DOI and USFS, we view it as an opportunity to support each other's mission by preserving our natural resources while strengthening the security of our borders," he said in a statement.

Rancher Wendy Glenn, Krentz's longtime friend and neighbor who heard the man's last radio transmission to his brother, said she and other residents in the area have been calling for increased border security for years.

Glenn, who has roughly four miles of border fence along Malpai Ranch, said the ineffective and "wildlife-friendly" barrier ranges from large Normandy-style "X" crosses to standard posts and rails, topping off at no more than six feet high.

"It doesn't keep any people out," Glenn told FoxNews.com earlier this month. "We don't want any more fence here. We want more people on the border. No matter what they put in, they're going to tunnel under, cut through, or use ladders. We don't need that … We need more people on the border."

Glenn characterized the border fence as a "big waste of money" and called for increased federal presence along the remote areas, as well increased communication among law enforcement agencies.

FOXNews.com - GOP Reps Offer Bill to Ban Interior Dept. From Hindering Border Agents

souggy · 04-24-2010, 01:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CJB

Protect the health, safety, and welfare of our citizens? What are our citizens being protected from? The big scary Mexicans?

Swine flu.

souggy · 04-24-2010, 01:50 AM

In response to the murder:

Theoretically... a war deserter from America could enter the Canadian border illegally and murder a Canadian en route.... yet we never bothered tightening up our security protocol.

kokonut · 04-24-2010, 02:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by souggy

In response to the murder:

Theoretically... a war deserter from America could enter the Canadian border illegally and murder a Canadian en route.... yet we never bothered tightening up our security protocol.

You don't have 10,000 illegal aliens entering Canada each day, everyday, taking up your resources, adding to the crimes, drug trafficking, additional taxes, hospital costs and so on.

souggy · 04-24-2010, 02:00 AM

So far...

I see nothing about the bill that will keep illegals OUT of America. All does is give the police some teeth to harass an individual whether or not he's legit citizen or not. So... how does this exactly help deter illegals from entering America? All it does is push people further and further underground.

Won't stop sex trafficking. Won't stop labour trafficking. Won't stop drug trafficking. Illegal exotic pet trafficking. As long there's demand for all of the above, people won't stop from trying to cross into another country.

And believe me... with 300 million legal citizens, there's a LOT of demands for the above; it might be in the minority, but there's enough people demanding services from illegals for them to keep crossing-- and those demands will be met, no matter how far underground it goes.

souggy · 04-24-2010, 02:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kokonut

You don't have 10,000 illegal aliens entering Canada each day, everyday, taking up your resources, adding to the crimes, drug trafficking, additional taxes, hospital costs and so on.

So... where all the illegal Asians coming from then?

**Jiro** · 04-24-2010, 02:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kokonut

You don't have 10,000 illegal aliens entering Canada each day, everyday,

doing the jobs that Americans don't want to do

Quote:

Originally Posted by kokonut

taking up your resources,

such as?

Quote:

Originally Posted by kokonut

adding to the crimes, drug trafficking,

oh the one we fueled it by doing businesses with them? In case you didn't know - probably more than half of politicians are funding it by buying drugs for their drug addictions

Quote:

Originally Posted by kokonut

additional taxes,

nothing comparable to frauds committed by Americans

Quote:

Originally Posted by kokonut

hospital costs and so on.

because of this new health care reform - it will not apply to illegals

**Reba** · 04-24-2010, 02:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by souggy

In response to the murder:

Theoretically... a war deserter from America could enter the Canadian border illegally and murder a Canadian en route.... yet we never bothered tightening up our security protocol.

It wasn't an isolated incident:

Quote:

The body of Rancher Rob Krentz and his dog were found shot to death on his ranch. Krentz, who always was good-natured and willing to help people, had called in that he had found an illegal alien at one of his watering holes and was assisting him. That was the last that was heard from him before his body was discovered.

Rob Krentz was a lifelong rancher in Southeastern Arizona, 12 miles north of the U.S./Mexico border and 25 miles northeast of the city of Douglas. He was the father of three children. The ranch has been in his family for three generations, more than 100 years – since 1907, and sits on about 35,000 acres with 1,000 head of cattle. Running a ranch is hard work and with the influx of illegal aliens increasing, Rob was at ground zero of the stampede that is destroying the fragile desert landscape.

The Krentz family has received numerous threats in the past by illegal aliens trespassing on their property. In 2002, the family was physically threatened when one of them stumbled upon a group of 39 illegal aliens. They were told to get off the land and they made threats. The Border Patrol did catch the illegal aliens after they were called, but we all know that illegal aliens, if deported, come right back across.

In 1999, Krentz and his wife Susan did an interview with PBS when they came around asking about the issue of illegal immigration and its impacts on the local ranchers.

“We’ve been broken into,” Susan Krentz told PBS.

