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Unread 03-06-2009, 03:19 PM   #31 (permalink)
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So what some of you guys saying???

I am trying to get a clear picture of this.

South Africa is trying to get the blacks to control their own country, And by doing that they are ridding of the white people? Or are they trying to rid of the white people controlling their country by dictatorship?

Correct me if I am wrong.
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Unread 03-06-2009, 04:02 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Banjo View Post
South Africa is a hellhole these days. Nobody in their right mind would go there. It's amazing how people go ga-ga over Mandela while turning a blind eye to what is going on in that country these days. It is much, much worse than it used to be.

South Africa was handed over to a different person other than Mandela years ago and he's not any better either. It's not getting any better either.
I went to South Africa last Sept. Specifically Johannesburg, Kruger National Park, and Cape Town. I wouldn't call it a "HELL HOLE". It is relatively safe... if you stay in the "white part" of the town. The racial segregation is so blatantly obvious.

About the white farmers being attacked... it reminded me of the movie, The Birth of a Nation, it's from 1915. It's about how KKK started in order to "save" the women from the freed "angry scary black people". It's ridiculously racist, but it does have a point. When you do something as horrible as slavery/apartheid, it's not as simple to just end it, and everything goes right again. There will be major repercussions.
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Unread 03-06-2009, 04:06 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Daredevel7 View Post
I went to South Africa last Sept. Specifically Johannesburg, Kruger National Park, and Cape Town. I wouldn't call it a "HELL HOLE". It is relatively safe... if you stay in the "white part" of the town. The racial segregation is so blatantly obvious.

About the white farmers being attacked... it reminded me of the movie, The Birth of a Nation, it's from 1915. It's about how KKK started in order to "save" the women from the freed "angry scary black people". It's ridiculously racist, but it does have a point. When you do something as horrible as slavery/apartheid, it's not as simple to just end it, and everything goes right again. There will be major repercussions.
Ah,yes! The myth of the "big, black buck!" If it weren't a sad, sad part of this country's history, it would be comical.

And you are correct that situations like slavery and apartheid are not corrected simply by reversing the policy. It takes much more to get rid of the attitudes that were behind the policy, as well as the repercussions of having created an oppressed class of people.
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Unread 03-06-2009, 07:40 PM   #34 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Banjo View Post
South Africa is a hellhole these days. Nobody in their right mind would go there. It's amazing how people go ga-ga over Mandela while turning a blind eye to what is going on in that country these days. It is much, much worse than it used to be.

South Africa was handed over to a different person other than Mandela years ago and he's not any better either. It's not getting any better either.
its been a hell hole for decades mate, only fools thought mandela and co was the answer, it was a western thing that put him up there, even in peace(or so called) we try to dictate the pace, we never learn. and africa is poorer for it ;(
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Unread 03-06-2009, 08:11 PM   #35 (permalink)
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its been a hell hole for decades mate, only fools thought mandela and co was the answer, it was a western thing that put him up there, even in peace(or so called) we try to dictate the pace, we never learn. and africa is poorer for it ;(
Ethnocentrism at its finest.
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Unread 03-06-2009, 08:27 PM   #36 (permalink)
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I'd like to mention that support for communism does not necessarily make one "bad". A lot of people are under the assumption that Fidel Castro set up a communist country. Uhh.. it's NOT a communist country at all. Communism is a naive idea, and applying it usually makes the country lean towards dictatorship, which is exactly what happened to Cuba.

However, Nelson Mandela did support Fidel himself, and that is a major red flag for me....

I understand why people are against the idea of glorifying Mandela (due to his lack of useful action during his Presidency), but didn't he play a big role in ending apartheid? Unfortunately, I think ending apartheid is one of those situations where you know it's gonna hurt like hell, but you HAVE to pull the band-aid.....
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Unread 03-07-2009, 07:52 PM   #37 (permalink)
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Thousands of North Koreans escaped North Koreans and not a single South Korean migrated to North Korea
Thousands of Cuba escaped from Cuba the last 30 years and maybe like 10 black revolutionaries migrate to Cuba for safety for their "criminal actions"
Thousands of Vietnamese escape from Vietnam which still rededucated and imprisoned former South Vietnamese.
all this are detailed at Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International, surprisingly.

And when U.S. companies left South Africa in the 1980s due to the Sullivan act and pressure from Transafrica, the black South Africa unemployment rate went up the roof....


