Which country would seize when United States of America collapses? - Page 2

Liza · 12-02-2008, 07:52 AM

I think if the old government falls, a new system will be up. I doubt other countries would try to take over USA - because UN and the good guy countries will probably step in. UN and other countries would try to rescue USA before it's considered an epic fail. If this does not work, I think we will revert to the tribal way of living; people would live in communities where they'd have roles to help their communities survive now that they probably can't rely on the government anymore. We'd utilitize weapons and all the civilian military stuff to defend our country against marauders.

I think the system in USA will likely be rethought over since it's not obviously sustaining the US citizens and the stress of modern times well anymore.

**Foxrac** · 12-02-2008, 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

Remember - when it comes to war... it's not fought by how much money you have. The war's won by a steady stream of resources and men needed to fight (fuel, ammo, equipment).

Look at Vietnam. We had money, manpower, and equipment and yet... we lost Vietnam War. British had money, manpower, and equipment and yet.... they lost American Revolution. Nazi had it all... and yet they lost against Russia. Same for Japan against USA. the pattern's always same. It's difficult and costly to sustain a steady stream of supply across the ocean.

We may have foreigners on our American soil and it will be a long, bloody battle. In the end - we'll win.

simple.... because of Obama!

Does Obama will fail to our country? Why?

**Jiro** · 12-02-2008, 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Foxrac

Does Obama will fail to our country? Why?

not me. that would be Maria lol

Byrdie714 · 12-02-2008, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

You want my answer? none. why? because it costs a SIGNIFICANT amount of money, manpower, and equipment to transport that many soldiers to retain a control of USA. Yes the country will control USA but TEMPORARILY. The history has shown this many times.

2 major reasons why seizing USA will be an epic fail:
1. geographical advantage

2. Amendment 2

To answer your question, Jolie...
India? absolutely not. While they have huge numbers of manpower... they lack mindset and especially military infrastructure to seize America. They cannot seize USA without getting seized by Pakistan. Beside India's our friend.

Russia? nope they're not interested at all. They have their own problem to deal with the former USSR countries especially Georgia, Chechnya, Afghanistan, etc... They will attack Russia if Russia sent a significant portion of its military resource on USA.

England? no they're our friend. they will most likely have their own internal problem financially and politically if USA collapses...

Middle East? extraordinary unlikely since their military infrastructure is LAUGHABLE. They don't even have aircraft carrier! How are they going to transport their troops & equipment to USA? Beside - Israel will pound on their ass.

China? Possible but in the end - it will be an epic fail. Most likely scenario to transport significant amount of troops and equipments across the ocean - by using hundred of oil tankers and cargo ships. They will hit the West Coast hard and we will lose 1/4th of USA.

Despite of invasion.... no nuclear war will occur. When you say "USA collapses"..... that means the federal government (White House & D.C.) has collapsed. There is no chain in command. However... the beauty of USA that NO other country has is.....USA has a capability to function as decentralized government... meaning there are 50 states acting independently with their own leaders (Senators/Governor), national guards and citizens. it will no longer be called as United States of America but it'd be simply called as "America". Each state has their own name and flag. Chance is - several states will band together... forming a faction.

It is highly likely that there will be 2-3 factions. The most powerful one will be.... you guess it! Texas! and another faction will most likely be Ohio. Texas has OIL, military, and lands (crops) so this faction will consist of mostly mid-western states while Ohio will control most of Eastern coast. Texas faction will most likely have air & marines superiority while Ohio faction will most likely have naval & army superiority.

The reason why I say it will be an epic fail to seize America is because it is impossible to completely seize USA. Many examples we have seen in history when a nation tried to control numbers of countries -

Hitler - failed
USSR - failed
Roman Empire - failed
Japanese Occupation - failed
British Empire - failed
many more....

God Bless America! that's how much faith I have in America

Interesting and I agree with your post however I think that instead of Texas and Ohio controlling parts of the country--we would end up splitting the United States into different countries sharing common language and the dollar.....

Byrdie714 · 12-02-2008, 08:24 AM

Then again.....we may just re-group.

Brian · 12-02-2008, 08:24 AM

The South won't allow that to happen without a secession.

**Maria** · 12-02-2008, 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

not me. that would be Maria lol

Mrs Bucket · 12-02-2008, 08:48 AM

Bring America over to Canada!

