Which country would seize when United States of America collapses? - Page 4

**Foxrac** · 12-03-2008, 08:32 AM

It's normal for capitalism to see economy goes boom or down, it happens in other countries, mostly developed countries and some part of Europe does has bad economy in past, same with Asian economy in around 90's, such as Japan. Both of military system and economy system aren't compare when come with government, there's many ways to how economy works, really alot of information.

I had disagree with one person about stated as push into dictatorship, being dictator wouldn't help the economy but trends to more worse and we are believe in freedom, yes way for constitution and no one could goes over our constitution and homogeneous of Americans are strongly oppose on dictatorship.

**Foxrac** · 12-03-2008, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maria

Well, first of all I think it is because, of lawlessness. And, secondly -- greedy, fraud, dishonesty, violate of trust, and the list goes on. That's the main reason why our America don't success very well and it became weak. What happened to America's blessings ? I am talkin' about America's future. Will America success through blessings like it was before in WWI & II ? I think America's future is very bleak - not 100% promisin', but at the same time, I believe there's a hope out there somewhere.

Question: Is it America always the country that the other foreign countries depend on ? Like for instance: Stock Market ? If, so -- I would like to know why it is always America that the whole world depend on when it comes to Stock Market for businesses ? I wonder, do each foreign country have their own Stock Market to help their own businesses without dependin' on our country ? I know, it is wrong to rely other foreign country's oil like the one in Saudia Arabia, but at the same time our American people don't want to drill in our land for oil -- save that alone in case for America's emergency when the time comes. I mean, just in case if, other foreign countries decide not to help America.

And, also I recalled readin' one of books, it tells about 3 or 4 different militaries/armies from other foreign countries to take over our country to send some American people to their foreign countries. For example: it explained about our American troops and that they need to be sendin' out to other foreign countries instead of protectin' our country, because if, American troops stay in our country, then they will feel sympathy to see American people suffer in the hands of foreign armies/troops ( abuses, tortures, and etc., etc. ). Foreign armies/troops will not feel sympathy toward American people. They are trained not to feel for other " foreign " people who don't live in their same country.

If, you ask me what foreign troops are. They are Russians, Chineses, Germans troops... more like " communist " troops. In book, it tells about the color of their United Nations caps. One foreign troops group's caps would be blue, and the other foreign troops group's caps would be red ... etc., etc. And, they will be dividin' all over in our country. America will be dividin' into parts and people can not escape from their own state to another state. The White House already have their own blue print for everythin' to prepare ahead if, ONE BIG " screw up " hits. We, the American people don't know anythin' about their plans and they don't want us to know what their plans are, because it will cause people to panic. They want to cover its lid and stay right there.....until the BIG ONE " screw up " takes over. When THAT happens, we are on our own without assistance.

The book I read gave me deep graphic and large picture to get the idea, so I will know what it really is, but that book don't give the real exact picture of what actual event will happen. But, it does give me some ideas. The other book is more intense to read... it's called " Red Alert." I read that book back in 1980's. I don't forget what that book was all about. Very intense book.

Just reply in bolded, yes, many other countries have stock market, it's normal for them to make share or invest with economy over world.

For oil in Saudi Arabia, Saudi is our friend and there's nothing is wrong to import the oil, economy wouldn't growing without import the oil because our domestic oil is limited then we have import the oil to keep the track, for me, I support drill the oil, I had changed my mind after used to against on it and don't know about congress would work out with lift the restriction to drill the oil (offshore and AK), this restriction law was very old.

In case, if middle east, including Saudi refuse to give oil to us then we can buy oil from other countries, such as Canada, Mexico or somewhere in South America. OPEC is partly blamed on expensive oil price and I believe that OPEC made biggest mistake with oil price but some oil countries aren't member of OPEC.

Byrdie714 · 12-03-2008, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

you're talking about peacetime. when it comes to war, economy's of no concern... economy's already at standstill when it comes to war. your dollars and coins mean nothing. the system is broken. the government is broken (as what OP said when the government has collapsed). It is now switched to war effort - the manufacturing of weapons (exactly like WWI & WWII). Plenty of those kind of factories in Virginia, Texas, and bunch of other states.

California and Washington will be hit first by Chinese or other invader. and when that happen - Californians will run away to East. Fear not... we will regain it back later.

