Health Care to "control the people" - Page 6

souggy · 03-26-2010, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sallylou

The problem with people in business is their reliance on mathematical exponential growth. It only works well for bacteria.

**sallylou** · 03-26-2010, 10:10 PM

I love the Magic School Bus. I think that I have that episode.

**TXgolfer** · 03-26-2010, 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sallylou

The problem with people in business is their reliance on mathematical exponential growth. It only works well for bacteria.

Growth breeds innovation

Not sure about exponential growth....lol (when you see that PM me quickly)

But the fact remains the model isn't going to change. An action by government causes a reaction by business. It's chess. Of course government can always choose to make 4 moves at once....it's their board. Will businesses choose to continue playing once that happens????

**Jiro** · 03-26-2010, 11:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

What makes you think the accident rate is going to go up just because coverage is mandated? That's quite a reach.

huh what? no that's not what I said at all.

I said - because of GROWING number of accidents and injured victims being drowned in medical debt.... the government had to step in and require the drivers to have an automobile insurance that will pay for the injured parties.

**Reba** · 03-27-2010, 12:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tousi

Public servants, eh? You mean perpetual chair-warmers?

**Reba** · 03-27-2010, 12:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

You can estimate your own subsidy by using the Kaiser subsidy calculator

Too bad the only options are "single adult" and "family of four". Neither one fits my situation.

**Jiro** · 03-27-2010, 12:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

No, actually it's called a hyphenated word.

The economy being different has virtually nothing to do with people thinking they have all the time in the world. That is simply a lack of maturity. But preventive care has been shown to work. People not being able to access preventive care because they have a maximum to fulfill before their insurance kicks in, or not being insured at all, is the main reason that people don't utilize preventive care services.

actually it does. how is it lack of maturity when Europe is known as welfare state? Europe has a very strict work laws - work 35 hrs a week, 5 weeks vacation, and 20 holidays per year (those # are slightly different depending on European country).

Untangling the myths of working time: How long is the European working week?

Quote:

The split in social philosophies at the heart of Europe between libertarian 'American-style' values pursued by the UK, Ireland and many new EU states and the more welfare-orientated 'social model' maintained by many continental western European states such as France, Sweden and the Netherlands has recently come to a head over the issue of the UK's continued opt-out from the maximum working week.

The real problem about working time, however, is not the imposition of statutory upper limits, but a social framework that makes it impossible for companies to operate efficiently within these limits. Rather than preventing those who wish to work longer hours from improving their income levels, the focus for EU policymakers should be on increasing the proportion of the employed workforce that are available to carry out their jobs. This means taking a long hard look at how much employee benefits are creating a 'time off' culture and providing financial incentives to spend too much time absent from work.

Eastern Europeans Are 'Hardest Working' - Forbes.com

Quote:

Meanwhile, David Coats, Associate Director at the Work Foundation in London, told Forbes.com that productivity was rising in Europe despite the EU rules to reduce working times, which didn't mean the environment was less business friendly.

"Europeans might be working less hours but their productivity remains high. In the United States, people take the money and work longer hours, whereas in Europe people take less money and use more time for themselves. This doesn't make Europe less business friendly. These are simply choices societies make," Coats said.

as the person said above - it's simply a choice that societies make. If you do not like this kind of life in America, then go simply move somewhere that fits your ideal.

In this country - everybody can progress in terms of wealth and class easier than anywhere else in the world... and everybody has a choice. Can you do that in Europe?

**TXgolfer** · 03-27-2010, 01:06 AM

It's amazing to me they can get anything done with a 35 hr week. I seriously don't think I ever worked less than 70 hrs in a week. And 5 weeks vacation???? I never would have wanted that much time off. My goal was to get thru with working quickly then retire and enjoy. Glad I lived in a country that would let me work as much as I wanted.
sheesh

kokonut · 03-27-2010, 09:47 AM

Yeah, if they ever push it up to 40 hours a week they'd call it a human rights violation.

kokonut · 03-27-2010, 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TXgolfer

I should have included an emoticon

The fight here was more about how helmet laws and seat belt laws came about. The Fed gov threatened Texas with loss of highway funds if they didn't comply with Fed guidelines. That didn't sit well with many.

That is also how our legal drinking age came to be 21. It was 18 until 1980 or so. Changed to 19 until 1986 when it became 21.

Question is whether it is right for the Federal Government to withhold funds to compel state law changes when the citizens and businesses of that state provide the government with those funds in the first place.

I was first legal to drink alcohol, then not legal, soon legal again, then soon not legal, legal again, not legal and then finally legal again to drink alcoholic beverages. I could've been arrested for drinking those times while others not so.

**TXgolfer** · 03-27-2010, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kokonut

I was first legal to drink alcohol, then not legal, soon legal again, then soon not legal, legal again, not legal and then finally legal again to drink alcoholic beverages. I could've been arrested for drinking those times while others not so.

i was legal fo 22 months then illegal for 2. In Florida the grandfathered the age which made more sense. We were legal to drink there for spring break.

kokonut · 03-27-2010, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kokonut

I was first legal to drink alcohol, then not legal, soon legal again, then soon not legal, legal again, not legal and then finally legal again to drink alcoholic beverages. I could've been arrested for drinking those times while others not so.

And that was in one state, too.

03-27-2010, 11:47 AM

The government should be subjected to what they are subjecting the people to with any and all of their laws. It's interesting that they are exempt from social security and also this new health care bill. If I understand correctly, that is un-constitutional.

darkdog · 03-27-2010, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by souggy

Butterfly effect.

You can't use the butterfly effect to justify the government controlling something. My sitting here right now typing this up could have a butterfly effect- that doesn't give the government the right to force me to do it or not to do it.

souggy · 03-27-2010, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkdog

You can't use the butterfly effect to justify the government controlling something. My sitting here right now typing this up could have a butterfly effect- that doesn't give the government the right to force me to do it or not to do it.

