Obama - McCain debate #2 - Page 2

Liebling:-))) · 10-08-2008, 09:07 AM

I saw their debate on American TV program (I have 2 Americans programs without subtitles). I cannot say what I think of their debate because there're no subtitles on American TV program... I will know more about this thru German World News with subtitles tonight.

I only want to tell you what I notice their personality/character thru facial and body movement....

It seem to me that Obama is calm, smarter and presidential and answer all of the specific questions. It look like that McCain's talk is too easy for Obama to answer and correct...

Yes, I have read MSNBC and World BBC online newspapers about them and their debate but I rather wait until I see on their TV debate with subtitles myself tonight.

for share your thought after what you saw on their debate on TV. I will see it myself later.

Liebling:-))) · 10-08-2008, 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Foxrac

Yup, I disagree with SimpleMan about Fox news.

CNN is more neutral than Fox news but still have some bias, no worse than Fox news.

Yeah, I noticed something about Fox news and don't bother to read them because it's very biased and conversative newspaper... no neutral on both sides.

Liza · 10-08-2008, 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

What really killed McCain is Obama's excellent and CRYSTAL-CLEAR plan of foreign policy + energy plan + economy plan + national security + Middle East crisis in ALL-IN-ONE package. I was amazed at such simplicity and clarity of his explanation.

Obama Doctrine = Researching & developing alternative energy to reduce our dependence on foreign oil that is largely from Middle East... which means they will be losing money... which means we can have some economical muscle + military on Iran easier than now... and all of above... means more jobs for Americans especially in energy sector (R&D).

The only thing I remember about McCain Doctrine is "terrorism" and "nuclear." The only thing that bothers me about Obama Doctrine is that... while it's a great ambitious idea... I question his experience on it... but because of that 2nd debate - I'm giving him a small reasonable doubt.

I was impressed when Obama explained how our role as peacekeepers could still save money by working with US allies. That just blew me away. Global cooperation is what I feel is in the US's best interests, with finances and the rewards of good fellowship. We do not need bullying and intimidation to coerce cooperation from other countries.

Hmm.. experience... how about education?

Didn't Obama finish grad school at Harvard with honors while McCain finished in the bottom without any notable accomplishment at that naval academy in Annapolis?

Cheri · 10-08-2008, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daredevel7

I think Obama handled the debate better. Also didn't it seem that McCain accused Obama of a lot of things, so Obama had to defend himself a lot? It didn't happen the other way around.

I may be biased, but I was so annoyed by McCain repetitive use of "My friends". I really wished someone in the audience said "I AIN'T YOUR FRIEND!"

But, on a serious note I was annoyed too. And I hate it when he always has to remind us that "I've been a military leader, I know what to do, Obama doesn't"

I have a lot of respect for Tom Brokaw, but to be quite honest, he was terrible! But, I have a strong feeling that Tom and McCain are friends?

Byrdie714 · 10-08-2008, 09:52 AM

The debate was really kinda boring but one thing that REALLY stuck to me was when McCain said this:

"Opening up the health insurance market to more vigorous nationwide competition, as we have done over the last decade in banking, would provide more choices of innovative products less burdened by the worst excesses of state-based regulation."

Uh hello?????? What you did over the last decade with banking is why our economy is in meltdown mode and now you want to take our healthcare there....really intelligent. This man is just scary.

I also hated how everything was I, I , I , I ...I know what to do...I know how to catch Bin Laden, I know how to create peace, I know how to work across both aisles, I know this and I know that....funny thing is he never shares with us what he knows...only that he somehow knows it.

What I found most interesting were the polls afterwards that showed viewers thought McCain was not very likeable or intelligent sounding...I heartily agree. He came off as a sad, angry, little man and Obama looked Presidential

Cheri · 10-08-2008, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byrdie714

I also hated how everything was I, I , I , I ...I know what to do...I know how to catch Bin Laden, I know how to create peace, I know how to work across both aisles, I know this and I know that....funny thing is he never shares with us what he knows...only that he somehow knows it.l

Exactly!!

That annoys me!!

***Jolie77*** · 10-08-2008, 10:04 AM

I watched the Presidential Debate last night. Thank god I did not get any interruptions or distractions this time, haha.

I think Obama just nailed the debate in a cordial way. McCain's body language seems to be showing that he is tense. He kept pacing back and forth with his face being tightened up.

I was taken back of how McCain pointed the finger on Obama.

