Joe the Plumber vs. Colin Powell

**shel90** · 10-26-2008, 03:25 PM

Commentary: Joe the Plumber vs. Colin Powell - CNN.com

NEW YORK (CNN) -- In the last presidential debate, Joe the Plumber took the place of Gen. David Petraeus as John McCain's favorite "my friend."

The previously obscure Joe was mentioned 21 times in the debate, and he and folks like him are the people McCain says he's going to fight for during the rest of the campaign.

The McCain campaign is hoping the issues of taxes and fighting for the little guy can give McCain what the debate did not. He didn't supply the knockout debate performance he needed. He threw some heavy punches, but few landed, and he didn't follow up effectively.

Barack Obama was like the fleet-footed boxer who jabbed and moved deftly and avoided any damage on his march to victory. Though it was McCain's best debate performance, it wasn't enough to make the case that Obama is dangerously inexperienced and untested.

His case was further damaged when President Bush's former secretary of state, Colin Powell, endorsed Obama on Sunday.

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We all know Colin Powell. In addition to his work in the Bush administration, Powell is a retired four-star general, former chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and former White House national security adviser.

He has been one of America's most significant military leaders, and a statesman widely admired across the political spectrum over the last two decades -- a man many thought could have been America's first black president. iReport.com: What do you think about Powell?

His reputation was somewhat damaged when he went before the world to justify the invasion of Iraq on the basis of weapons of mass destruction. I don't know if Secretary Powell knew they weren't there, but he should have known. And he was the one man who could have slowed or stopped the war.

Powell, who has served under Republican and Democratic presidents, became a Republican in recent years but longed for the Republican Party of Nelson Rockefeller. That party doesn't exist and won't again. His endorsement is significant -- if you believe endorsements matter, which I don't -- but it's not unexpected.

The man who will compete with Powell for media attention over the next several days will be Joe the Plumber. Who is he? iReport.com: What do you think of all the attention Joe is getting?

Joe is a real guy living in Toledo, Ohio. He is representative of the millions of hardworking Americans who get up every day and go to work, and raise their kids and contribute to their communities. They are not the Wall Street guys with fancy lifestyles who, when they make bad deals, expect the government to bail them out.

They don't expect anyone to give them anything other than honest work for honest pay. They don't want anybody to "spread the wealth" on them. They don't want other people's money. They want to earn their own. They don't want the government to take too much of their hard-earned money for things they don't want.

The establishment and the elites don't care about Joe or what he thinks. But many working Americans might, because he reflects their thinking. Will it be effective? We have to wait and see, but it is the best strategy McCain's team has had in this campaign. iReport.com: Country song about Joe the Plumber

Sen. Obama raised a record $150 million in September. On Saturday he attracted unheard-of crowds of over 100,000 in St. Louis, Missouri, and 75,000 that night in Kansas City.

He is going into the closing two weeks of the race with the greatest financial campaign resources in U.S. presidential history. He has more enthusiastic supporters and a better ground organization to get voters to the polls on Election Day. That is almost certainly a winning combination. But as the narrowing polls tell us, Obama hasn't closed the sale yet.

Powell's endorsement may make the Washington establishment pause and reflect, but the message of McCain and Joe the Plumber may force ordinary voters to ask some questions:

How can people who don't pay taxes get tax refunds while those that do, get tax increases?

Is an Obama presidency a giant step towards liberal socialism and military weakness?

In this time of severe crisis do we want experience or inexperience?

Obama is the obvious favorite, but with a major assist from his plumber friend, John McCain may get voters to take another look at him. After a problematic and mistake-prone McCain campaign, that's all anyone can ask.

Would you vote for McCain because Joe the Plumber is his "friend"?

Liza · 10-26-2008, 03:29 PM

McCain and his 'token' friends... LOL!

netrox · 10-26-2008, 05:34 PM

McCain is experienced, all right.... with poor judgments, flip flops, and mistakes!