You need a humour radar.

darkdog · 03-27-2010, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by souggy

You need a humour radar.

I guess that one was flying too low to the ground to detect.

**sallylou** · 03-27-2010, 02:03 PM

The toddlers creed:

It's mine. You can't tell me what to do!

souggy · 03-27-2010, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sallylou

The toddlers creed:

It's mine. You can't tell me what to do!

netrox · 03-27-2010, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockdrummer

The government should be subjected to what they are subjecting the people to with any and all of their laws. It's interesting that they are exempt from social security and also this new health care bill. If I understand correctly, that is un-constitutional.

If it's unconstitutional, then we should do the same for SSA.

souggy · 03-27-2010, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by netrox

If it's unconstitutional, then we should do the same for SSA.

I think he's saying it's unconstitutional for the government to be exempted from SSA and healthcare.

flip · 03-27-2010, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

as the person said above - it's simply a choice that societies make. If you do not like this kind of life in America, then go simply move somewhere that fits your ideal.

In this country - everybody can progress in terms of wealth and class easier than anywhere else in the world... and everybody has a choice. Can you do that in Europe?

Yes. It's no problem. We can demand 5 weeks off, or take less weeks off, you can't do that. We can work 70 hours a week, but we can also refuse do to so. It's a choice you don't have in the states.

souggy · 03-27-2010, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flip

Yes. It's no problem. We can demand 5 weeks off, or take less weeks off, you can't do that. We can work 70 hours a week, but we can also refuse do to so. It's a choice you don't have in the states.

We do have that choice, but then we would be homeless.

flip · 03-27-2010, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by souggy

We do have that choice, but then we would be homeless.

Just waiting for some laissez-faire capitalists jumping in here, claiming that beeing homeless is a choice made by free will..

It seems that people put different meanings in "freedom", but I would suggest anyone to try to work in europe before make judgements. Be warned, 5 weeks off is addictive

**TXgolfer** · 03-27-2010, 03:52 PM

In the US it is a choice

souggy · 03-27-2010, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flip

Just waiting for some laissez-faire capitalists jumping in here, claiming that beeing homeless is a choice made by free will..

It seems that people put different meanings in "freedom", but I would suggest anyone to try to work in europe before make judgements. Be warned, 5 weeks off is addictive

Well, I know what you meant, but I giggle when people say they don't have a choice-- yeah, you do have a choice, but the consequence of the other is undesirable.

Homelessness is seldom a choice though. I say seldom because many I have met want a job if given a chance, but I know of one person (who appear homeless, but isn't) that said that they make more money begging than working... So..

flip · 03-27-2010, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TXgolfer

In the US it is a choice

Whose choice is it? Not the worker indeed.

jillio · 03-27-2010, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

huh what? no that's not what I said at all.

I said - because of GROWING number of accidents and injured victims being drowned in medical debt.... the government had to step in and require the drivers to have an automobile insurance that will pay for the injured parties.

My bad. When you said we were going to have that many more injured to take care of, it sounded to me as if you were saying that the accident rate was going to go up as a result of reform.

jillio · 03-27-2010, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by souggy

Well, I know what you meant, but I giggle when people say they don't have a choice-- yeah, you do have a choice, but the consequence of the other is undesirable.

Homelessness is seldom a choice though. I say seldom because many I have met want a job if given a chance, but I know of one person (who appear homeless, but isn't) that said that they make more money begging than working... So..

Thank you, thank you, thank you!!!

I have said it time and again here. You always have a choice. What you mean when you say you don't have a choice is that you don't want to accept the consequences for making the choice.

jillio · 03-27-2010, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkdog

You can't use the butterfly effect to justify the government controlling something. My sitting here right now typing this up could have a butterfly effect- that doesn't give the government the right to force me to do it or not to do it.

No one is forcing you to do anything. You still have a choice.

jillio · 03-27-2010, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by souggy

You need a humour radar.

Looks like several around here do.

BTW, I got it.

03-26-2010, 10:10 PM	#152 (permalink)
sallylou Potterhead and Janeite Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: My own private Idaho Posts: 6,653	I love the Magic School Bus. I think that I have that episode. __________________

03-27-2010, 09:47 AM	#159 (permalink)
kokonut Registered User Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 15,348	Yeah, if they ever push it up to 40 hours a week they'd call it a human rights violation. __________________ Before AD. After AD. "Restriction on free thought and free speech is the most dangerous of all subversions. It is the one un-American act that could most easily defeat us." -Thurgood Marshall, former Supreme Court Justice "... turns out they are telling the truth."

03-27-2010, 02:03 PM	#167 (permalink)
sallylou Potterhead and Janeite Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: My own private Idaho Posts: 6,653	The toddlers creed: It's mine. You can't tell me what to do! __________________

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03-27-2010, 01:06 AM	#158 (permalink)
TXgolfer Dream Weaver Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Everywhere Posts: 17,559	It's amazing to me they can get anything done with a 35 hr week. I seriously don't think I ever worked less than 70 hrs in a week. And 5 weeks vacation???? I never would have wanted that much time off. My goal was to get thru with working quickly then retire and enjoy. Glad I lived in a country that would let me work as much as I wanted. sheesh

03-27-2010, 11:47 AM	#163 (permalink)
rockdrummer Guest Posts: n/a	The government should be subjected to what they are subjecting the people to with any and all of their laws. It's interesting that they are exempt from social security and also this new health care bill. If I understand correctly, that is un-constitutional.

03-27-2010, 03:52 PM	#174 (permalink)
TXgolfer Dream Weaver Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Everywhere Posts: 17,559	In the US it is a choice