Obama was stating that if Pakistan was unwilling or unable to take out Osama Bin Laden and the Al Quaeda out, then the US will take up on the act and to take them out. McCain on the other hand was too quick to jump in and to twist things around by claiming that Obama is wanting to put an attack on Pakistan. Obama refuted and said it was never what his intention were. Obama cleared it out by saying that if Pakistan was unable or unwilling, then US should step in to take the act but not to attack Pakistan.

Here is part of the Presidential Transcript from last night that I wanted to show -

Quote:

Hamm: Should the United States respect Pakistani sovereignty and not pursue al Qaeda terrorists who maintain bases there, or should we ignore their borders and pursue our enemies like we did in Cambodia during the Vietnam War?

Obama: Katie, it's a terrific question and we have a difficult situation in Pakistan. I believe that part of the reason we have a difficult situation is because we made a bad judgment going into Iraq in the first place when we hadn't finished the job of hunting down bin Laden and crushing al Qaeda.

So what happened was we got distracted, we diverted resources, and ultimately bin Laden escaped, set up base camps in the mountains of Pakistan in the northwest provinces there.

They are now raiding our troops in Afghanistan, destabilizing the situation. They're stronger now than at any time since 2001. And that's why I think it's so important for us to reverse course, because that's the central front on terrorism.

They are plotting to kill Americans right now. As Secretary Gates, the defense secretary, said, the war against terrorism began in that region and that's where it will end. So part of the reason I think it's so important for us to end the war in Iraq is to be able to get more troops into Afghanistan, put more pressure on the Afghan government to do what it needs to do, eliminate some of the drug trafficking that's funding terrorism.

But I do believe that we have to change our policies with Pakistan. We can't coddle, as we did, a dictator, give him billions of dollars and then he's making peace treaties with the Taliban and militants.

What I've said is we're going to encourage democracy in Pakistan, expand our nonmilitary aid to Pakistan so that they have more of a stake in working with us, but insisting that they go after these militants.

And if we have Osama bin Laden in our sights and the Pakistani government is unable or unwilling to take them out, then I think that we have to act and we will take them out. We will kill bin Laden; we will crush Al Qaeda. That has to be our biggest national security priority.

Brokaw: Sen. McCain?

McCain: Well, Katie (ph), thank you.

You know, my hero is a guy named Teddy Roosevelt. Teddy Roosevelt used to say walk softly -- talk softly, but carry a big stick. Sen. Obama likes to talk loudly.

In fact, he said he wants to announce that he's going to attack Pakistan. Remarkable.

You know, if you are a country and you're trying to gain the support of another country, then you want to do everything you can that they would act in a cooperative fashion.

When you announce that you're going to launch an attack into another country, it's pretty obvious that you have the effect that it had in Pakistan: It turns public opinion against us.

Now, let me just go back with you very briefly. We drove the Russians out with -- the Afghan freedom fighters drove the Russians out of Afghanistan, and then we made a most serious mistake. We washed our hands of Afghanistan. The Taliban came back in, Al Qaeda, we then had the situation that required us to conduct the Afghan war.

Now, our relations with Pakistan are critical, because the border areas are being used as safe havens by the Taliban and Al Qaeda and other extremist organizations, and we have to get their support.

Now, General Petraeus had a strategy, the same strategy -- very, very different, because of the conditions and the situation -- but the same fundamental strategy that succeeded in Iraq. And that is to get the support of the people.

We need to help the Pakistani government go into Waziristan, where I visited, a very rough country, and -- and get the support of the people, and get them to work with us and turn against the cruel Taliban and others.

And by working and coordinating our efforts together, not threatening to attack them, but working with them, and where necessary use force, but talk softly, but carry a big stick.

Obama: Tom, just a...

Brokaw: Sen. McCain...

Obama: ... just a quick follow-up on this. I think...

McCain: If we're going to have follow-ups, then I will want follow-ups, as well.

Brokaw: No, I know. So but I think we get at it...

McCain: It'd be fine with me. It'd be fine with me.

Brokaw: ... if I can, with this question.

Obama: Then let's have one.

Brokaw: All right, let's have a follow-up.

McCain: It'd be fine with me.

Obama: Just -- just -- just a quick follow-up, because I think -- I think this is important.

Brokaw: I'm just the hired help here, so, I mean...

Obama: You're doing a great job, Tom.

Look, I -- I want to be very clear about what I said. Nobody called for the invasion of Pakistan. Sen. McCain continues to repeat this.

What I said was the same thing that the audience here today heard me say, which is, if Pakistan is unable or unwilling to hunt down bin Laden and take him out, then we should.

Now, that I think has to be our policy, because they are threatening to kill more Americans.