Hear Again · 10-26-2008, 09:16 PM

*Everyone* is McCain's friend.

Like I said, it won't be long before "Joe the Plumber" is a distant memory...

**shel90** · 10-26-2008, 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hear Again

*Everyone* is McCain's friend.

Like I said, it won't be long before "Joe the Plumber" is a distant memory...

jillio · 10-27-2008, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hear Again

*Everyone* is McCain's friend.

Like I said, it won't be long before "Joe the Plumber" is a distant memory...

I bet the IRS doesn't forget him.

Hear Again · 10-27-2008, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

I bet the IRS doesn't forget him.

**Jiro** · 10-27-2008, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

I bet the IRS doesn't forget him.

Breaking News.... Joe the Plumber is now Joe the Prisoner for tax evasion and fraud.

jillio · 10-27-2008, 01:41 PM

Hear Again · 10-27-2008, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

Breaking News.... Joe the Plumber is now Joe the Prisoner for tax evasion and fraud.

:rofl2:

**Reba** · 10-27-2008, 02:12 PM

It's interesting how the liberals criticized the Republicans for not involving the middle class in their campaign, then as soon as one does get involved they pounce all over him.

jillio · 10-27-2008, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

It's interesting how the liberals criticized the Republicans for not involving the middle class in their campaign, then as soon as one does get involved they pounce all over him.

Actually, McCain only brought Joe up as a way to attempt to discredit Obama.

**Jiro** · 10-27-2008, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

Actually, McCain only brought Joe up as a way to attempt to discredit Obama.

If you were to look up BACKFIRE in dictionary.... that is it.

jillio · 10-27-2008, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

If you were to look up BACKFIRE in dictionary.... that is it.

**Liebling:-)))** · 10-27-2008, 03:10 PM

This thread here make me laugh....

Byrdie714 · 10-27-2008, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

Breaking News.... Joe the Plumber is now Joe the Prisoner for tax evasion and fraud.

Try again....it's not the real "Joe the Plumber".

BradB08 · 10-27-2008, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

I bet the IRS doesn't forget him.

He may be a friend of John McCain but he's an enemy to the IRS!

He'll probably show up on a reality show on VH1 years from now with Larry the Cable Guy and other forgotten F-list celebrities.

BradB08 · 10-27-2008, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

It's interesting how the liberals criticized the Republicans for not involving the middle class in their campaign, then as soon as one does get involved they pounce all over him.

Except that this middle class shyster is actually a white-collar tax dodger.

Try again.

**Jiro** · 10-28-2008, 01:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byrdie714

Try again....it's not the real "Joe the Plumber".

do you want me to photoshop it then?

Byrdie714 · 10-28-2008, 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

do you want me to photoshop it then?

Why the 'mad' emoticon?

If you can photoshop it--by means do.

**Reba** · 10-28-2008, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byrdie714

Try again....it's not the real "Joe the Plumber".

Not unless he borrowed plugs from Joe the Biden.

**Reba** · 10-28-2008, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BradB08

Except that this middle class shyster is actually a white-collar tax dodger.

Try again.

How is Joe not middle class?

**Jiro** · 10-28-2008, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byrdie714

Why the 'mad' emoticon?

If you can photoshop it--by means do.

Because I have a McCain Syndrome and I don't like to be corrected.

Byrdie714 · 10-28-2008, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

Because I have a McCain Syndrome and I don't like to be corrected.

How about Election fatigue?

BradB08 · 10-28-2008, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

How is Joe not middle class?

Look him up for yourself. I'll get you started.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...J6JV.DTL&tsp=1

No need to play the "Huh?" game with me. It's a good diversionary tactic and pretty much in line with what Republicans do whenever they're accused of something.

**Jiro** · 10-28-2008, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byrdie714

How about Election fatigue?

**Reba** · 10-28-2008, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BradB08

Look him up for yourself. I'll get you started.

