Increasing the Minimum Wage......

Hey, if you are making minimum wage, I've got some good news: Your life is about to change. Yes, it's time to celebrate; you just got a raise — from $6.55 an hour, all the way to $7.25 an hour.

What will you do with all that extra money? Retire? Buy a boat?

Here's The One Thing: Increasing minimum wage is like hugging a polar bear. It looks all cute and cuddly, so you give it a shot. But then it rips your throat out.

Liberal rags like The New York Times are all for the increase: "The raise is badly needed," they say. But they also say it doesn't go far enough; it needs to be even higher.

President Obama agrees with that assessment. He's regularly voted for wage hikes and on the campaign trail he proposed lifting the minimum wage to $9.50 an hour by 2011.

Our current unemployment rate is 9.5 percent. But, it's even worse for teenagers — 24 percent. Worse yet for African-American teenagers — a staggering 38 percent (it goes up to 45 percent if you don't seasonably adjust the numbers.)

And who makes minimum wage?

Teenagers and youth — 53 percent of all minimum wage earners are aged 16 to 24. We've all been there making minimum wage, unless your first job was working the pole at Sluts & Steaks.

What granola-eating-socialists always forget to factor in when supporting jacking up the minimum wage is the employer. I know, those evil profit-driven trolls. People in government just assume the trolls have unending profits and the jobs will always be there.

If the jobs never go away, why not just raise the minimum wage to $50 per hour? That should solve some issues, right?

Of course not. That's why economists are estimating that at least 300,000 jobs will be lost due to the minimum wage hike. That's huge considering only about 2.8 million workers in America earn minimum wage.

So, why would Obama support a policy that directly hurts young people — especially the nearly half of African-American teenagers who are unemployed?

It makes sense if you are trying to transform America.

When Obama comes out and says the stimulus is working as planned — while the economy is tanking — people assume he's either an idiot or he's lying. I don't think it's either.

What happens when kids can't get a job? They become discouraged, disenfranchised. They look for somewhere to land and guess who is now there to swoop in? President Obama and his government programs and community service organizations like AmeriCorps.

Remember Michelle Obama's words:

MICHELLE OBAMA, 2/18/2008: Barack Obama will require you to work... Barack will never allow you to go back to your lives as usual, uninvolved, uninformed.

Are we to believe she was just kidding or just haphazardly stringing words together?

They are steering our youth into community service. Ted Kennedy and his ilk are even pushing the idea of forced service. They're incentivizing working for the government with promises of paying off college loans. The catch, of course, is you have to federalize your loan before they'll pay it. He wants you to be a bureaucrat slave to government.

I don't know, maybe I'm crazy for going down this road, but from what we already know about Washington, the truth is always stranger than fiction.

The sooner we realize that, the faster we'll be able to stop and go down a road paved with common sense.

Increasing the Minimum Wage Is Like Hugging a Polar Bear - Glenn Beck - FOXNews.com

It's good news but bad news for some small businesses.

Europe has higher minimum wage than in US.

It's also bad news for those who lose their jobs. Minimum wage laws always push up unemployment. Businesses will be forced to fire workers or won't be able to hire as many as they could otherwise.

darkdog said:

It's also bad news for those who lose their jobs. Minimum wage laws always push up unemployment. Businesses will be forced to fire workers or won't be able to hire as many as they could otherwise.

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That's myth but look in Europe, they have higher minimum wage and low unemployment than in US.

Foxrac said:

That's myth but look in Europe, they have higher minimum wage and low unemployment than in US.

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I'm not sure where you get the idea that it's a myth. There are numerous factors that affect the unemployment rate, minimum wage laws being just one. The unemployment rates may be lower in Europe right now, but in general, they've been higher. In particular, young minorities are hurt most by minimum wage laws. It happens in both the United States and Europe. One of the stated purposes of the Davis-Bacon Act in 1931 was to keep black workers, who were willing to work for cheaper than white workers, from taking white jobs. White racists in South Africa also pushed for minimum wages during apartheid for the same purpose.