Funny thing is... all these invasion stuff.... it makes a cool movie or game. it's pretty cool to fantasize about it. unfortunately..... in reality....... it's possibly very unlikely that it would ever happen because.. here's a thing - it took USA over 6 months to mobilize about 200,000 troops and tanks/choppers/etc to Iraq in 1991. Now how can invader actually mobilize that massive amount of troop QUIETLY to America without anybody knowing it? It's very easy to spot massive mobilization with spy satellites and it's very easy to discover this thru "chatter"

to be continued......

Not necessairly.....

Remember after the Crash of '29 when the US was in a Depression--it was the war that brought us out of the Depression. Sometimes war can be a boon or a bust for our economy. Afterall we do have to make weaponry for the soldiers.

Secondly I don't think that theCchinese will attack California and Washington first--afterall why attack the mainland when you still have a naval port still intact-- Hawai'i-- as they can come from the behind the Chinese to attack? It would be a military blunder. If the Chinese attack Hawai'i first--at least the western states will be ready for an all out attack.

If we have to surrender a couple states to the Chinese--I suggest New Jersey.

(j/k Jiro

)

Of course all this is hypothetical--in actuality-- I think that the US will just lose it's standing as a economic world power but nevertheless still retain itself as an influential partner in global affairs.

jswilson · 12-03-2008, 10:23 AM

Well! As far as Im concern, it was with great interest that I read a piece of articles in the paper last summer. Here it goes! Supposely that China sent in over 500 million soldiers across Alaska and march toward across Canada to USA! Would we be wipe out??

Silentwolfdog · 12-03-2008, 11:23 AM

I think somehow, world has lost a bit of faith in China due to their goods being tainted with lead or other chemicals.

If China does not support America in debt, then China probably won't survive on it own...after all who would trust China enough to doing the trade of goods?

There are discussing on TV at one time about people all over world may decide to go back to buying American goods even though it may cost $2 more, but at least we know it may be more safe than buying from other countries like China.

I don't mind going back to buying thing that is made in America.

Anyhow, I am with Jiro on what he said.

And this does sounds like it will make a good video game or movie.

***VamPyroX*** · 12-03-2008, 11:27 AM

If we HAD to sell to another country, I hope it's England. That way, everything stays the same... cuz we're already English.

Hwy99 · 12-03-2008, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

you're talking about peacetime. when it comes to war, economy's of no concern... economy's already at standstill when it comes to war. your dollars and coins mean nothing. the system is broken. the government is broken (as what OP said when the government has collapsed). It is now switched to war effort - the manufacturing of weapons (exactly like WWI & WWII). Plenty of those kind of factories in Virginia, Texas, and bunch of other states.

California and Washington will be hit first by Chinese or other invader. and when that happen - Californians will run away to East. Fear not... we will regain it back later.

Funny thing is... all these invasion stuff.... it makes a cool movie or game. it's pretty cool to fantasize about it. unfortunately..... in reality....... it's possibly very unlikely that it would ever happen because.. here's a thing - it took USA over 6 months to mobilize about 200,000 troops and tanks/choppers/etc to Iraq in 1991. Now how can invader actually mobilize that massive amount of troop QUIETLY to America without anybody knowing it? It's very easy to spot massive mobilization with spy satellites and it's very easy to discover this thru "chatter"

to be continued......

Bold fonts in the quote, actually California, Oregon, and Washington, also including Alaska was attacked by Japan. Alaska was the only state that Japan ever seized on America, and Oregon was only the state that Japan ever attacked the civilians.

Hwy99 · 12-03-2008, 11:47 AM

This link is what I talked about in my #97 post.

Attacks on North America during World War II - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

**Jiro** · 12-03-2008, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jswilson

Well! As far as Im concern, it was with great interest that I read a piece of articles in the paper last summer. Here it goes! Supposely that China sent in over 500 million soldiers across Alaska and march toward across Canada to USA! Would we be wipe out??

Russian government would not permit this at all... Neither does Canada. That means.... 3 countries against China... epic fail.

**Jiro** · 12-03-2008, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byrdie714

Not necessairly.....

Remember after the Crash of '29 when the US was in a Depression--it was the war that brought us out of the Depression. Sometimes war can be a boon or a bust for our economy. Afterall we do have to make weaponry for the soldiers.

yes... losing California does not make a huge dent on weapon manufacturing. At least the weapon factory plants in mid-west will have more manpower especially from fleeing Californians.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byrdie714

Secondly I don't think that theCchinese will attack California and Washington first--afterall why attack the mainland when you still have a naval port still intact-- Hawai'i-- as they can come from the behind the Chinese to attack? It would be a military blunder. If the Chinese attack Hawai'i first--at least the western states will be ready for an all out attack.