Story of Joe the Plumber springs many leaks

No need to play the "Huh?" game with me. It's a good diversionary tactic and pretty much in line with what Republicans do whenever they're accused of something.

I read your link. It said nothing about Joe being white-collar or not being middle class. Also, just because someone is behind in their taxes and debts doesn't necessarily mean they are intentionally trying to "dodge" their taxes. If anything, Joe's financial problems put him in that economically troubled group of the population that the liberals claim to care about so much.

And talk about grasping at straws--making a big deal about him using his middle name instead of his first name--give me a break.

If anything, that story proved that even with lots of digging (which in itself is pitiful), that's all they could come up with.

I'm not playing a "game" with you. You made an accusation about Joe's status, so I called on you to back it up. If you are secure in your "facts" you shouldn't be bothered by that.

Wokamuka · 10-28-2008, 05:02 PM

I guess McCain was right in that the election was not going to be about the issues.

We're so easily distracted so as to detract from the real issues.

This "Joe the Plumber" phenomenon has gripped America. Those who talk about it are, probably, those who have already made up their minds and need conversation fodder.

BradB08 · 10-28-2008, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

I read your link. It said nothing about Joe being white-collar or not being middle class. Also, just because someone is behind in their taxes and debts doesn't necessarily mean they are intentionally trying to "dodge" their taxes. If anything, Joe's financial problems put him in that economically troubled group of the population that the liberals claim to care about so much.

And talk about grasping at straws--making a big deal about him using his middle name instead of his first name--give me a break.

If anything, that story proved that even with lots of digging (which in itself is pitiful), that's all they could come up with.

I'm not playing a "game" with you. You made an accusation about Joe's status, so I called on you to back it up. If you are secure in your "facts" you shouldn't be bothered by that.

Well we know that he's not a real plumber, his real name isn't Joe and he doesn't like paying taxes.

**Foxrac** · 10-28-2008, 05:57 PM

then Joe the Idiot need move to poor country with less or no tax.

also, if he refuse to pay taxes then he wouldn't quality to run for house of rep due criminal record.