Price floors (i.e. minimum wages) create a surplus and price ceilings create a shortage. Think of it this way. Suppose you're considering hiring me. Your condition is that my wage is no more than $7 an hour- any more and you can't afford it. My condition for accepting employment is a wage at least $6 an hour- any less and I'll go elsewhere. Fortunately, our conditions overlap, so we agree on somewhere between $6 and $7 an hour and a transaction is made. Now suppose a third party (i.e. government) enters the picture with its own conditions- a transaction may only occur if the wage is at least $7.50. I'm happy with that, but the government's condition (>$7.50) does not overlap your condition (<$7.00) so you don't hire me. You're out a worker who could have helped your business and I'm out a job I needed. for you and for me.

darkdog said:

One of the stated purposes of the Davis-Bacon Act in 1931 was to keep black workers, who were willing to work for cheaper than white workers, from taking white jobs. White racists in South Africa also pushed for minimum wages during apartheid for the same purpose.

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And you think our demand for minimum wage has somehow connected to those silly racist claims?

Price floors (i.e. minimum wages) create a surplus and price ceilings create a shortage. Think of it this way. Suppose you're considering hiring me. Your condition is that my wage is no more than $7 an hour- any more and you can't afford it. My condition for accepting employment is a wage at least $6 an hour- any less and I'll go elsewhere. Fortunately, our conditions overlap, so we agree on somewhere between $6 and $7 an hour and a transaction is made. Now suppose a third party (i.e. government) enters the picture with its own conditions- a transaction may only occur if the wage is at least $7.50. I'm happy with that, but the government's condition (>$7.50) does not overlap your condition (<$7.00) so you don't hire me. You're out a worker who could have helped your business and I'm out a job I needed. for you and for me.

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It doesn't happen IF you make a federal law because ALL businesses have to pay the minimium wage. Now, let's say that we all raise our wages a little bit... the cost of living will likely increase as well YET at the same time, the standard of living will be better.

It's difficult to explain how it works but I've observed that in countries where minimum wages are set higher, their standards of living are much higher and where minimum wages are low, their standards are worse.

You argued that by forcing businesses to pay more and losing some employees because you cannot afford them, you are actually creating better workplace - you would only retain the best and the ones that do poorly would have to be laid off and that in return makes the business more productive. And in the long run, people who performed poorly will be forced to compete more.

darkdog said:

I'm not sure where you get the idea that it's a myth. There are numerous factors that affect the unemployment rate, minimum wage laws being just one. The unemployment rates may be lower in Europe right now, but in general, they've been higher. In particular, young minorities are hurt most by minimum wage laws. It happens in both the United States and Europe. One of the stated purposes of the Davis-Bacon Act in 1931 was to keep black workers, who were willing to work for cheaper than white workers, from taking white jobs. White racists in South Africa also pushed for minimum wages during apartheid for the same purpose.

Price floors (i.e. minimum wages) create a surplus and price ceilings create a shortage. Think of it this way. Suppose you're considering hiring me. Your condition is that my wage is no more than $7 an hour- any more and you can't afford it. My condition for accepting employment is a wage at least $6 an hour- any less and I'll go elsewhere. Fortunately, our conditions overlap, so we agree on somewhere between $6 and $7 an hour and a transaction is made. Now suppose a third party (i.e. government) enters the picture with its own conditions- a transaction may only occur if the wage is at least $7.50. I'm happy with that, but the government's condition (>$7.50) does not overlap your condition (<$7.00) so you don't hire me. You're out a worker who could have helped your business and I'm out a job I needed. for you and for me.

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Minimum wage has nothing with rise of unemployment, it's very small chance since some small businesses made lame excuse to not hire many workers because of financial issue, they are just want you to work at very low paying like $3 per hour as they got very big profit, they don't give damn about you, you need support to fight the worker rights instead of companies got more money. Conservatives or republicans support businesses and don't care about our work rights and just make lame excuse to protect the businesses.

I'm talking about present, not between minimum wage and race issue.

netrox said:

And you think our demand for minimum wage has somehow connected to those silly racist claims?

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In modern times, I don't believe minimum wage laws have racist intent, but they have that effect. Back in the day, racists understood the real world effects and used that to their advantage. A few years ago, Andrew Young, a civil rights leader, went to Chicago to oppose an ordinance that would have raised the minimum wage to $10 an hour. He understood the deleterious effect it would have had on poor unskilled black workers.

netrox said:

It doesn't happen IF you make a federal law because ALL businesses have to pay the minimium wage. Now, let's say that we all raise our wages a little bit... the cost of living will likely increase as well YET at the same time, the standard of living will be better.

It's difficult to explain how it works but I've observed that in countries where minimum wages are set higher, their standards of living are much higher and where minimum wages are low, their standards are worse.