If we have to surrender a couple states to the Chinese--I suggest New Jersey.

(j/k Jiro

)

which is precisely why you shouldn't attack Hawaii first. You attack mainland first then hit Hawaii. Once you attack mainland.... the damage's already done and it's too late for navy to bail them out.

Major shipping ports on West Coast (there are over 29 ports) -
California - Los Angelos, Long Beach, San Diego, Oakland, so on...
Washington - Seattle, Tacoma

if I remember correctly - approximately 45% of Chinese products go thru West Coast via shipping ports. Now you see why I picked California and Washington as first target for Chinese? Simply hide military inside gigantic cargo/tanker ships. worse of all.... our military (especially tanks/strykers/etc) cannot be mobilized quickly enough thru major cities. California National Guards will have to defend long enough to evacuate the Californians. That's how we'll lose our Western states.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byrdie714

Of course all this is hypothetical--in actuality-- I think that the US will just lose it's standing as a economic world power but nevertheless still retain itself as an influential partner in global affairs.

yup that is the most likely scenario rather than invasion lol... but it does make a nice movie/game, eh?

**Beowulf** · 12-03-2008, 12:59 PM

Is there a "Philadelphia experiment" type of Stargate the armies could come through?

**Jiro** · 12-03-2008, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beowulf

Is there a "Philadelphia experiment" type of Stargate the armies could come through?

that's how Nazi invaded whole Europe and northern Africa so quickly

**Reba** · 12-03-2008, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byrdie714

...Secondly how do you reason that Ohio will have naval superiority when it doesn't even border a major ocean? I don't think Canada would appreciate seeing US Navy going through the St Lawrence to get to the Atlantic....

Most of the ships and subs can go thru the Seaway to the Great Lakes. Aircraft carriers cannot. I'm not sure about some of the larger subs and ships. Either way, they have to dead end at the lakes.

**Beowulf** · 12-03-2008, 01:10 PM

I would sure hate to fight against the modern military. We have such high-powered bullets that one shot through a house would suck out its inhabitants through the exit hole. Dang.

**Reba** · 12-03-2008, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beowulf

Is there a "Philadelphia experiment" type of Stargate the armies could come through?

I enjoyed reading that book years ago.

**Beowulf** · 12-03-2008, 01:14 PM

I read that book as well, Reba. Years and years and years ago.

**Reba** · 12-03-2008, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beowulf

In 1971 I read a book called "Vandenberg" by Oliver Lange. It was in the middle of the Cold War and the Russians took over the USA. We went out not with a bang, but a whimper. I recommend the book for reading, since it is still pertinent today as it was over 30 years ago. (Our downfall was apathy and accomodation, which is still true today.)

How about Red Dawn?

**Reba** · 12-03-2008, 01:21 PM

I haven't caught up with all the posts in this thread yet, so it might have been brought up before but here's my question: If we're supposing a military attack on CONUS that follows a total economic collapse, how do you expect to support the American military? The military needs fuel for its operations, and it needs heavy equipment and supplies to be replenished. If our country suffers a total economic collapse, how would we pay for foreign purchases of fuel and equipment? I don't think they'd accept our good looks as fair exchange.

**Jiro** · 12-03-2008, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beowulf

I would sure hate to fight against the modern military. We have such high-powered bullets that one shot through a house would suck out its inhabitants through the exit hole. Dang.

I know what you're talking about - the uranium-depleted bullets going thru tanks. It only works in sealed environment and tank is it.

**Jiro** · 12-03-2008, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

How about Red Dawn?

LOL great movie. wwooooollllvvvvveeeerrrriiiiinnnneeeeee!!!!!! LOL!

**Beowulf** · 12-03-2008, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

How about Red Dawn?

Saw the movie, not sure if there is a book by that name. I don't think it is technically feasible for the Russians to invade from the south. A LONG time ago I saw similar debates (in another forum) about invasion scenarios, and the most popular one was that the Chinese invade through the northwest while the Russians invade from the east.

