Arizona governor signs immigration bill - Page 10

Berry · 04-26-2010, 01:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steinhauer

I am part Miami. What is your point?

If you live on a reservation, you don't have to pay taxes.

Again, lets steer this back on topic. We are talking about illegal immigrants.

Criminals. People who fail to follow the law. We are NOT talking about hispanics, native americans, latinos, etc. It is about those who enter the United States illegally.

It has to stop. Deport the offenders. the government has been way too soft and that is why it is an enormous problem. Time to draw the line.

The point is that if you are part Miami then you sir are the descendant of ILLEGAL immigrants, just as I and most other Americans are. Not all immigrants came through Ellis Island. Though through the tricks of genealogy I can show all my ancestors were "legal" the truth is they were not.

In fact in order to support the growth of the railroad the government supported a huge influx of undocumented aliens.

If the government had followed your line of reasoning neither you nor I would be on this forum.

I fail to believe the problem is the big bad wolf you describe.

Nor do I believe that instituting your reforms will solve any of our economic or social woes.

**Jiro** · 04-26-2010, 01:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Foxrac

I have feel that illegal immigrants would escape from AZ to other states like CA, NM, TX, etc so AZ immigrant bill fail.

It is better to let federal to get deal with illegal immigrants and I wasn't impressed about what congress's job with immigrant reform, even GOP won't back it.

Increase more ICE agents, secure the border on US-Mexico and assistance with employers to not hire illegal immigrants are best solution to do.

exactly what the federal government has been trying to pass for years including GWB.

Steinhauer · 04-26-2010, 01:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Berry

The point is that if you are part Miami then you sir are the descendant of ILLEGAL immigrants, just as I and most other Americans are. Not all immigrants came through Ellis Island. Though through the tricks of genealogy I can show all my ancestors were "legal" the truth is they were not.

In fact in order to support the growth of the railroad the government supported a huge influx of undocumented aliens.

If the government had followed your line of reasoning neither you nor I would be on this forum.

I fail to believe the problem is the big bad wolf you describe.

Nor do I believe that instituting your reforms will solve any of our economic or social woes.

Nice try .... but I NEVER said I was against legal immigration.

There is a right way for a foreigner to become a citizen, and a wrong way.

Let me ask you this question - How would you like it if people were to enter into your house without permission, eat your food, sleep in your kids room, use your water and electricity, and DEMAND to be treated like they are members of your household and insist that you also spend your $$$ for their children's education and also provide for their health needs when they are sick?

Would you be ok with that?

It has been proven time and again, when illegals are forced to leave, there is more work for the bona fide citizens. It helped during the Great Depression.

**Jiro** · 04-26-2010, 01:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steinhauer

Let me ask you this question - How would you like it if people were to enter into your house without permission, eat your food, sleep in your kids room, use your water and electricity, and DEMAND to be treated like they are members of your household and insist that you also spend your $$$ for their children's education and also provide for their health needs when they are sick?

huh? did that happen on most cases?

Steinhauer · 04-26-2010, 01:24 AM

The biggest racists are those who say that a particular segment of society (illegal immigrants) are supposed to get preferential treatment. All Illegal immigrants whether from Mexico or Europe or the Middle East or the Far East are all law-breaking criminals and do not deserve to be rewarded for their criminal behavior.

Go back to where you came from and emigrate here legally.

Legal immigrants are welcome, illegal ones are not.

Is that simple enough ?

So, is it a crime or a civil right to enter the US illegally?

**Jiro** · 04-26-2010, 01:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steinhauer

The biggest racists are those who say that a particular segment of society (illegal immigrants) are supposed to get preferential treatment. All Illegal immigrants whether from Mexico or Europe or the Middle East or the Far East are all law-breaking criminals and do not deserve to be rewarded for their criminal behavior.

Go back to where you came from and emigrate here legally.

Legal immigrants are welcome, illegal ones are not.

Is that simple enough ?

rewarded? like what?