“One time,” Rob said “You know, we’ve personally been broke in once. And they took about $700 worth of stuff. And you know, if they come in and ask for water, I’ll still give them water. I – you know, that’s just my nature.”

In 2003, Congressman Tom Tancredo mentioned the challenges of the border ranchers, and in particular highlighted the the Krentz family’s plight.

“In the month of November, 2002, in the Tucson Sector of the U.S. Border Patrol … where the Krentz ranch is located, the Border Patrol apprehended 23,000 border crossers,” Tancredo wrote. “many people would suggest that the [apprehension] ratio is just about maybe one in five, and that is a very conservative estimate. … I think it is closer to one in ten”.

That means in that sector alone for one month, 8 years ago, the most conservative estimate is that 115,000 illegal aliens crossed the border in that one chunk of land in the Tucson sector. All of the illegals are unknown.

Tancredo notes that the Krentz’s did mention to him that they called the Border Patrol. In one instance illegal aliens had butchered one of his calves.

In February [2002] … a calf was butchered by illegal alien trespassers. Two men responsible were caught. They were tried. They were found guilty. They served a total of 51 days in jail. They were also ordered to pay $200 in restitution to the Krentz ranch. The Krentz ranch has not seen a cent of that money; and, of course, our best guess is they will not because these people have been released. They either came back into the population up here in the U.S.A. or returned to Mexico.

Tancredo goes into the cases of deliberate sabotage of the Krentz ranch’s water supply and the other impacts on the Krentz’s by illegal aliens. You can read more, where Tancredo dubs the Krentzs American Homeland Heroes

6 years after the PBS interview, in 2005, Krentz did an interview with KOLD as the number of illegal aliens exploded.

“We’re being over-run, and it’s costing us lots and lots of money,” Krentz said.

“We figured it up over the last five years and it’s cost us over $8 million,” Krentz said. “Cattle don’t like people walking through, so they move. So, cattle weight loss, destruction of fences, breaking our pipelines, they break them in two and (the pipes) run for two or three days before we find it.”

Krentz went on to say that when he was a boy he actually knew the few illegal aliens that came through looking for work, he said it’s nothing like that now as hundreds of unknown illegals stream across his land.

Rob Krentz is just one of the many people who live and work along our southern border. A tough, hard working man who was trying to make a living and doing what he loved. Those who support illegal aliens will talk about “human rights”, but where were the “human rights” when it came to Rob Krentz? Where was the government to protect our border and prevent this from happening, though they’ve been told time and time again? They didn’t protect his property rights, nor his civil rights.

This country failed Robert Krentz, his family and all who work for him. As they have failed countless families all across this country. The number of deaths is estimated to be from 15-25 deaths caused by illegal aliens each day in this country.

It is not known yet whether Krentz was specifically targeted or whether it was just one of the hundreds of thousands of illegal aliens who come across our border every year who have actual criminal records, but in the end does it matter? A hard working man was killed on his own land. And all for just trying to help out someone in need.

And that is simply outrageous.

Rest in peace Robert Krentz, the country will surely miss a great and kind man like you.

Border Rancher Rob Krentz And Dog Found Shot To Death After Aiding Illegal Alien Maricopa County Republican Committee

kokonut · 04-24-2010, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by souggy

So far...

I see nothing about the bill that will keep illegals OUT of America. All does is give the police some teeth to harass an individual whether or not he's legit citizen or not. So... how does this exactly help deter illegals from entering America? All it does is push people further and further underground.

Won't stop sex trafficking. Won't stop labour trafficking. Won't stop drug trafficking. Illegal exotic pet trafficking. As long there's demand for all of the above, people won't stop from trying to cross into another country.

And believe me... with 300 million legal citizens, there's a LOT of demands for the above; it might be in the minority, but there's enough people demanding services from illegals for them to keep crossing-- and those demands will be met, no matter how far underground it goes.

Which is why we have work visas, green cards, etc. Either we let this get out of control or have a way to counter illegal entries and the illegal aliens in this country. Each state has that right to protect their citizens.

kokonut · 04-24-2010, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by souggy

So... where all the illegal Asians coming from then?

They come in from all over via smuggling routes, on cargo ships, trucks and so on. If you read one of my links there a story about how asians entered Mexico at the southern end. There are even a few stories of how smuggled asians were found in ship cargo holds in South Carolina and Georgia.

I prefer not to see this get out of control on the illegal alien entries.

kokonut · 04-24-2010, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

It wasn't an isolated incident:

Border Rancher Rob Krentz And Dog Found Shot To Death After Aiding Illegal Alien Maricopa County Republican Committee

That's 9,000 citizens murdered each year by illegal aliens. That's more deaths than our troops overseas. It's a travesty that people find this acceptable and let illegal aliens have more rights than American citizens. They are here illegally and have broken the law.

kokonut · 04-24-2010, 01:09 PM

And yet it’s constitutional to penalize someone for not showing proof of health insurance but not request proof of citizenship? We are living in a backward world.