**Reba** · 12-03-2008, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beowulf

Saw the movie, not sure if there is a book by that name. I don't think it is technically feasible for the Russians to invade from the south. A LONG time ago I saw similar debates (in another forum) about invasion scenarios, and the most popular one was that the Chinese invade through the northeast while the Russians invade from the east.

Was the eastern invasion by Russians supposing that they used former "Eastern Bloc" nations for staging?

**Jiro** · 12-03-2008, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

I haven't caught up with all the posts in this thread yet, so it might have been brought up before but here's my question: If we're supposing a military attack on CONUS that follows a total economic collapse, how do you expect to support the American military? The military needs fuel for its operations, and it needs heavy equipment and supplies to be replenished. If our country suffers a total economic collapse, how would we pay for foreign purchases of fuel and equipment? I don't think they'd accept our good looks as fair exchange.

we use what we have. We have Europe on our back to supply us but not much. Beside they owe us big time... for WW1 and WW2....

As for fuel - that's what Texas is for. and plus... U.S. Petroleum Reserves. Total economic collapse means.. our dollars are worthless but we've got Fort Knox!! the gold!

You gotta love USA for coming up with many contingencies for even far-fetched scenarios!!

**Beowulf** · 12-03-2008, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

Was the eastern invasion by Russians supposing that they used former "Eastern Bloc" nations for staging?

That was one scenario, but I have heard others far more esoteric, lol.

**Reba** · 12-03-2008, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

we use what we have. We have Europe on our back to supply us but not much. Beside they owe us big time... for WW1 and WW2....

As for fuel - that's what Texas is for. and plus... U.S. Petroleum Reserves. Total economic collapse means.. our dollars are worthless but we've got Fort Knox!! the gold!

You gotta love USA for coming up with many contingencies for even far-fetched scenarios!!

I don't know how helpful Europe could be, especially if they have their own economy problems. If our economy collapses, it will effect their economies, too.

How long do you think the current oil reserves would last?

Also, whatever local oil we have in the ground or under the ocean, it still needs to be refined and delivered. That's something that can't happen overnight.

Shopping with Fort Knox gold might be a logistics problem. Also, the USA is not on the gold standard, so is there enough gold there? I don't know, so I'm asking.

dead money · 12-03-2008, 01:35 PM

i know of a book somewhere as well--cannot think of the title (and its pissing me off ha).. but it has to do w/ if Germany won WW2, and eventually took over America. I wanted to pick it up soooo bad from Barnes & Noble but i didnt have the funds at the time

But scenarios like that interest me as well.

**Jiro** · 12-03-2008, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

I don't know how helpful Europe could be, especially if they have their own economy problems. If our economy collapses, it will effect their economies, too.

that's why I said "not much...." the best they can do for us is humanitarian effort - food, medicine, etc.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

How long do you think the current oil reserves would last?

probably enough for war effort against invader

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

Also, whatever local oil we have in the ground or under the ocean, it still needs to be refined and delivered. That's something that can't happen overnight.

That's what Texas and surrounding states are for. Some in North-eastern states as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

Shopping with Fort Knox gold might be a logistics problem. Also, the USA is not on the gold standard, so is there enough gold there? I don't know, so I'm asking.

probably enough for war effort

**Jiro** · 12-03-2008, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dead money

i know of a book somewhere as well--cannot think of the title (and its pissing me off ha).. but it has to do w/ if Germany won WW2, and eventually took over America. I wanted to pick it up soooo bad from Barnes & Noble but i didnt have the funds at the time

But scenarios like that interest me as well.

get it from public library. Please do tell me the title of book if you finally remember

**Beowulf** · 12-03-2008, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

I don't know how helpful Europe could be, especially if they have their own economy problems. If our economy collapses, it will effect their economies, too.

How long do you think the current oil reserves would last?

Also, whatever local oil we have in the ground or under the ocean, it still needs to be refined and delivered. That's something that can't happen overnight.

Shopping with Fort Knox gold might be a logistics problem. Also, the USA is not on the gold standard, so is there enough gold there? I don't know, so I'm asking.

I agree that it's not likely they will just hand out the Fort Knox gold. I have been collecting gold and silver for quite some time now, and I am astonished gold is so cheap. The US dollar is already dead in Europe, and I can see the not-too-distant future where a suitcase full of US dollars would be worthless. Someone might rob you at gunpoint, dump out the dollars and run away with the suitcase.