CJB · 04-26-2010, 01:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steinhauer

The biggest racists are those who say that a particular segment of society (illegal immigrants) are supposed to get preferential treatment. All Illegal immigrants whether from Mexico or Europe or the Middle East or the Far East are all law-breaking criminals and do not deserve to be rewarded for their criminal behavior.

Go back to where you came from and emigrate here legally.

Legal immigrants are welcome, illegal ones are not.

Is that simple enough ?

So, is it a crime or a civil right to enter the US illegally?

Point completely missed. The racist part here isn't the fact that the illegal immigrants are illegal, but rather, the fact that police officers can now suspect people of being illegal immigrants, and despite what supporters say, it doesn't take a neurosurgeon to realize most officers will have little to go by other than race. As in racial profiling. As in that's racist.

Steinhauer · 04-26-2010, 01:31 AM

I didn't realize illegal was a race, I thought it was a crime

CJB · 04-26-2010, 01:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steinhauer

I didn't realize illegal was a race, I thought it was a crime

Again, I'm not talking about the illegal immigrants here. I'm talking about the process used to identify potential illegal immigrants.

**Jiro** · 04-26-2010, 01:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steinhauer

I didn't realize illegal was a race, I thought it was a crime

who do you think the officers are more likely to "ask" the immigrants to show their documents? Europeans? Mexicans? Chinese? Arabs?

do you think it's right for officers to ask the American-born person of different race to show the document?

**Jiro** · 04-26-2010, 01:34 AM

and loving how Steinhauer avoids pretty much all my key questions

Steinhauer · 04-26-2010, 02:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

who do you think the officers are more likely to "ask" the immigrants to show their documents? Europeans? Mexicans? Chinese? Arabs?

do you think it's right for officers to ask the American-born person of different race to show the document?

You mean when I am pulled over, I don't need to show my drivers license?

I thought cops did that to everyone regardless of race, gender, religion, creed, sexual orientation or nation of origin.

Interesting, I love how you avoid the fact my Mexican cousins actually applaud this law. Of course, their daddy came here legally

But please, continue with you fantasy of these "pre" crimes committed by the LEO's as opposed to the "current" crimes of illegal immigration.

**Jiro** · 04-26-2010, 02:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steinhauer

You mean when I am pulled over, I don't need to show my drivers license?

if you have a critical thinking skill as you claimed - then you should be saying "proof of citizenship" rather than driver license because driver license is not a proof of your immigration status.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steinhauer

I thought cops did that to everyone regardless of race, gender, religion, creed, sexual orientation or nation of origin.

oh really?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steinhauer

Interesting, I love how you avoid the fact my Mexican cousins actually applaud this law. Of course, their daddy came here legally

But please, continue with you fantasy of these "pre" crimes committed by the LEO's as opposed to the "current" crimes of illegal immigration.

fantasy? Ah you haven't been reading newspapers, I see. It has already happened for decades...... before we were born.

**Jiro** · 04-26-2010, 02:18 AM

oh btw - forgive me but because of your shaky credibility... I don't really buy it about your Mexican cousins applauding about this new law. "he said, she said" you know

CJB · 04-26-2010, 02:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steinhauer

I thought cops did that to everyone regardless of race, gender, religion, creed, sexual orientation or nation of origin.

Funny you mention this because something that is often brought up in communities of color is how people of color tend to get ID'ed and arrested more often than white people. So yes, cops do that to everyone, but not in same percentages.

Steinhauer · 04-26-2010, 02:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

if you have a critical thinking skill as you claimed - then you should be saying "proof of citizenship" rather than driver license because driver license is not a proof of your immigration status.

oh really?

fantasy? Ah you haven't been reading newspapers, I see. It has already happened for decades...... before we were born.

Oh yes, you can thank those who feel illegal immigrants should have rights, such as ..... driving, for that one.

**Jiro** · 04-26-2010, 02:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steinhauer

Oh yes, you can thank those who feel illegal immigrants should have rights, such as ..... driving, for that one.

again - what rights? it's illegal anyway. The illegals shouldn't have driver license because they do not have proper documents to get one. They... obviously obtained the driver licenses illegally.