Berry · 04-24-2010, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kokonut

That's 9,000 citizens murdered each year by illegal aliens. That's more deaths than our troops overseas. It's a travesty that people find this acceptable and let illegal aliens have more rights than American citizens. They are here illegally and have broken the law.

NOW you are bringing up a problem that is and can be dealt with far more easily.

Why should any alien, legal or illegal, have the same rights as a native born American unless they have become citizens?

kokonut · 04-24-2010, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Berry

NOW you are bringing up a problem that is and can be dealt with far more easily.

Why should any alien, legal or illegal, have the same rights as a native born American unless they have become citizens?

They do not have the right to be here illegally. There are ways of entering the U.S. by legal means. Not following the laws would require deportation.

souggy · 04-24-2010, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

It wasn't an isolated incident:

Border Rancher Rob Krentz And Dog Found Shot To Death After Aiding Illegal Alien Maricopa County Republican Committee

Quote:

Originally Posted by kokonut

Which is why we have work visas, green cards, etc. Either we let this get out of control or have a way to counter illegal entries and the illegal aliens in this country. Each state has that right to protect their citizens.

How many of those deaths are related to the black market? Sex trafficking? Drug trafficking? Labour trafficking? Exotic pet trafficking? Arms trafficking? The statistics mention how many murders are committed by illegals, but nothing about the nature of those murders.

Even if you can get the illegal-related crimes down to zero. I wager the death-rate will still just be as high since someone else will fill in the void left behind.

Again, the bill does nothing about resolving the reasons why those illegals are here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kokonut

They come in from all over via smuggling routes, on cargo ships, trucks and so on. If you read one of my links there a story about how asians entered Mexico at the southern end. There are even a few stories of how smuggled asians were found in ship cargo holds in South Carolina and Georgia.

I prefer not to see this get out of control on the illegal alien entries.

So Canada and United States have something in common. However we prefer to crack down on the reasons why those people are here, oppose to questioning people where they're from.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kokonut

That's 9,000 citizens murdered each year by illegal aliens. That's more deaths than our troops overseas. It's a travesty that people find this acceptable and let illegal aliens have more rights than American citizens. They are here illegally and have broken the law.

And?

What have this bill done to keep them OUT of the country? Nothing. Sure, there will be more deportations, but they will come back right over again and again... and again... and again... and again.

The key isn't trying to deport the people who are already here. The key is to keep them out in the first place, so there is no reason for them to cross.

04-24-2010, 01:50 AM	#78 (permalink)
souggy Registered User Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Pacific Northwest Posts: 9,541	In response to the murder: Theoretically... a war deserter from America could enter the Canadian border illegally and murder a Canadian en route.... yet we never bothered tightening up our security protocol. __________________ "It is my task to convince you not to turn away because you don’t understand it." - Richard Freynman

04-24-2010, 02:00 AM	#80 (permalink)
souggy Registered User Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Pacific Northwest Posts: 9,541	So far... I see nothing about the bill that will keep illegals OUT of America. All does is give the police some teeth to harass an individual whether or not he's legit citizen or not. So... how does this exactly help deter illegals from entering America? All it does is push people further and further underground. Won't stop sex trafficking. Won't stop labour trafficking. Won't stop drug trafficking. Illegal exotic pet trafficking. As long there's demand for all of the above, people won't stop from trying to cross into another country. And believe me... with 300 million legal citizens, there's a LOT of demands for the above; it might be in the minority, but there's enough people demanding services from illegals for them to keep crossing-- and those demands will be met, no matter how far underground it goes. __________________ "It is my task to convince you not to turn away because you don’t understand it." - Richard Freynman

04-24-2010, 01:09 PM	#87 (permalink)
kokonut Registered User Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 15,348	And yet it’s constitutional to penalize someone for not showing proof of health insurance but not request proof of citizenship? We are living in a backward world. __________________ Before AD. After AD. "Restriction on free thought and free speech is the most dangerous of all subversions. It is the one un-American act that could most easily defeat us." -Thurgood Marshall, former Supreme Court Justice "... turns out they are telling the truth."

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04-23-2010, 11:02 PM	#67 (permalink)
Cowpuppy Registered User Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: On The Road Again Posts: 820	political correctness runs amuck. they feel a sense of entitlement. don't feed it by using kid gloves. spoiled of the years.

04-23-2010, 11:33 PM	#72 (permalink)
CJB Registered User Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: U.S. Posts: 2,767	There's another thread about this. Can we merge threads?

04-24-2010, 01:09 AM	#75 (permalink)
*Calvin* Moderator Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 4,929	Mod note: Threads has been merged.