TFWFalcon · 12-03-2008, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dead money

i know of a book somewhere as well--cannot think of the title (and its pissing me off ha).. but it has to do w/ if Germany won WW2, and eventually took over America. I wanted to pick it up soooo bad from Barnes & Noble but i didnt have the funds at the time

But scenarios like that interest me as well.

Same here I been watch history channel. German U-Boats did went in Gulf of Mexico and plan attack at New Orlean. It is fail due US patrol planes caught them. US Navy thought it is whale but they keep fly lower to take look closer gotcha it is U-Boat!. bang kill them.

PS I would like to read that book too.

12-03-2008, 08:32 AM	#91 (permalink)
Foxrac Need Stormtroopers? Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Zaphias Posts: 32,635	It's normal for capitalism to see economy goes boom or down, it happens in other countries, mostly developed countries and some part of Europe does has bad economy in past, same with Asian economy in around 90's, such as Japan. Both of military system and economy system aren't compare when come with government, there's many ways to how economy works, really alot of information. I had disagree with one person about stated as push into dictatorship, being dictator wouldn't help the economy but trends to more worse and we are believe in freedom, yes way for constitution and no one could goes over our constitution and homogeneous of Americans are strongly oppose on dictatorship. __________________ In Moto We Trust

12-03-2008, 11:23 AM	#95 (permalink)
Silentwolfdog Registered User Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Earth Posts: 931	I think somehow, world has lost a bit of faith in China due to their goods being tainted with lead or other chemicals. If China does not support America in debt, then China probably won't survive on it own...after all who would trust China enough to doing the trade of goods? There are discussing on TV at one time about people all over world may decide to go back to buying American goods even though it may cost $2 more, but at least we know it may be more safe than buying from other countries like China. I don't mind going back to buying thing that is made in America. Anyhow, I am with Jiro on what he said. And this does sounds like it will make a good video game or movie. __________________ If you are using red or blue font, there's a good chance that I am not reading your posts due to it being blended into background! I have loved the stars too fondly to be fearful of the night. ~Sarah William Check my art at http://silentwolfdog.deviantart.com

12-03-2008, 11:27 AM	#96 (permalink)
*VamPyroX* bloody phreak from hell Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: 40.18, 58.41 Posts: 34,162	If we HAD to sell to another country, I hope it's England. That way, everything stays the same... cuz we're already English. __________________ Check out my city... C L I C K H E R E! (If you've already visited yesterday, visit again today!)

12-03-2008, 01:35 PM	#116 (permalink)
dead money Registered User Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 1,492	i know of a book somewhere as well--cannot think of the title (and its pissing me off ha).. but it has to do w/ if Germany won WW2, and eventually took over America. I wanted to pick it up soooo bad from Barnes & Noble but i didnt have the funds at the time But scenarios like that interest me as well. __________________ mike matusow...or god for short.

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12-03-2008, 10:23 AM	#94 (permalink)
jswilson Registered User Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 23	Well! As far as Im concern, it was with great interest that I read a piece of articles in the paper last summer. Here it goes! Supposely that China sent in over 500 million soldiers across Alaska and march toward across Canada to USA! Would we be wipe out??

12-03-2008, 11:47 AM	#98 (permalink)
Hwy99 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: A town in middle of the rolling hills Posts: 6,141	This link is what I talked about in my #97 post. Attacks on North America during World War II - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

12-03-2008, 12:59 PM	#101 (permalink)
Beowulf Premium Member Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 10,515	Is there a "Philadelphia experiment" type of Stargate the armies could come through?

12-03-2008, 01:10 PM	#104 (permalink)
Beowulf Premium Member Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 10,515	I would sure hate to fight against the modern military. We have such high-powered bullets that one shot through a house would suck out its inhabitants through the exit hole. Dang.

12-03-2008, 01:14 PM	#106 (permalink)
Beowulf Premium Member Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 10,515	I read that book as well, Reba. Years and years and years ago.

12-03-2008, 01:21 PM	#108 (permalink)
Reba Granny Terp Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: South Carolina Posts: 39,195	I haven't caught up with all the posts in this thread yet, so it might have been brought up before but here's my question: If we're supposing a military attack on CONUS that follows a total economic collapse, how do you expect to support the American military? The military needs fuel for its operations, and it needs heavy equipment and supplies to be replenished. If our country suffers a total economic collapse, how would we pay for foreign purchases of fuel and equipment? I don't think they'd accept our good looks as fair exchange.