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You could argue that minimum wages in wealthy nations like the United States and European nations are higher than in poor countries, 3rd world countries in particular. There's certainly a correlation, but I think you have the causation backwards. Rich countries have the luxury of being able to impose higher minimum wages without causing economic calamity (except perhaps among certain demographics and small businesses). However, if you impose a $7/hour minimum wage on an underdeveloped country, it'll create economic chaos (as if there's not enough already). Nobody will be able to afford to hire anybody and foreign companies will move out.

netrox said:

You argued that by forcing businesses to pay more and losing some employees because you cannot afford them, you are actually creating better workplace - you would only retain the best and the ones that do poorly would have to be laid off and that in return makes the business more productive. And in the long run, people who performed poorly will be forced to compete more.

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Shedding the lowest paid workers may be rational for some businesses, but it may be totally irrational for others. Such decisions are best made by the owners who actually run the business and know the business' needs, not an aloof federal government implementing a one-size-fits-all policy.

Foxrac said:

Minimum wage has nothing with rise of unemployment, it's very small chance since some small businesses made lame excuse to not hire many workers because of financial issue, they are just want you to work at very low paying like $3 per hour as they got very big profit, they don't give damn about you, you need support to fight the worker rights instead of companies got more money. Conservatives or republicans support businesses and don't care about our work rights and just make lame excuse to protect the businesses.

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If a business offers a worker $3 an hour, the worker is free to say "hell no" and find a higher paying job elsewhere. If that's the only job in town, then the worker has to decide whether it's better to work for $3 an hour or be unemployed.

Workers can already set their own minimum wage. They can already say "I will not work for anything less than $7.25 an hour" and businesses are free to say "Okey dokey- you're worth it" or "Sorry, too much". But at least they're also free to come back and say "That's a bit too much, but how about $6.50 an hour?" and the worker can say "Well, that's a bit lower than I hoped, but it's better than being unemployed, so OK". With minimum wage laws, workers do not have the right to accept that offer. So I am fighting for workers' rights- the right to negotiate their own salaries without a third party interfering.

The statistics back it up. Look at the stats in that article. 24% unemployment among youth, 38% among black youth. Those are all correct. It's mostly young people who work minimum wage jobs, but once they get in the door, they don't stay at minimum wage for long. As long as they are reliable, they gradually get raises and promotions and move up the ladder. However, that doesn't happen if minimum wage laws keep them from getting in the door in the first place.

Foxrac said:

I'm talking about present, not between minimum wage and race issue.

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See my previous post. If I were a racist, I would support minimum wage laws (I'm not saying anyone who does is a racist- just urging people to look at the real world results and reconsider).

Foxrac said:

Minimum wage has nothing with rise of unemployment, it's very small chance since some small businesses made lame excuse to not hire many workers because of financial issue, they are just want you to work at very low paying like $3 per hour as they got very big profit, they don't give damn about you, you need support to fight the worker rights instead of companies got more money. Conservatives or republicans support businesses and don't care about our work rights and just make lame excuse to protect the businesses.

I'm talking about present, not between minimum wage and race issue.

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Small business owners aren't making "lame" excuses when they say they can't afford to hire more workers, and they don't get "very big" profits. Most small businesses have to keep their overhead expenses down just so they can stay in business.

Why do you think that small business owners (who usually work more hours than any of their employees, and take more risks) don't deserve whatever profit they earn?

Of course they have to protect their businesses. If their business collapses then ALL their employees will be out work. How does that help the employees?

darkdog said:

If a business offers a worker $3 an hour, the worker is free to say "hell no" and find a higher paying job elsewhere. If that's the only job in town, then the worker has to decide whether it's better to work for $3 an hour or be unemployed.

Workers can already set their own minimum wage. They can already say "I will not work for anything less than $7.25 an hour" and businesses are free to say "Okey dokey- you're worth it" or "Sorry, too much". But at least they're also free to come back and say "That's a bit too much, but how about $6.50 an hour?" and the worker can say "Well, that's a bit lower than I hoped, but it's better than being unemployed, so OK". With minimum wage laws, workers do not have the right to accept that offer. So I am fighting for workers' rights- the right to negotiate their own salaries without a third party interfering.

The statistics back it up. Look at the stats in that article. 24% unemployment among youth, 38% among black youth. Those are all correct. It's mostly young people who work minimum wage jobs, but once they get in the door, they don't stay at minimum wage for long. As long as they are reliable, they gradually get raises and promotions and move up the ladder. However, that doesn't happen if minimum wage laws keep them from getting in the door in the first place.