Quote:
Originally Posted by Daredevel7 View Post
I'd like to mention that support for communism does not necessarily make one "bad". A lot of people are under the assumption that Fidel Castro set up a communist country. Uhh.. it's NOT a communist country at all. Communism is a naive idea, and applying it usually makes the country lean towards dictatorship, which is exactly what happened to Cuba.

However, Nelson Mandela did support Fidel himself, and that is a major red flag for me....

I understand why people are against the idea of glorifying Mandela (due to his lack of useful action during his Presidency), but didn't he play a big role in ending apartheid? Unfortunately, I think ending apartheid is one of those situations where you know it's gonna hurt like hell, but you HAVE to pull the band-aid.....
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Unread 03-07-2009, 11:46 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by DURAY View Post
Thousands of North Koreans escaped North Koreans and not a single South Korean migrated to North Korea
Thousands of Cuba escaped from Cuba the last 30 years and maybe like 10 black revolutionaries migrate to Cuba for safety for their "criminal actions"
Thousands of Vietnamese escape from Vietnam which still rededucated and imprisoned former South Vietnamese.
all this are detailed at Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International, surprisingly.

And when U.S. companies left South Africa in the 1980s due to the Sullivan act and pressure from Transafrica, the black South Africa unemployment rate went up the roof....
I was just saying that there is a difference between the "idea" of Communism and attempt for Communism, because simply Communism DOES NOT WORK, and ends up in horrible results, as you stated above.
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Unread 03-08-2009, 03:29 AM   #39 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Banjo View Post
South Africa is a hellhole these days. Nobody in their right mind would go there. It's amazing how people go ga-ga over Mandela while turning a blind eye to what is going on in that country these days. It is much, much worse than it used to be.

South Africa was handed over to a different person other than Mandela years ago and he's not any better either. It's not getting any better either.
It's actually possible to enter johanessburg and survive.. Many of my friends stay in SA for months during the european winter coming back with with good memories.

SA has been through a bloody colonization, followed by a perverted era of apartheid, and now south africa is fighting poverty, crime and corruption, but they are still alive!

The "Mandela myth" you are talking about, is mostly propaganda from Afrikaans, an extremely conservative and christian minority that ruled SA before Mandela.

The white house have told north americans that Castro, Yasser, Gaddafi are evil and gruesome statesmen. It becomes a logic problem when a "hero" like Mandela are going very well along with those statesmen. This logical problem is solved when one read propaganda from Afrikaans.
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Unread 03-10-2009, 06:52 PM   #40 (permalink)
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Ethnocentrism at its finest.

lol just saw your response, so I apoligise for the delay,

perhaps youre right, or perhaps I see it as a knock on effect that will filter through the continent, rather than the unrest that filters through africa now, the individual countries are irrellevant, could you see this happening in the US or Europe< I point blank refuse to pinpoint,target or blame any country in such in a dysfunctional continent, second only to the middle east, but less dangerous to us.
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Unread 03-15-2009, 09:24 AM   #41 (permalink)
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If you think talking crap about a frail old man is going to give your movement credence, then you are sadly mistaken.

Would you prefer that South African had remained under apartheid? Is that what you prefer?

Black South Africans were angry over decades of control from white politicians in that country. It was THEIR country and a bunch of foreigners were trapping them in THEIR country. I would be pissed off as well. Doesn't justify any violence but you have to understand where people are coming from when they react the way they do.
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Unread 03-15-2009, 12:32 PM   #42 (permalink)
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If you think talking crap about a frail old man is going to give your movement credence, then you are sadly mistaken.

Would you prefer that South African had remained under apartheid? Is that what you prefer?

Black South Africans were angry over decades of control from white politicians in that country. It was THEIR country and a bunch of foreigners were trapping them in THEIR country. I would be pissed off as well. Doesn't justify any violence but you have to understand where people are coming from when they react the way they do.
Movement? Please, let's just stick to the facts. He isn't a saint like the media has portrayed him to be.

A man named Harry who moved to Canada opened my eyes to what went on behind the scenes in South Africa. After that, I started looking into it. Turn out he wasn't pulling my leg. In fact, there are a good number of refugees here in Canada from South Africa because of everything that has happened over there.

Heck, the government of Canada even banned the ex-wife of Mandela from entering the country due to her terrorist background.

For a good read...

"When the Loerie Sings Again"...

http://members.shaw.ca/loerie/Loerie_US1.pdf

It's a long read, but worth it if you want to learn a few things.
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