10-26-2008, 03:25 PM	#1 (permalink)
shel90 Let It Snow!!!! Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: A place where crabs are popular Posts: 40,303 Blog Entries: 3	Joe the Plumber vs. Colin Powell Commentary: Joe the Plumber vs. Colin Powell - CNN.com NEW YORK (CNN) -- In the last presidential debate, Joe the Plumber took the place of Gen. David Petraeus as John McCain's favorite "my friend." The previously obscure Joe was mentioned 21 times in the debate, and he and folks like him are the people McCain says he's going to fight for during the rest of the campaign. The McCain campaign is hoping the issues of taxes and fighting for the little guy can give McCain what the debate did not. He didn't supply the knockout debate performance he needed. He threw some heavy punches, but few landed, and he didn't follow up effectively. Barack Obama was like the fleet-footed boxer who jabbed and moved deftly and avoided any damage on his march to victory. Though it was McCain's best debate performance, it wasn't enough to make the case that Obama is dangerously inexperienced and untested. His case was further damaged when President Bush's former secretary of state, Colin Powell, endorsed Obama on Sunday. Don't Miss Colin Powell endorses Barack Obama Rollins: McCain following Hillary's footsteps Rollins: John McCain, turn up the heat In Depth: Commentaries We all know Colin Powell. In addition to his work in the Bush administration, Powell is a retired four-star general, former chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and former White House national security adviser. He has been one of America's most significant military leaders, and a statesman widely admired across the political spectrum over the last two decades -- a man many thought could have been America's first black president. iReport.com: What do you think about Powell? His reputation was somewhat damaged when he went before the world to justify the invasion of Iraq on the basis of weapons of mass destruction. I don't know if Secretary Powell knew they weren't there, but he should have known. And he was the one man who could have slowed or stopped the war. Powell, who has served under Republican and Democratic presidents, became a Republican in recent years but longed for the Republican Party of Nelson Rockefeller. That party doesn't exist and won't again. His endorsement is significant -- if you believe endorsements matter, which I don't -- but it's not unexpected. The man who will compete with Powell for media attention over the next several days will be Joe the Plumber. Who is he? iReport.com: What do you think of all the attention Joe is getting? Joe is a real guy living in Toledo, Ohio. He is representative of the millions of hardworking Americans who get up every day and go to work, and raise their kids and contribute to their communities. They are not the Wall Street guys with fancy lifestyles who, when they make bad deals, expect the government to bail them out. They don't expect anyone to give them anything other than honest work for honest pay. They don't want anybody to "spread the wealth" on them. They don't want other people's money. They want to earn their own. They don't want the government to take too much of their hard-earned money for things they don't want. The establishment and the elites don't care about Joe or what he thinks. But many working Americans might, because he reflects their thinking. Will it be effective? We have to wait and see, but it is the best strategy McCain's team has had in this campaign. iReport.com: Country song about Joe the Plumber Sen. Obama raised a record $150 million in September. On Saturday he attracted unheard-of crowds of over 100,000 in St. Louis, Missouri, and 75,000 that night in Kansas City. He is going into the closing two weeks of the race with the greatest financial campaign resources in U.S. presidential history. He has more enthusiastic supporters and a better ground organization to get voters to the polls on Election Day. That is almost certainly a winning combination. But as the narrowing polls tell us, Obama hasn't closed the sale yet. Powell's endorsement may make the Washington establishment pause and reflect, but the message of McCain and Joe the Plumber may force ordinary voters to ask some questions: How can people who don't pay taxes get tax refunds while those that do, get tax increases? Is an Obama presidency a giant step towards liberal socialism and military weakness? In this time of severe crisis do we want experience or inexperience? Obama is the obvious favorite, but with a major assist from his plumber friend, John McCain may get voters to take another look at him. After a problematic and mistake-prone McCain campaign, that's all anyone can ask. Would you vote for McCain because Joe the Plumber is his "friend"? __________________ "Wine improves with age. The older I get, the better I like it." --- Anonymous

10-27-2008, 03:10 PM	#15 (permalink)
Liebling:-))) Sussi 7.7.86 - 18.6.09 Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Germany Posts: 31,038	This thread here make me laugh.... __________________

10-28-2008, 05:02 PM	#28 (permalink)
Wokamuka Registered User Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: U.S.A. Posts: 1,881	I guess McCain was right in that the election was not going to be about the issues. We're so easily distracted so as to detract from the real issues. This "Joe the Plumber" phenomenon has gripped America. Those who talk about it are, probably, those who have already made up their minds and need conversation fodder. __________________

10-28-2008, 05:57 PM	#30 (permalink)
Foxrac Need Stormtroopers? Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Zaphias Posts: 32,625	then Joe the Idiot need move to poor country with less or no tax. also, if he refuse to pay taxes then he wouldn't quality to run for house of rep due criminal record. __________________ In Moto We Trust

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10-26-2008, 03:29 PM	#2 (permalink)
Liza Registered User Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Jacksonville Posts: 4,367 Blog Entries: 2	McCain and his 'token' friends... LOL!

10-26-2008, 05:34 PM	#3 (permalink)
netrox Registered User Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 4,780	McCain is experienced, all right.... with poor judgments, flip flops, and mistakes!

10-26-2008, 09:16 PM	#4 (permalink)
Hear Again Registered User Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 20,122 Blog Entries: 6	Everyone is McCain's friend. Like I said, it won't be long before "Joe the Plumber" is a distant memory...

10-27-2008, 01:41 PM	#9 (permalink)
jillio Banned Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 60,296

10-27-2008, 02:12 PM	#11 (permalink)
Reba Granny Terp Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: South Carolina Posts: 39,191	It's interesting how the liberals criticized the Republicans for not involving the middle class in their campaign, then as soon as one does get involved they pounce all over him.