Steinhauer · 04-26-2010, 02:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

again - what rights? it's illegal anyway. The illegals shouldn't have driver license because they do not have proper documents to get one. They... obviously obtained the driver licenses illegally.

And officers are trained to tell the difference from a fake i.d. and a real one. So how would it be racial profiling for an officer to ask for identification?

Example - at a routine traffic stop, an officer asks a Hispanic person for identification. At another routine traffic stop, an officer asks a Caucasian woman for identification.

Suppose the officer is Asian. Suppose the Caucasian woman was an illegal immigrant.

Was the officer racial profiling?

You see how your argument does not make any sense given the above illustration?

souggy · 04-26-2010, 02:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

if you have a critical thinking skill as you claimed - then you should be saying "proof of citizenship" rather than driver license because driver license is not a proof of your immigration status.

oh really?

fantasy? Ah you haven't been reading newspapers, I see. It has already happened for decades...... before we were born.

I find it amusing people "suddenly" forgot their Polish, Irish, Italian Japanese and German origins and they were treated by other American-borns.

souggy · 04-26-2010, 03:38 AM

Wirelessly posted

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

oh btw - forgive me but because of your shaky credibility... I don't really buy it about your Mexican cousins applauding about this new law. "he said, she said" you know

Mexican is soooo vague.

You know, there's a world-famous Chilean director; he's not a Latino... He's a Ukrainian Jew...

kokonut · 04-26-2010, 04:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CJB

I meant to say "illegal aliens." Thanks for catching my error.

Quoting crime rates to begin with is a red herring. How is that relevant to the discussion of their status? Legal citizens commit crimes too. It's just another "reason" people come up with to justify hating illegal aliens above and beyond the "threat" they cause.

No, it's not a red herring. I've not diverted the issue about illegal aliens. You have by concentrating on citizens who break laws. That's not the issue, it's about illegal aliens. It has been shown that with increasing number of illegal aliens you see an increase in crime rate. "Illegal aliens in the United States have a crime rate that's two and a half times that of citizen-taxpayer Americans." All of that adds to the strain of our resources that impact U.S. citizens.
Wooldridge - How Much Further Into This Nightmare?

**Reba** · 04-26-2010, 07:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Foxrac

I LOL'D.

Illegal immigrants are just human and they should be deport without mistreat or abuse them, just smooth to put them in Mexico if they crossing into US.

I agree with that. There's no need to mistreat them or abuse them.

**Reba** · 04-26-2010, 07:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whatdidyousay!

"Most people in this country don't know what harassment is. " Are you joking ! I was pulled over by the cops in Boston for being with a Black man!
The cops told us they did did not like the looks of us , meaning they did not like seeing a White woman with a Black man! And the cops said they would harass us any time they saw us!
And they did , four cops ran after us while we were walking on the sidewalk and rough up my boyfriend! . There thousands of people that know how it feel to be
harass in our country! Kids are bullies every day across the country and that is harassment! I had a Black that shot because he slip on ice and touch as white woman by mistake! Her boyfriend tried to kill my friend for being a Black man! If that had been a white that touch the woman it would had ok!
My friend said he was sorry a couple of times but that was not good enough!
My friend was able to pick up a cover from a trash can and hit the guy with it
after being shot! I was happy to heard that!

Wow, Boston is more racist than the South!

In South Carolina, interracial couples are common, and the police don't pay attention to them.

**Reba** · 04-26-2010, 07:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Berry

...Nowadays if a kid is convicted of shoplifting they have "a record that will haunt them for the rest of their life."

Is a first-time youth offender conviction of shoplifting commonly a felony?

**Reba** · 04-26-2010, 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whatdidyousay!

So you think it ok to pull over any person that does not look like he was born here! I am sure glad my brother -in law does not live in AZ . as he not born here! And yes he it legal!...

If your brother-in-law is legal and carries documentation with him, what does he have to worry about?

**Reba** · 04-26-2010, 07:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Berry

So what are you going to do with Native American Indians and halfbreeds like me, whose biological father was born on Cherokee land and technically was never a "citizen"?

Native American Netroots: Citizenship

Edit: BTW Native American Indians are now considered citizens.... I guess they paid their debt to society as well.