Hear Again · 12-02-2008, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

not me. that would be Maria lol

**Maria** · 12-02-2008, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tousi

I'm with Jiro! Maria, have a little faith!

Who said I have no faith ?

It's the question Jolie created this thread, askin' " Which country would seize when United States of America collapses ? " Does that question sound like a " faith " to you ? Probably not - IMO. It probably could put a " blame " on America citizens for causin' America collapses ?

Of course, there's some " hope " out there, but we will face major problems at the same time, too. I do have faith. Honestly, I am not afraid of anythin'.

Brian · 12-02-2008, 09:19 AM

Just think... Should America ever collapse - Either or both of Canada and the United Kingdom will come to our rescue. They won't let anyone else try to take over.

**Foxrac** · 12-02-2008, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

not me. that would be Maria lol

lol, yup, not surprised about this person said like that since Obama isn't in office yet.

**Foxrac** · 12-02-2008, 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian

Just think... Should America ever collapse - Either or both of Canada and the United Kingdom will come to our rescue. They won't let anyone else try to take over.

Remember, there's other countries are bad economy or poverty, such as Mexico, many countries in South America, South Africa, many countries in Eastern Europe and Asia are poor or bad economy system but they are still here.

Government system and economy system are separated when come in power, however USA is stronger in military power but economy system is really bad for now.

Brian · 12-02-2008, 09:32 AM

Yeah Foxrac. But, the United States is a lot stronger than most countries, who wouldn't want pieces of a stronger country like the United States? Think about it.

**Foxrac** · 12-02-2008, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian

Yeah Foxrac. But, the United States is a lot stronger than most countries, who wouldn't want pieces of a stronger country like the United States? Think about it.

What you means?

jillio · 12-02-2008, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byrdie714

Then again.....we may just re-group.

We've done it before.

**Jiro** · 12-02-2008, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian

Just think... Should America ever collapse - Either or both of Canada and the United Kingdom will come to our rescue. They won't let anyone else try to take over.

that's the thing. When USA government collapses... so will other countries - financially and politically.... which is why I do not think UK or Canada can provide military assistance but humanitarian assistance because we all know USA is "world police." with that superpower country gone..... each country is left to fend off for themselves.

that's why I believe they cannot afford to send their military resource to USA... they have to protect themselves and their national interests first. Just look at the world spending on Defense Budget. Obviously USA ranked #1 in defense spending and not even #2 come closes to it.

World Wide Military Expenditures
1. USA - $623 billion
2. China - $65 billion
3. Russia - $50 billion

something to think about.... the difference in world's military expenditure...

**Jiro** · 12-02-2008, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maria

Honestly, I am not afraid of anythin'.

rly: Didn't you say you're afraid of Obama Administration?

**Jiro** · 12-02-2008, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byrdie714

Interesting and I agree with your post however I think that instead of Texas and Ohio controlling parts of the country--we would end up splitting the United States into different countries sharing common language and the dollar.....

I decided on Texas and Ohio because - during this time of chaos.... it falls on who has the most resource and Texas is it - the oil state. As you know - Texas is pretty dominant in politic which means they have quite a political influence..... USA will most likely be divided in 2 large factions (and some small factions who most likely will team up with either Canada or Mexico) - Texas Union (Republican) and Ohio Union (Democratic).

Ohio is typically famous for Democratic stronghold and is extremely influential in politic as well... which means military will continue to swear its loyalty to de facto "Federal Government" (relocated to Ohio). Military means Virginia (naval), Kentucky (Fort Knox tanks), etc.... that's why I said Ohio will have naval & army superiority while Texas will have marines (mostly national guards & militia) and air force (colorado and other states) superiority.

netrox · 12-02-2008, 11:05 AM

I echo what Jiro's saying. It just won't happen as long as citizens are armed with the Second Amendment.

**Beowulf** · 12-02-2008, 11:06 AM

Let's not forget our strong naval presense in Arizona. Errr, I mean when California slides into the sea. Ummm, coffee anyone?

netrox · 12-02-2008, 11:07 AM

Jiro, even with the fact that we have more money to spend on military, as long as we have Second Amendment, no nation would want to mess with us.

**Jiro** · 12-02-2008, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beowulf

Let's not forget our strong naval presense in Arizona. Errr, I mean when California slides into the sea. Ummm, coffee anyone?

<chuckle> good one.. good one....