See my previous post. If I were a racist, I would support minimum wage laws (I'm not saying anyone who does is a racist- just urging people to look at the real world results and reconsider).

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I have say repeat, minimum wage law has NOTHING with race color, if you said so then that's past and there's MANY countries already have minimum wage law, I'm not going to relate or include of your discuss over race issue and that's lame excuse.

No, workers don't have rights to set their minimum wage, if there's no minimum wage law then more businesses would become treat so unfair when come with inflation, standard of living and income, all minimum wage must be based on inflation and without, many workers could left so poverty or face tough life. Like I said, you make lame excuse about how minimum wage law is bad, just like republicans did and none of your post has reach agreement with me.

Deal with it, if you don't like minimum wage law then toobad and many workers, even post-graduate students are unable to find job so need take job at minimum wage law as back up until they can find a better job. With $3 per hour in many place, I will left so poor and cannot afford to live on my own, even can't afford to pay the gas, I said sticking with minimum wage law that based on inflation.

Reba said:

Small business owners aren't making "lame" excuses when they say they can't afford to hire more workers, and they don't get "very big" profits. Most small businesses have to keep their overhead expenses down just so they can stay in business.

Why do you think that small business owners (who usually work more hours than any of their employees, and take more risks) don't deserve whatever profit they earn?

Of course they have to protect their businesses. If their business collapses then ALL their employees will be out work. How does that help the employees?

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If small businesses cannot afford to hire more workers then they shouldn't hire more workers until they able to afford, my point about minimum wage has nothing to harm the small business, they are trying to advantage of more profit and left workers so small pay, that what I'm not favor into it.

I had know about some small businesses want pay workers so low as $3 per hour or less to take advantage of profit, the current minimum wage rate is equal and reasonable as workers could handle with tough inflation, such as high gas price. Work at $3 per hour is extremely unacceptable and you should check about minimum wage and employment in Europe.

They do but minimum wage that calculated on inflation doesn't impact on businesses and it's business's responsible to take care of budget, regardless on hire more workers and economy is really bad so unemployment has driven up.

Foxrac said:

No, workers don't have rights to set their minimum wage

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Yes, they do. Workers can negotiate with employers and say "I won't work for any less than $12" (or whatever) and employers are free to say "Then go elsewhere". With a government-mandated minimum wage, the government basically comes in and says "He won't work for any less than $7.25 (or whatever)" and employers are still free to say "Then go elsewhere." There really is no difference, except in the latter, workers get no choice in the matter.

Employment isn't a zero-sum game. Both sides benefit. Businesses are no more greedy than workers- they both want to earn wealth from the transaction and that's fine. If I offer you a job for $5 an hour and you accept, what have I done wrong? If it was not beneficial to you, you would not have accepted. If you could have found a job next door paying $10, you would have taken that one. My offer has not limited your options- it only added to them. The reason you took it is because it's better than all your other options. Damn me for giving you an offer that's better than all your other options. If you're mad about it, then you're just mad about the fact that all of your options stink- hardly my fault.

I hold my position not only because I want to see businesses thrive, but also because I want to see workers thrive. As I pointed out, employment benefits both sides, so why would I support a policy that hurts both workers and businesses? If the unemployed, particularly those in the most vulnerable demographics (i.e. young and minority) can get their foot in the door and start working, then they can start the process of moving up into better paying and more prestigious positions. This is a very mobile economy and it happens all the time.

Foxrac said:

If small businesses cannot afford to hire more workers then they shouldn't hire more workers until they able to afford

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You just made my point. If minimum wage laws make it so businesses can't afford to hire more workers, then businesses won't hire more workers. Too bad for those workers who otherwise would have been hired.

So I'm curious- why not $100 an hour minimum wage? Wow, we'd all be so rich, right?

Foxrac said:

If small businesses cannot afford to hire more workers then they shouldn't hire more workers until they able to afford,

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Which is why Hubby and my daughter don't hire workers for their businesses. They can't afford to pay them. So they just work extra hours by themselves. That's true for many small business owners. They do more of the work themselves because they can't afford to hire other people.

I had know about some small businesses want pay workers so low as $3 per hour or less to take advantage of profit, the current minimum wage rate is equal and reasonable as workers could handle with tough inflation, such as high gas price.

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Guess what? When the price of gas and the cost of living increases, small business owners don't get paid more. Each time the price of gas increases, Hubby's income decreases. Workers aren't the only people affected by inflation and price increases.

Work at $3 per hour is extremely unacceptable and you should check about minimum wage and employment in Europe.