Thanks for the link to a very interesting chronology of Native American citizenship.

I know you are being sarcastic about the "debt to society" statement. It's obvious that the Native Americans had not committed a felony for which they were being punished. They weren't criminals who had a debt to pay. It was politics, power plays and culture clashes. It was a mess, and the American government screwed up big time. But I don't think it's the same issue as people crossing American borders illegally.

**Reba** · 04-26-2010, 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by souggy

...Maybe for once... we should go after the drug lords instead of the drug dealers, the big corporates looking for cheap labour instead of the illegal labourers, the breeders instead of the traffickers, the arms hoarders instead of the middlemen, the agents instead of the prostitutes.

I thought law enforcement agencies were attacking from both directions?

souggy · 04-26-2010, 07:57 AM

Wirelessly posted

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

Quote:

Originally Posted by Berry

So what are you going to do with Native American Indians and halfbreeds like me, whose biological father was born on Cherokee land and technically was never a "citizen"?

Native American Netroots: Citizenship

Edit: BTW Native American Indians are now considered citizens.... I guess they paid their debt to society as well.

Thanks for the link to a very interesting chronology of Native American citizenship.

I know you are being sarcastic about the "debt to society" statement. It's obvious that the Native Americans had not committed a felony for which they were being punished. They weren't criminals who had a debt to pay. It was politics, power plays and culture clashes. It was a mess, and the American government screwed up big time. But I don't think it's the same issue as people crossing American borders illegally.

But one can draw parallel with the lack of humane treatments and deprivation of basic human rights.

**Reba** · 04-26-2010, 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steinhauer

well, I don't want to live in a world where you give gun ownership rights back to convicted rapists and murderers .... but if you want to, why not move to a country that does?

That would presume a country where everyone had gun ownership rights to begin with, that is, prior to a criminal conviction. I don't think you'll find that combination.

Anyway, I don't support allowing felons who were convicted of violent crimes to have gun ownership rights reinstated.

souggy · 04-26-2010, 08:01 AM

Wirelessly posted

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

Quote:

Originally Posted by souggy

...Maybe for once... we should go after the drug lords instead of the drug dealers, the big corporates looking for cheap labour instead of the illegal labourers, the breeders instead of the traffickers, the arms hoarders instead of the middlemen, the agents instead of the prostitutes.

I thought law enforcement agencies were attacking from both directions?

Well, it's not working.

Somehow those animal breeders are still allowed to run businesses, even though it's obviously illegal according to Lacey Act... Instead they nab the exotic traffickers instead.

Same thing can be said about druglords-- FBI and DEA rather let the evidences and proxy parties accumilate rather than nipping the issue in the bud.

04-26-2010, 01:34 AM	#281 (permalink)
Jiro Aparecium Deletrius Legil Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: The Soprano State Posts: 60,419	and loving how Steinhauer avoids pretty much all my key questions __________________ - Don't forget to buy Jiro's Special Edition Sunglasses for $19.95

04-26-2010, 02:18 AM	#284 (permalink)
Jiro Aparecium Deletrius Legil Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: The Soprano State Posts: 60,419	oh btw - forgive me but because of your shaky credibility... I don't really buy it about your Mexican cousins applauding about this new law. "he said, she said" you know __________________ - Don't forget to buy Jiro's Special Edition Sunglasses for $19.95

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04-26-2010, 01:24 AM	#275 (permalink)
Steinhauer Banned Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 8,191 Blog Entries: 1	The biggest racists are those who say that a particular segment of society (illegal immigrants) are supposed to get preferential treatment. All Illegal immigrants whether from Mexico or Europe or the Middle East or the Far East are all law-breaking criminals and do not deserve to be rewarded for their criminal behavior. Go back to where you came from and emigrate here legally. Legal immigrants are welcome, illegal ones are not. Is that simple enough ? So, is it a crime or a civil right to enter the US illegally?

04-26-2010, 01:31 AM	#278 (permalink)
Steinhauer Banned Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 8,191 Blog Entries: 1	I didn't realize illegal was a race, I thought it was a crime