Quote:

Originally Posted by netrox

Jiro, even with the fact that we have more money to spend on military, as long as we have Second Amendment, no nation would want to mess with us.

yea point is - we already got what we have... aircraft carriers, submarines, satellites, and thousand mores... Chinese military did try to match our military technology & capability but.... their equipment are of cold war era. They bought most of equipment from Russia but their military technology are about 30 years behind USA. They do not have smart bombs, AC-130 gunships with extremely precise targeting system, advanced weaponry system of fighter jets, etc... All these cool technology..... are not doable without SOFTWARE and that's what Chinese wants to steal.

that's why you keep hearing about serious Chinese espionage and hacking in America and its NATO countries. They're trying to steal our software to make their dumb hardware work like us. the scary thing is.... the Chinese are quickly closing the gap between the military superiority and that frightens me.

jillio · 12-02-2008, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maria

Who said I have no faith ?

It's the question Jolie created this thread, askin' " Which country would seize when United States of America collapses ? " Does that question sound like a " faith " to you ? Probably not - IMO. It probably could put a " blame " on America citizens for causin' America collapses ?

Of course, there's some " hope " out there, but we will face major problems at the same time, too. I do have faith. Honestly, I am not afraid of anythin'.

Except Barack Obama.

And telling us what books you have read about him.

Tousi · 12-02-2008, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maria

Who said I have no faith ?

It's the question Jolie created this thread, askin' " Which country would seize when United States of America collapses ? " Does that question sound like a " faith " to you ? Probably not - IMO. It probably could put a " blame " on America citizens for causin' America collapses ?

Of course, there's some " hope " out there, but we will face major problems at the same time, too. I do have faith. Honestly, I am not afraid of anythin'.

Well, I refuse to answer the OP's question of ".....when the US collapses......" because I refuse to believe in the possibilities. Don't worry, Sniper Tousi will take on your share of the load.

dead money · 12-02-2008, 04:06 PM

I think if the country failed, new territories would be put up and broken down into 2-3 new countries IE: North, South, West. But it would have to be a catastrophic breakdown for that to EVER happen. As strong and advanced as we are compared to the rest of the world theres not much light for any of that to take shape and follow through. And theres about a snowballs chance in hell for another country licking their chops, swooping in, and laying claim to what was once known as America. Like Jiro mentioned, we're just simply too big and even without an army, there would be hell to pay since just about every other citizen is armed. It just wouldnt happen.

Byrdie714 · 12-02-2008, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

I decided on Texas and Ohio because - during this time of chaos.... it falls on who has the most resource and Texas is it - the oil state. As you know - Texas is pretty dominant in politic which means they have quite a political influence..... USA will most likely be divided in 2 large factions (and some small factions who most likely will team up with either Canada or Mexico) - Texas Union (Republican) and Ohio Union (Democratic).

Ohio is typically famous for Democratic stronghold and is extremely influential in politic as well... which means military will continue to swear its loyalty to de facto "Federal Government" (relocated to Ohio). Military means Virginia (naval), Kentucky (Fort Knox tanks), etc.... that's why I said Ohio will have naval & army superiority while Texas will have marines (mostly national guards & militia) and air force (colorado and other states) superiority.

Ohio a Democratic stronghold? You got to be joking?! What have you been drinking?

Secondly how do you reason that Ohio will have naval superiority when it doesn't even border a major ocean? I don't think Canada would appreciate seeing US Navy going through the St Lawrence to get to the Atlantic.

I can understand Ohio swearing its loyalty to de facto "federal government"--but that's all I see-nothing more, nothing less.

IF the country breaks up--we would be different regional countries.

Byrdie714 · 12-02-2008, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beowulf

Let's not forget our strong naval presense in Arizona. Errr, I mean when California slides into the sea. Ummm, coffee anyone?

Don't forget the other western states that have huge Navy ports--Hawai'i(Pearl Harbor); Washington State (Puget Sound Naval Shipyards in Bremerton and Everett)

web730 · 12-02-2008, 04:38 PM

Great ancient civilizations have fallen before... Bayblon, Egypt, Greece, Roman Empire, Aztecs, Incas, and more. While others like Spain, Egypt, and few other powers weakened over the time yet remain in existence now.

However, I agree that it will not happen likely in next ten years or so due to the reasons like jiro and few others explained. Still it doesn't guarantee.