Now, Sen. McCain suggests that somehow, you know, I'm green behind the ears and, you know, I'm just spouting off, and he's somber and responsible.

McCain: Thank you very much.

Obama: Sen. McCain, this is the guy who sang, "Bomb, bomb, bomb Iran," who called for the annihilation of North Korea. That I don't think is an example of "speaking softly."

This is the person who, after we had -- we hadn't even finished Afghanistan, where he said, "Next up, Baghdad."

So I agree that we have to speak responsibly and we have to act responsibly. And the reason Pakistan -- the popular opinion of America had diminished in Pakistan was because we were supporting a dictator, Musharraf, had given him $10 billion over seven years, and he had suspended civil liberties. We were not promoting democracy.

This is the kind of policies that ultimately end up undermining our ability to fight the war on terrorism, and it will change when I'm president.

McCain: And, Tom, if -- if we're going to go back and forth, I then -- I'd like to have equal time to go -- to respond to...

Brokaw: Yes, you get the...

McCain: ... to -- to -- to...

Brokaw: ... last word here, and then we have to move on.

McCain: Not true. Not true. I have, obviously, supported those efforts that the United States had to go in militarily and I have opposed that I didn't think so.

I understand what it's like to send young American's in harm's way. I say -- I was joking with a veteran -- I hate to even go into this. I was joking with an old veteran friend, who joked with me, about Iran.

But the point is that I know how to handle these crises. And Sen. Obama, by saying that he would attack Pakistan, look at the context of his words. I'll get Osama bin Laden, my friends. I'll get him. I know how to get him.

I'll get him no matter what and I know how to do it. But I'm not going to telegraph my punches, which is what Sen. Obama did. And I'm going to act responsibly, as I have acted responsibly throughout my military career and throughout my career in the United States Senate.

And we have fundamental disagreements about the use of military power and how you do it, and you just saw it in response to previous questions.

I just thought that part of the debate was taken back when McCain was trying to make it look like it was worse than it really is.

If anyone wants to read the transcript, Here it is - Transcript of second McCain, Obama debate - CNN.com

Foxrac · 10-08-2008, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liebling:-)))

Yeah, I noticed something about Fox news and don't bother to read them because it's very biased and conversative newspaper... no neutral on both sides.

Does Germany have Fox news on TV or you just read online? Just wonders.

Liebling:-))) · 10-08-2008, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Foxrac

Does Germany have Fox news on TV or you just read online? Just wonders.

No, we do not have Fox news here in Germany but English online. We have different German newspapers...

If I want to read English then use online newspapers... I depend on World BBC, MSNBC and German Welle.

I have read Fox News and do not like it because of one sided and conversative - no neutral on both side.

Liebling:-))) · 10-08-2008, 10:25 AM

for post interesting link, Jolie...

It seem to me that McCain moviate when he hear "war"... All what his moviation is only military, wars and victory.... He is only interest in victory ...

***Jolie77*** · 10-08-2008, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liebling:-)))

for post interesting link, Jolie...

It seem to me that McCain moviate when he hear "war"... All what his moviation is only military, wars and victory.... He is only interest in victory ...

You're welcome.

I wanted to point out that even though the idea was there but it is not always implemented.

Jiro · 10-08-2008, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byrdie714

The debate was really kinda boring but one thing that REALLY stuck to me was when McCain said this:

"Opening up the health insurance market to more vigorous nationwide competition, as we have done over the last decade in banking, would provide more choices of innovative products less burdened by the worst excesses of state-based regulation."

Uh hello?????? What you did over the last decade with banking is why our economy is in meltdown mode and now you want to take our healthcare there....really intelligent. This man is just scary.

I also hated how everything was I, I , I , I ...I know what to do...I know how to catch Bin Laden, I know how to create peace, I know how to work across both aisles, I know this and I know that....funny thing is he never shares with us what he knows...only that he somehow knows it.

What I found most interesting were the polls afterwards that showed viewers thought McCain was not very likeable or intelligent sounding...I heartily agree. He came off as a sad, angry, little man and Obama looked Presidential

I liked that rating monitor in CNN which was observing Ohio study group. The rating was FLAT as a dead horse to most of his responses. The rating was rising and RISING to the roof as Obama speaks. I really liked the format of debate #2. That just raised my confidence level on Obama even though - like what Reba said... he's too liberal for my taste but...... I'll manage for 4 more years

jillio · 10-08-2008, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byrdie714

The debate was really kinda boring but one thing that REALLY stuck to me was when McCain said this:

"Opening up the health insurance market to more vigorous nationwide competition, as we have done over the last decade in banking, would provide more choices of innovative products less burdened by the worst excesses of state-based regulation."