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Another big shock--I don't care what the people in Europe are earning. I care what we can earn here in America. I care how much Hubby can earn at his job. I care how much all the extra work is affecting his health.

They do but minimum wage that calculated on inflation doesn't impact on businesses and it's business's responsible to take care of budget, regardless on hire more workers and economy is really bad so unemployment has driven up.

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Yes, businesses are responsible for taking care of their budgets. That's why they have to decide to either increase salaries or lay off workers.

darkdog said:

Yes, they do. Workers can negotiate with employers and say "I won't work for any less than $12" (or whatever) and employers are free to say "Then go elsewhere". With a government-mandated minimum wage, the government basically comes in and says "He won't work for any less than $7.25 (or whatever)" and employers are still free to say "Then go elsewhere." There really is no difference, except in the latter, workers get no choice in the matter.

Employment isn't a zero-sum game. Both sides benefit. Businesses are no more greedy than workers- they both want to earn wealth from the transaction and that's fine. If I offer you a job for $5 an hour and you accept, what have I done wrong? If it was not beneficial to you, you would not have accepted. If you could have found a job next door paying $10, you would have taken that one. My offer has not limited your options- it only added to them. The reason you took it is because it's better than all your other options. Damn me for giving you an offer that's better than all your other options. If you're mad about it, then you're just mad about the fact that all of your options stink- hardly my fault.

I hold my position not only because I want to see businesses thrive, but also because I want to see workers thrive. As I pointed out, employment benefits both sides, so why would I support a policy that hurts both workers and businesses? If the unemployed, particularly those in the most vulnerable demographics (i.e. young and minority) can get their foot in the door and start working, then they can start the process of moving up into better paying and more prestigious positions. This is a very mobile economy and it happens all the time.


You just made my point. If minimum wage laws make it so businesses can't afford to hire more workers, then businesses won't hire more workers. Too bad for those workers who otherwise would have been hired.

So I'm curious- why not $100 an hour minimum wage? Wow, we'd all be so rich, right?

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I don't support $100 per hour for minimum wage, it supposed to based on inflation.

Reba said:

Which is why Hubby and my daughter don't hire workers for their businesses. They can't afford to pay them. So they just work extra hours by themselves. That's true for many small business owners. They do more of the work themselves because they can't afford to hire other people.



Guess what? When the price of gas and the cost of living increases, small business owners don't get paid more. Each time the price of gas increases, Hubby's income decreases. Workers aren't the only people affected by inflation and price increases.


Another big shock--I don't care what the people in Europe are earning. I care what we can earn here in America. I care how much Hubby can earn at his job. I care how much all the extra work is affecting his health.


Yes, businesses are responsible for taking care of their budgets. That's why they have to decide to either increase salaries or lay off workers.

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What are you doing if no one want work with your hubby or daughter if wage is very below than federal minimum wage, except for illegal immigrants would interest to get job.

I don't have any idea about where your hubby works and I don't understand why are you blame on minimum wage law?

I was gave you a interest info about minimum wage and living of standard in Europe and US, both of US and many countries in Europe are in great closer relation.

Now, economy is bad and we are face deflation, it means we wouldn't see increase of minimum wage until economy recover soon, that's terrible experience.

You can say if minimum wage is impact on small businesses but for me, it's not really.

Foxrac said:

What are you doing if no one want work with your hubby or daughter if wage is very below than federal minimum wage, except for illegal immigrants would interest to get job.

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I told you what they do. They do the work themselves. They don't hire other people because they can't afford to pay them. So they work extra long hours by themselves.

I don't have any idea about where your hubby works and I don't understand why are you blame on minimum wage law?

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I'm not "blaming" the minimum wage law. I'm just explaining the facts of small business life.

Hubby works for himself. He owns his own business.

Now, economy is bad and we are face deflation, it means we wouldn't see increase of minimum wage until economy recover soon, that's terrible experience.

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If we truly have deflation and the cost of living goes down, why would workers need to increase their wages? Deflation means products and living expenses should be cheaper.

You can say if minimum wage is impact on small businesses but for me, it's not really.

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Do you own a small business?

Foxrac, stop professing to be an expert on everything.

Foxrac said:

I don't support $100 per hour for minimum wage, it supposed to based on inflation.

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that's how much auto mechanics are earning nowadays

Foxrac said:

I don't support $100 per hour for minimum wage, it supposed to based on inflation.

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Why not? What could go wrong? Don't you want people to be rich?