There was an author that studied on ancient civilizations for years and wrote a great book (forgot its title.. read it years ago), but he discovered so many of them were broken down due to vary of factors like greed, boast, immoral, hatred, etc especially with the economical breakdown along.

I also tried to find a great short yet powerful fact (but will try to find it later.. but not from his book) which echoes so much like what America is exactly doing (approaching) as of late so it should consider us Americans more of this danger. It has exactly happened to those great ancient civilizations.

Tousi · 12-02-2008, 04:45 PM

This might be a little off topic but what I think might happen is Canada, USA and Mexico just might merge much like the Euro countries.

12-02-2008, 04:06 PM	#56 (permalink)
dead money Registered User Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 1,492	I think if the country failed, new territories would be put up and broken down into 2-3 new countries IE: North, South, West. But it would have to be a catastrophic breakdown for that to EVER happen. As strong and advanced as we are compared to the rest of the world theres not much light for any of that to take shape and follow through. And theres about a snowballs chance in hell for another country licking their chops, swooping in, and laying claim to what was once known as America. Like Jiro mentioned, we're just simply too big and even without an army, there would be hell to pay since just about every other citizen is armed. It just wouldnt happen. __________________ mike matusow...or god for short.

12-02-2008, 04:38 PM	#59 (permalink)
web730 Registered User Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Florida Posts: 2,271	Great ancient civilizations have fallen before... Bayblon, Egypt, Greece, Roman Empire, Aztecs, Incas, and more. While others like Spain, Egypt, and few other powers weakened over the time yet remain in existence now. However, I agree that it will not happen likely in next ten years or so due to the reasons like jiro and few others explained. Still it doesn't guarantee. There was an author that studied on ancient civilizations for years and wrote a great book (forgot its title.. read it years ago), but he discovered so many of them were broken down due to vary of factors like greed, boast, immoral, hatred, etc especially with the economical breakdown along. I also tried to find a great short yet powerful fact (but will try to find it later.. but not from his book) which echoes so much like what America is exactly doing (approaching) as of late so it should consider us Americans more of this danger. It has exactly happened to those great ancient civilizations. __________________

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12-02-2008, 07:52 AM	#31 (permalink)
Liza Registered User Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Jacksonville Posts: 4,367 Blog Entries: 2	I think if the old government falls, a new system will be up. I doubt other countries would try to take over USA - because UN and the good guy countries will probably step in. UN and other countries would try to rescue USA before it's considered an epic fail. If this does not work, I think we will revert to the tribal way of living; people would live in communities where they'd have roles to help their communities survive now that they probably can't rely on the government anymore. We'd utilitize weapons and all the civilian military stuff to defend our country against marauders. I think the system in USA will likely be rethought over since it's not obviously sustaining the US citizens and the stress of modern times well anymore.

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12-02-2008, 08:24 AM	#35 (permalink)
Byrdie714 Banned Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 8,941	Then again.....we may just re-group.

12-02-2008, 08:24 AM	#36 (permalink)
Brian Registered User Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 4,750	The South won't allow that to happen without a secession.

12-02-2008, 08:48 AM	#38 (permalink)
Mrs Bucket Registered User Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 3,941	Bring America over to Canada!

12-02-2008, 09:19 AM	#41 (permalink)
Brian Registered User Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 4,750	Just think... Should America ever collapse - Either or both of Canada and the United Kingdom will come to our rescue. They won't let anyone else try to take over.

12-02-2008, 09:32 AM	#44 (permalink)
Brian Registered User Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 4,750	Yeah Foxrac. But, the United States is a lot stronger than most countries, who wouldn't want pieces of a stronger country like the United States? Think about it.

12-02-2008, 11:05 AM	#50 (permalink)
netrox Registered User Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 4,780	I echo what Jiro's saying. It just won't happen as long as citizens are armed with the Second Amendment.

12-02-2008, 11:06 AM	#51 (permalink)
Beowulf Premium Member Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 10,514	Let's not forget our strong naval presense in Arizona. Errr, I mean when California slides into the sea. Ummm, coffee anyone?

12-02-2008, 11:07 AM	#52 (permalink)
netrox Registered User Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 4,780	Jiro, even with the fact that we have more money to spend on military, as long as we have Second Amendment, no nation would want to mess with us.

12-02-2008, 04:45 PM	#60 (permalink)
Tousi Registered User Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 15,731	This might be a little off topic but what I think might happen is Canada, USA and Mexico just might merge much like the Euro countries.