Uh hello?????? What you did over the last decade with banking is why our economy is in meltdown mode and now you want to take our healthcare there....really intelligent. This man is just scary.
I also hated how everything was I, I , I , I ...I know what to do...I know how to catch Bin Laden, I know how to create peace, I know how to work across both aisles, I know this and I know that....funny thing is he never shares with us what he knows...only that he somehow knows it.

What I found most interesting were the polls afterwards that showed viewers thought McCain was not very likeable or intelligent sounding...I heartily agree. He came off as a sad, angry, little man and Obama looked Presidential

Exactly. Doing the same thing and expecting different results is the true definition of insanity!

Jiro · 10-08-2008, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jolie77

I watched the Presidential Debate last night. Thank god I did not get any interruptions or distractions this time, haha.

I think Obama just nailed the debate in a cordial way. McCain's body language seems to be showing that he is tense. He kept pacing back and forth with his face being tightened up.

I was taken back of how McCain pointed the finger on Obama.

Obama was stating that if Pakistan was unwilling or unable to take out Osama Bin Laden and the Al Quaeda out, then the US will take up on the act and to take them out. McCain on the other hand was too quick to jump in and to twist things around by claiming that Obama is wanting to put an attack on Pakistan. Obama refuted and said it was never what his intention were. Obama cleared it out by saying that if Pakistan was unable or unwilling, then US should step in to take the act but not to attack Pakistan.

Here is part of the Presidential Transcript from last night that I wanted to show -

I just thought that part of the debate was taken back when McCain was trying to make it look like it was worse than it really is.

If anyone wants to read the transcript, Here it is - Transcript of second McCain, Obama debate - CNN.com

McCain says "i know how to handle this, my friend..." and waved his finger at Obama, shaming him about "attacking" Pakistan. Huh.... that's funny.... and this is the man who said regarding Iran-Israel conflict - "We obviously would not wait for the United Nations Security Council...... Now, Sen. Obama without precondition wants to sit down and negotiate with them, without preconditions."....... as in "fuck UN! Bomb Bomb Bomb Iran!"

jillio · 10-08-2008, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jolie77

I watched the Presidential Debate last night. Thank god I did not get any interruptions or distractions this time, haha.

I think Obama just nailed the debate in a cordial way. McCain's body language seems to be showing that he is tense. He kept pacing back and forth with his face being tightened up.

I was taken back of how McCain pointed the finger on Obama.

Obama was stating that if Pakistan was unwilling or unable to take out Osama Bin Laden and the Al Quaeda out, then the US will take up on the act and to take them out. McCain on the other hand was too quick to jump in and to twist things around by claiming that Obama is wanting to put an attack on Pakistan. Obama refuted and said it was never what his intention were. Obama cleared it out by saying that if Pakistan was unable or unwilling, then US should step in to take the act but not to attack Pakistan.

Here is part of the Presidential Transcript from last night that I wanted to show -

I just thought that part of the debate was taken back when McCain was trying to make it look like it was worse than it really is.

If anyone wants to read the transcript, Here it is - Transcript of second McCain, Obama debate - CNN.com

Thanks for that portion of the transcript and the link. Obama's answers give solutions, and the give explanations of why it will work. McCain's answers are nothing more than stringing the same old words together with no solution mixed in at all. His words may sound pretty, but they are empty when it comes to solutions for the many crises the U.S. is in.

jillio · 10-08-2008, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

McCain says "i know how to handle this, my friend..." and waved his finger at Obama, shaming him about "attacking" Pakistan. Huh.... that's funny.... and this is the man who said regarding Iran-Israel conflict - "We obviously would not wait for the United Nations Security Council...... Now, Sen. Obama without precondition wants to sit down and negotiate with them, without preconditions."....... as in "fuck UN! Bomb Bomb Bomb Iran!"

You know, I watched the debate last night with several friends. One of them was a woman who immigrated here from Afghanistan several years ago when Germany was invading the country. She grew up in a palace, her father was an extremely influential and successful businessman. She and all 20 of her brothers and sisters were taken out of the country under cover to protect their safety. She has always been very politically aware and politically active regarding the situations in the Middle East. Following her and her siblings escape from Afghanistan, they spent 2 years living in a refugee camp before they were allowed to immigrate. Some of them are in the U.S., some of them are in Canada. They are all educated, successful and law abiding. Who is she voting for? Obama. She has intimate knowledge of the cultural and military situation in the middle east, and it is her opinion that McCain has no idea what he is dealing with in the region, nor did Bush.

And she is not basing her opinion on knowledge from several years ago. She returns to Afghanistan on a yearly basis to visit with her father. She believes, and I have spoken to others who are from the Middle East who adamantly agree, that Obama holds the most viable solution for ending this crisis, and for finally doing what we started out to do in the beginning...capturing Osama Bin Laden.

Just thought I'd thow that in.

Jiro · 10-08-2008, 12:28 PM

wait what? Germany invaded Afghanistan??

jillio · 10-08-2008, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

wait what? Germany invaded Afghanistan??

The invasion was never completed, but it was threatened.

Jiro · 10-08-2008, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

The invasion was never completed, but it was threatened.

ah... at least Germany acted with prudence.....

***Jolie77*** · 10-08-2008, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

McCain says "i know how to handle this, my friend..." and waved his finger at Obama, shaming him about "attacking" Pakistan. Huh.... that's funny.... and this is the man who said regarding Iran-Israel conflict - "We obviously would not wait for the United Nations Security Council...... Now, Sen. Obama without precondition wants to sit down and negotiate with them, without preconditions."....... as in "fuck UN! Bomb Bomb Bomb Iran!"

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

Thanks for that portion of the transcript and the link. Obama's answers give solutions, and the give explanations of why it will work. McCain's answers are nothing more than stringing the same old words together with no solution mixed in at all. His words may sound pretty, but they are empty when it comes to solutions for the many crises the U.S. is in.

You know, That's what makes it interesting. With both of them pointing the fingers at each other, Obama was able to refute his statement while McCain seemingly to be the one that was jumping around in the circle.

As for the Iran thing, McCain only yet was too quick to jump in and to say that but I don't see how he was able to refute on it or to valid his stance in that debate.

To make it simple, Obama was able to make a layout and to direct it while McCain was just beating around the bush or rather, stretching the truth to nowhere.

Jiro · 10-08-2008, 12:38 PM

Royale · 10-08-2008, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

wait what? Germany invaded Afghanistan??

I think she meant Soviet Union. They invaded Afghanistan in December 1979 in order to prop up the communist government there.

Liebling:-))) · 10-08-2008, 12:51 PM

10-08-2008, 09:07 AM	#31 (permalink)
Liebling:-))) Merry Xmas Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Germany Posts: 27,370	I saw their debate on American TV program (I have 2 Americans programs without subtitles). I cannot say what I think of their debate because there're no subtitles on American TV program... I will know more about this thru German World News with subtitles tonight. I only want to tell you what I notice their personality/character thru facial and body movement.... It seem to me that Obama is calm, smarter and presidential and answer all of the specific questions. It look like that McCain's talk is too easy for Obama to answer and correct... Yes, I have read MSNBC and World BBC online newspapers about them and their debate but I rather wait until I see on their TV debate with subtitles myself tonight. for share your thought after what you saw on their debate on TV. I will see it myself later. __________________

10-08-2008, 10:25 AM	#40 (permalink)
Liebling:-))) Merry Xmas Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Germany Posts: 27,370	for post interesting link, Jolie... It seem to me that McCain moviate when he hear "war"... All what his moviation is only military, wars and victory.... He is only interest in victory ... __________________

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10-08-2008, 09:52 AM	#35 (permalink)
Byrdie714 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Pacific County, Washington Posts: 5,751	The debate was really kinda boring but one thing that REALLY stuck to me was when McCain said this: "Opening up the health insurance market to more vigorous nationwide competition, as we have done over the last decade in banking, would provide more choices of innovative products less burdened by the worst excesses of state-based regulation." Uh hello?????? What you did over the last decade with banking is why our economy is in meltdown mode and now you want to take our healthcare there....really intelligent. This man is just scary. I also hated how everything was I, I , I , I ...I know what to do...I know how to catch Bin Laden, I know how to create peace, I know how to work across both aisles, I know this and I know that....funny thing is he never shares with us what he knows...only that he somehow knows it. What I found most interesting were the polls afterwards that showed viewers thought McCain was not very likeable or intelligent sounding...I heartily agree. He came off as a sad, angry, little man and Obama looked Presidential

10-08-2008, 12:28 PM	#47 (permalink)
Jiro YOU DOMESTIC DISSENT! Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: NJ Posts: 8,954	wait what? Germany invaded Afghanistan??

10-08-2008, 12:38 PM	#51 (permalink)
Jiro YOU DOMESTIC DISSENT! Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: NJ Posts: 8,954

10-08-2008, 12:51 PM	#53 (permalink)
Liebling:-))) Merry Xmas Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Germany Posts: 27,370